[#21083] Bernt Andreas Berntsen. Hva og hvor hen,USA Kansje

[Gjest Sigbjørn Sandsmark]

Bernt Andreas vokste opp i Bakke Vest Agder og er utmelt til USA 1880,Lenke neste spor er julekort sendt fra Sirnes i Bakke Nov 21 1938 til hans bror John Benson Aurora ILL usa. Da var han en gammel mann og skriver følgende: Sender dig en hilsen Tak for Brevet jeg fik Er fremdeles i Norge blir her over vinteren.Skal hilse fra A.Rannestad. God Jul og et godt Nytt aar. B.Andreas. Denne A.Rannestad tror jeg var en barndomsvenn. Familien i ILL har ikke funnet flere spor,og jeg tror ikke han oppholdt seg i Bakke vinteren 1938. Der var muligens familie i Mandal da han hadde en tante der. Er det mulig å finne flere spor? Sig---

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

Sig, can you restate this in English? I see a John, d Dec 2, 1939 in Aurora; has this been looked up on lds film? Does he have brothers, born Jan 1870 and Feb 1868? Roger.

[Gjest Sigbjørn Sandsmark]

Bernt Andreas Berntsen b,sept18,1856 grew up in Bakke Vest Agder and left for America in 1880-next link is the x-mascard. He wrote.I am still in Norway and will be staying here through the Winter. A.Rannestad told me to say hello. Merry Christmas and happy nev year.Is it possible to find more traces after Bernt? Sig---

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

Perhaps. I need to be clear about how John Benson relates to Bernt. Do you know when/where/parents of John? Do you know the parents of Bernt? I'am not sure of the name Bernt used here, what do you think? ..i believe that finding John may lead to Bernt..i see a John born ca 1859, in various census, i could benefit from any further info about John. Roger.

[Gjest Sigbjørn Sandsmark]

Family: Father Bernt Tobias Larsen Sandsmark-b Sept5.1825 at Mjåsund ,d,1881. Mother: Anne Larsdatter Bergum (N Aurdal)- b.aug 10-1825,d 1905-1906 USA. Siblings: BERNT ANDREAS BERNTSEN b,Sep 18,1856. Lars Tobias Berntsen-b,Sep 1858.d,1909 USA. Ludvig Berntsen -b,1860, drowned Feb 1869. Gabriel Berntsen-b,Apr 1863,d,Des 1952 (USA) Johan Berntsen -b,Jun 30,d Jan 20.1941.Johan (aka John Bentson in USA)and his mother emigrrated to USA .on Okt 1885 from Kristiansand to Chicago,Il where John became a successful steel cabinet manfacturer in Aurora,Il.Bernt Andreas was 82 years old when he wrote the postcard.I can t find a death record for him,-but it was probatly befor 1950-and possibly between Jan 1939 and Jan 1941 because he wasent mentioned as survivor in Jons obtuary then. Sig---

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

Mostly, i just have more questions: about Anne --did she die in the US? when/where?--if so, finding her might locate her son; where are Gabriel and Inga(if i get it right) buried? Did Gab marry again? Which paper had John's obit? Roger.

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

...and did Bernt ever marry? Roger.

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

This week i will lookup John's cert; shows age 72 in the index; it seems he 'subtracted' about 13 years! ..and i will lookup his marr to Hulda Johnson, the lic is dated 9-9-1887, #118132. Gab's is to Minnie Eckert, 12-4-1884, #87854, she dies after at least 1 child and he remarries and has more kids, but what do you know already? Ingeborg Berntsen dies 1935-08-15-i will lookup to see if that is wife #2. ..and i will lookup Ben Benson, d 1940-10-27, he seems the only possible in the index, given the dates. As you may know, John is a Benson in several census; but was a Bentson on his marr lic. Roger.

[Gjest Joy Cottrell]

I am trying to find information about Bernt Andreas Berntsen, who was born 18 Sep 1856 in Haugesund and grew up at Mjåsund farm in Bakke, VEst-Agder.Bernt Andreas was the son of Bernt Tobias and Anne Larsen. He was the oldest child followed by Lars Tobias (1858), Ludvig (1860), Gabriel (1853), Ingeborg (1866) and John (1868. John Bentson was my great grandfather.I have an udflyttede record showing that Bernt Andreas signed out of Bakke parish on 26 Apr 1880, but I have never been able to find the date he left or the boat he took. My 89-year-old aunt doesn't remember any family members talk about Bernt Andreas, except to say that he was the only brother who stayed in Norway.Since nothing is known about Bernt Andreas (his occupation, marital status, where he lived, when he died), I can only assume that he may have traveled back and forth from Norway.Gabriel Bentson wrote a book about his life and family, but never mentioned Bernt Andreas. Gabe traveled to Norway, arriving in Oslo on 29 Aug 1933 and he spent 3 weeks there. He sailed on the Stavangerfjord and arrived back in NY on 22 Sep 1933. The only thing he mentioned about his trip is that most of the people he knew and grew up with when he lived in Norway were dead, and living in their farmhouses were their children or grandchildren whom he didn't know. He never once mentioned his brother, Bernt Andreas.Iohn Bentson took his only trip back to Norway in the Summer of 1928, supposedly to see his brother. He never talked much about his trip to Norway and I don't know if he did get to see his brother (perhaps he was out of the country).I know that Bernt Andreas Berntsen was alive in 1938 (he was 82 then) becaus he wrote a postcard to John saying that he was in Norway and would be spending the winter there. It was postmarked Sirnes.John Bentson died in a car accident on 20 Jan 1941 but only Gabriel was mentioned as a surviving sibling. Perhaps it was an oversight since no one knew much about Bernt Andreas or maybe it was Bernt Andreas died between 1939-1941. If Bernt Andreas ever did live in the U.S., it probably wasn't in Illinois, where his mother and brothers lived, or the family would have mentioned him.I have never been able to find a death date for Bernt Andreas' mother (Anne Larsen Quarnstrom -- she was married a second time in Michigan for 7 years), although I believe that she died while living with John Bentson in 1905 or 1906, or for Lars Tobias Bentson, a baker who also lived with John Bentson in 1905 in Congress Park, IL. I believe that Lars died in 1909.Anne Larsen (and probably Lars too) are supposedly buried in Forest Home Cemetery or Concordia Lutheran Cemetery in LaGrange, IL. In the mid 1950s, 2,500 graves were moved tfor the construction of the Eisenhower Expressway. The family was notified and was upset. When they checked with the cemetery office a few months later, the people had lost her records.John Bentson is buried in Spring Lake Cemetery in Aurora, IL in the Bentson family plot with the rest of the Bentson family.Any help or suggestions for finding information about Bernt Andreas Berntsen would be greatly appreciated.

[Gjest Sigbjørn Sandsmark]

Finner ikke Bernt Andreas i passasjerlistene til Den Norske Amerikalinjen 1939,kan han ha reist med en annen båt? Ikke funnet gravlagt i Bakke eller Flekkefjord,men det er alt vi vet. Er det noen gode ider om hvor vi skal lete?Det er ikke noen som husker han her i Bakke og her er heller ikke noe nær slekt. Mvh Sig---

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

I'am inclined to believe the aunts version about Bernt; when he 'signed out' -- was a destination mentioned? Could it be elsewhere in Norway? Has he been found in the 1900 Norway census? Congress Park is now part of Brookfield. I called both Concordia and Forest Home, no luck. Concordia is actually in Forest Park; across the expressway to the north. About 1500 were moved into Concordia; we need a person 'moved to' list. I will ask around. I see an unknown Bentson in an index, d 6-16-1909; is that your Lars lead? Why 1909? I could try to find him in the city books, i suspose. I see an Anna Berntson, d 9-11-1906; is that your guess also? What's needed is an obit hunt in all the Chicago and 'Brookfield' area papers of the day. Roger.

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

Hi--forgot to mention that i found Anne living with Gabriel(born 1863, not 53 typo) in the 1900 census, and her birth info was Aug 1833, age 67; has her birth church book entry been found? and, if found, was her name just Anne? Roger.

[Gjest Sigbjørn Sandsmark]

Bernt signed out 1880 destinasjon USA,not found in 1900 census in Norway. Gabriel born: April 15.1863.

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

Hmmm, he says; vell..do you have access to the 1900 census? If so, please see Bendon Bentson, 44, in Garfield Co, Colorado; his age is 'off' by 1 month, that could be his bap month, i suspose. In a later census i see him, slightly different name, in Summit county. But...how in the world to verify that!!!! ..by 82 he is retired, and can be living anywhere, he might have summered in the 'south' of Norway!! He might appear in that 'deaths in Norway' whenever they post the proper years.. Roger. ps.. i suggest someone write a very formal letter to Forest Home, seeking access to whatever 'checklist' that must have been created at the time: plans often change, so they could be another section of the same cemetery or an entirely different one(not Concordia). ..be sure they check Waldheim records also..because they merged and the records are kept separate to this day(and people incorrectly started using Forest Home rather than Wald..) and are not in a computer system (an uff, methinks). pps...if such a list must be inspected in person..to look at the whole list...because typos happen...i could do that, if someone in the family makes prior arrangements.

[Gjest Joy Cottrell]

Roger, I'd like to comment on your last post to answer some of your questions.You mentioned a listing for an 'Unknown' Bentson in an index showing he died 6-16-1909 (Lars?). What index was that? I didn't find it in the IL Pre-1915 Death Index. I did find an Anna Berntson and the date certainly could be her (maybe she went by Bentson instead of Anne Larsen -- hard to say).The only thing is that the age is way off (unless there's a typo).In the Pre-1916 Death List, there are two that are mine: 'Uknown' BEntson (actually Bernard) (d. 6-25-1888) and Charles W. Bentson (d. 6-30-1893). They both belonged to John and Hulda Bentson.In the 1900 census for Gabriel Bentson, Anne is listed there, but her birth year is incorrect. She was born ANNE (not Anne, but she was almost always listed as Anna) LASEN on 8-10-1825. I've notice that her age (or birth year) seems to be different depending on which document you look at. On her marriage license, she fudged a few years too, but the dates are not necessarily the same. My aunt said that the Berntsen women never told their ages and frequently lied about them, so guess it's just a family flaw!Lars Bentson and Anne Larsen are not listed in the Chicago city directory, not only because they just lived with John and Hulda at 220 Arthur Avenue (later 3939 Arthur Avenue) in Congress Park, IL, but because Chicago claims they didn't list people who lived in Congress Park (aka Brookfield) == although they did list Signe Bentson as living in Congress Park in 1910, but not John Bentson (and he was the one who owned the house). Apparently Brookfield put out their own directory. The problem is that no one has the city directories -- except, I believe, that the Brookfield Historical Society at least has a 1905 directory and then some later ones after the family had moved to Aurora (1911).You also mentioned checking the Brookfield newspapers for Anne Larsen and Lars Bentson's obits. That was my thought too. However, the newspaper that existed at that time (1905) was called the Suburban Magnet and I have found no one who has copies of this newspaper. I think Newberry Library has nothing before 1920 or so, U. of I. (Champaign-Urbana) doesn't have that year either, nor have a few other places that I have tried.Apparently the only place that has the 1905 directory and MIGHT have the Suburban Magnet newspaper for that time period is the Brookfield Historical Society (I believe that I was told this by John Krause at the Brookfield Public Library). I have written two letters in the past 12 months to the BHS and I have tried to call a few times (I only got a recording), but have never received an answer from them. I have been trying to find someone who lives in the Brookfield area who could at least tell me what holdings they have there and maybe do a search for Anne and Lars' obits, but no one responded to that either. I think that finding their obits may be the only way of finding their death dates and burial places, but they don't answer letters or phone calls I guess.My other attempt to find their death records or obits centered on finding the closest Lutheran church to where they lived in Congress Park. When I contacted the church (I can't remember the name off the top of my head, but it might have been Grace Lutheran), they said the baptism and death pages were missing from their book for the 1900-1910 time period. So I didn't get very fair then either.You mentioned a 'moved to' list for Forest Home and Concordia cemeteries, but so far I haven't found too many knowledgeable people there.Today I made 3 long distance phone calls to the cemeteries, but no luck. I called Jewish Waldheim first (only because that is the one I hadn't called before). They said no graves were moved there (they are a few blocks away) because they don't move Jewish graves and also you can't be buried there unless you are Jewish. That let my people out -- they were Lutherans.Next I called Forest Home (the German Waldheim) and talked to Emma. She didn't seem too enthused about looking up any information but said she looked under Bentson, Berntsen, and Larsen and couldn't find Anna or Lars. She said that if I didn't have an exact spelling of the name, they charge $25 for the first name searched and additional for any other spellings. Wow! So that didn't produce any information. I did tell her that the family knew how to spell her name but often typos occur on the other end.I told Emma that within a year of Anna Larsen's grave being moved, the family called the cemetery office and they couldn't find her records then (or now). I asked if they kept the records and she said yes, but I don't think they are separated into a list of the graves that were moved. She said they would have had the original record when she died in 1905 or 1906 (which of course they can't find) that would have told where she was moved. I asked if any of the graves might have been moved to other smaller surrounding cemeteries and she didn't know. She said maybe. Forest Home said that even if I came there (quite a commute from California!), no one can look through the records because of privacy reasons -- the staff has to do it. They didn't say they had a problem with giving out the information though.I called Concordia Cemetery and spoke to John (I was told by the Waldheim Jesish lady to ask for Gary Neubizel or John. He said that he would check in the next few days, but no one seems to remember the circumstances surrounding the graves being moved in the mid 1950s. They have all heard of it, but no one knows how it was handled, no one seems to have a separate list of graves moved, etc. Very frustrating.The Waldheim lady said I should let her know if I find Anne so that she can help other people looking for their family whose graves were moved. She did say that Local #106 moved the graves and didn't know where to find them or if they would have any info. She also said to try the Newberry Library. I know that they have a microfilm of the Forest Home burials, but I don't think that they lend it through inter-library loan (and I'm in California).So that's what I found out today. I think that the Brookfield Historical Society might have some useful information, but they just don't respond so that I can even ask WHAT they have to offer there.If you have any further questions or you can think of any suggestions, I'm sure open to ideas.Thanks, JoyP.S. I grew up in Aurora and St. Charles, IL and we moved to California in 1967. Wish I had tried to start my family research when I lived in the area.

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

So even more questions! Were are Bernard and Charles W buried? The 'secret' (until now, i guess?!, hehe) is 13 reels of lds film, 1295943-949, and 971-976. ..covers 1871-1933, shows name, address, date, and a reference number. ...but is not perfect! ..the address can be the hospital where they passed; and the reference number does not always translate to a filmed cert. ...but sometimes i have matched people to addresses---useful for Ole Olsons. I found the film reference at Newberry; will try to deal with it. ..the question about the list needs to be directed to the 'owners' of the cemetery, i suspose. ...but you might try an email to the Chicago Hist Soc and/or Chicago public library, also. Ask who paid for the moves; they MUST have had a copy at the time, along with the union. Roger.

[Gjest Joy Cottrell]

In 1888, the John Bentson family lived at 8705 W. Buffalo in South Chicago. 'Unknown' (Bernard) Bentson died June 25, 1888 at 2 mos. 25 days (so he would have been born about 3-31-1888 or 4-1-1888 probably. Charles William Bentson died on June 30, 1893 at 2 yrs. 2 mos. 11 days (so he was born about 4-19-1891. At the time of his death, John and Hulda Bentson lived at 468 Parmelee (aka 468 W. 23rd Place) in Chicago. I do not know where the family lived in April 1891 when he was born (although I would really like to know tha because there is a short period of time between April 1890 and Sept. 1891 that I can't find where the family lived. I have death records for Bernard and Charles W. (haven't been able to find birth records though) and BOTH babies are buried at Oak Woods Cemetery in South Chicago. Hulda Bentson's relatives are buried there also.There is yet another mystery in this family because John and Hulda Bentson had another baby who died very young, but I can't find him. I don't know his name (my cousin thought it was something like Einar). I think he may have been born and died in 1892, but it could have been 1894-5 or so too. No name like that appears in the birth index or death index. I also called Oak Woods Cemetery and asked them to look for any other Bentsons buried at Oak Woods and they couldn't find this infant. That was my only hope of finding the name of this missing infant.I think that Anne Larsen (Quarnstrom, Bentson, or whatever variant spelling she may have used) and probably Lars Bentson are buried in the same cemetery because they died within 3 years of each other (I think). Since the family moved to Congress Park in Sept. 1900, I think they used a cemetery close to their present home.I (and several other people who have contacted me with the same problem) have checked several places for more information on the graves being moved -- Chicago Public Library, Chicago Historical Society, Brookfield Historical Society, Brookfield Public Library, Newberry Library, to name just a few, but no one seems to have much information about this event.This is what Katie McMahon of the Newberry Library sent me:'FOREST HOME CEMETERY GRAVES MOVEDA petition was filed in Superior Court for the condemnation of Forest Home Cemetery for the Expressway on August 20, 1965 and judgment was obtained on June 15, 1955.Removal of more than 2,000 graves got underway on August 18, 1955. Show the relatives of 758 were located. Therefore, I assume the other 1200+ descendants who were not located would have been notified through publication in the newspaper sometime in 1955 (?)'I will check again to see if I can find who paid for the moves (city of Chicago maybe since they probably took the land as eminent domain for the expressway?). The lady at Jewish Waldheim yesterday asked her boss who said that Local 106 handled the moving of the graves. I don't know just where to look for them.

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

I've done some research and have an interesting lead--but must wait for film and more offline research; i trust that Gabe is in Aurora or ? and Anna/Lars are not with him? The Cook county highway dept handled things per the Chicago Trib; do you know the Bentson's appear in Trib archives? I would email, if you like; a clash over John's will made the papers! ...some libraries have access, perhaps your local library does have the major papers. More later, Roger.

[Gjest Joy Cottrell]

Am curious as to what information you found. Sounds interesting.I do have a copy of the Bentson article in the Trib where Signa (John Bentson's daughter) doesn't want her brother, Henry, to be executor of his will. Perhaps it was sibling rivalry!You asked about Gabe. Actually he died and is buried at St. Helena, CA (Napa Co.). He died in 1952, so I know that Anna Larsen and Lars Bentson aren't with him.I still feel that they are both buried in the same cemetery (since they only died 3 years apart) and Forest Home and Concordia are two of the closest cemeteries to Congress Park, where John Bentson lived when they died. I do believe that Anna and Lars lived with John & Hulda.My 89-year-old aunt tells how upset the family was to hear they were moving Anna's grave, so the family must have been on the list to notify (and therefore knew which of the two cemeteries Anna was buried in). My aunt said thaat when they would drive into Chicago from Aurora, her mother would point as they drove by the cemetery and say that's where Anna was buried. However, when the family called a few months after the move, the cemetery could not find her records even then.When I talked to Emma at Forest Home this week, I could tell she wasn't thrilled about looking up names, but she said she still couldn't find those names.Today John from Concordia Cemetery called to say that he didn't find anything under several different spellings, but he did take my name and number and said that when he had more time, he would look through the record BOOK for 1905 and 1906 to see if he could find anything that way. As I told him, Anna had to be buried in one of those cemeteries in 1905 or 1906 or the cemetery people wouldn't have contacted the family about moving the grave. I suppose the cemetery card might be misfiled or maybe the first letter of the last name was picked up as an incorrect beginning letter (sometimes handwriting can be hard to read). I think that checking the old cemetery book might hold more hope.The note I received yesterday from the Chicago Historical Society said that the moving of graves started in August 1955. In the short article they found, it said that efforts were made by city, county, and state governments to try to find descendants. Another person told me that the State had the graves moved -- not the city -- because the Eisenhower Expressway is State of Illinois Highway I-290. He saud tgat tge /state if Ukkubius oaud ti gve tge graves nived and the proceeding took almost 7 years. No one can tell me who owned the cemeteries then or now, but Forest Home filed for bankruptcy in 1995. So I am still back to Square 1.

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

You might try the archives; there was more to it; and Ralph's re-election loss is in the Trib as is Henry's experimental farm for the U of ILL.(search Bentson and Aurora); i suspose the Aurora papers are not indexed or online, but you might look into that. The dates are 6-16-1909, 12-31-1907, and 12-29-1910; these relate to Bentson's with a possible connection to Gabe's address. And to help with that, do you have his 1907 address from Alices' birth cert? I think she was born 6-10-1906, right? I could order the film, if you like(1288119, #1930). Edith has a delayed series entry if born 1-22-1903. I'll wait for an obit search of the Trib for those dates before looking at the Newberry film and looking at Daily News film; i take it that these dates have not been researched? What i found in the Trib says the Cook highway dept arranged the moves! Do you have Signa's obit(and others); i can email, if not. The Anna from 9-11-1906 was 14 as indexed. Roger.

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

ps, i think you are correct about handwriting--i've come to suspose that the same person completed Lars and Anna's certs; and the names mis-indexed as a result--in the state and cemetery records. But the grave lot owner MUST have been recorded correctly--poor Emma she must be weary of fruitless searchs-she needs a new job i think. ...but that leads to this queston, of course: is there an alpha list of lot owners-even if the lot is now buried under concrete?! Hopefully the old records were never tossed out; and be totally sure poor Emma is checking the Waldheim files also, you know they are side by side and have merged and web sites says the records are separate, but all in the same office as Emma. ,,and be sure to see Benson as well as Bentson...and be sure to NOT MISLEAD them: the owner could/should have been Gabe or Lars, at the '41' address(?), Lars is the older brother after all!! pps, that is for Lars himself; the lot owner really should have been Lars(for his mothers) as he was the most senior brother. (even if it was John and Gabes $$) ..well enough of my thoughts for now, Roger.

[Gjest Joy Cottrell]

You are really good at finding information. I knew about Ralph's re-election loss, but Ididn't know about Henry's experimental farm. I just knew that he owned a farm. He was a gentleman farmer, but never lived there. Will have to check that out.The dates you gave 6-16-1909, 12-31-1907 and 12-29-1910 that you say relate to Bentsons with a possible connection to Gabe's address, what are those?I have never bothered to get Gabe's childrens' virth records -- even in his book, there was not much mention of them. Elmer (Jack), Alice, and Alice went with their mother after Gabe's divorce in 1916 in Hyannis, NE. Inga then married Hiram Knox there, but divorced him a few years later. The only one Gabe mentions extensively was his first daughter, Amy blanche Bentson Benson, and her family.As for Gabe's address, in 1905 he lived at 2023 albany in Chicago and in 1910 he lived at 3350 41st Court in Chicago. He was a streetcar conductor at that time.Somewhere in Gabe's writings, there was a brief sentence that alluded to the fact that Gabe paid for Anna's burial. Don't know how true this was because Gabe never had much money and later on drifted from job to job. If Anna was living with John when she died, I would have expected him to pay for it because he was the son in the family who did very well financially and he was generous with his money. I suppose it might have been interesting to know where Gabe lived around 1906 when his mother probably died.Emma did not act like she wanted to do any more lookups for me, just the minimum, although I was very nice and apologetic to her. I guess when you aren't doing research on your own relatives, it just isn't the same. This is the third time I've talked to these cemeteries. But I think it is possible that the card could be misfiled. When I was looking at birth records in Norway, I thought the name was Haale when it was really Stalale. The 'St' looked like an 'H' to me. The same with Josefine Honoria (Berntsen), it turned out to be Josefine Bonoria. So maybe that is what happened. No one I hve talked to at the cemeteries seems to be very knowledgeable about lists of names (although John at Concordia mentioned a record book). They keep insisting that they still have the original record cards in their cardfile and if my people aren't there, then they aren't there. They say that if I come up with some new information or a new spelling, get back to them. So I keep waiting to find that new piece of information that will give me a clue.

[Gjest Joy Cottrell]

The three dates you mentioned last in 1907, 1909, and 1910, I couldn't find. Were they in the Chicago rib site? I checked the Aurora Beacon News site and their archives don't go back that far online. What is the significance of those dates and where did you find them? also, I couldn't find the article about henry Bentson's farm. Where can I find that?One other thing . . . I have found my John Bentson family and where they lived from 1888-the present, except for a brief period of time. After the birth of Anna on 3-21-1889, the family moved to Juneau County, WI (don't know what town) where Signa was born on 3-18 or 3-19, 1900. haven't been able to find her birth record which would have told me where in Juneau County the family lived. Supposedly they lived on a farm. One day (as the story goes), Hulda came face to face with a bear, and told John they were moving back to Chicago. Lars Emigrated to Chicago in July 1890, so I was thinking that perhaps the family moved back to Chicago about that time. I don't know where they lived until Sept. 1, 1891 when they bought a house at 358 W. 23rd Place (aka Parmelee). Just can't find them in 1890 or early 1891. You seem to be good at finding information, so maybe you will run across something in your searches.

[Gjest Roger Thauland]

I'll look for the farm reference at the library, seems to be a software clash here at home, i cannot open the pdf's, i do have adobe; somehow the file and the software are not getting together! Blame Gates. The dates come from addresses on the 13 reels i mentioned in (16). I cannot promise these are your people, only that there is a chance; it relates to where they died and where buried, meaning they died outside of Cook or Chicago, but are buried in Chicago. ..i will look again after i get the birth cert address(several weeks) and also use the Albany address. Anna was living with Gabe in 1900 and he is the older and that counted, i think. I can look at the 1890 city book film, and the 1898, and maybe the 1905, as well, for Gabe and Lars, i'll have to look at several spellings as that was a real issue. Roger.

[Gjest Joy Cottrell]

I share your frustration with the .pdf files. I just tried to access a Canadian naturalization site and I couldn't bring up any of their .pdf files. Frustrating.I received a reply from the Oak Park and River Forest Historical Society today. They said that 'when they moved the bodies in the 1950's, they were first seeking out relatives of those buried at the cemeteries to alert them of the situation. Sometimes those families made other arrangements, but many of them were fine with the areas in which their relatives were moved to.''The state of Illinois funded the move in the mid 1950's. The owners of Forest Home cemetery were decendants of the original founder, Ferdinant Haase. There are new owners today, but I'm not sure what their names are.' Then she gives the current address today.'The owner of Concordia cemetery is Gary Neubeiser (and she gives the current address). You can ask them about the Local 106 union and any other questions you may have.'Gary Neubeiser was the one I tried to call, but he wasn't there, so I talked to John. Supposedly John will try to check further as time permits.I wish I knew how to find out how long the John Bentson family lived in Juneau County, WI, but I don't know if they owned a farm or just rented a farm. I just know that Signa Bertha Bentson was born there on 3-18 or 3-19-1900. I had someone try to look for her birth record, but there was only another Signa born in 1898. If I knew what town they lived in there, perhaps I could find a Lutheran church nearby who might have some records.And I sure wish I knew where John lived when he returned to Chicago from Wisconsin -- before they bought their house at 468 W. 23rd Place on 9-1-1891. Before they moved to Wisconsin, the family lived at 8705 Buffalo Avenue in South Chicago, so it is hard to know if they returned to South Chicago or not. At some point around that time period, John worked for a company called Kraig Metallic Products, which became Imperial Steel Cabinets. I have never been able to find Kraig Metallic Products. In 1908 John went to work for Lyon Metallic Products (now Lyon Metal) in Chicago and then moved to Aurora when they moved the company there a year or two later.