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Gjest Sandra Haukeland

[#23388] Need to find a fattiglem pige grave

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Gjest Sandra Haukeland

I'm looking for the grave of Lisabeth Olsdtr born 1809 Kollstad farm Manger on Radøy.She died listed in this arkive as Elisabeth Olsdtr Fattiglem pige Aug 22 1880. She was buried Aug 25 1880. Ref #6911Could she have been buried with her family? Or are there fattig graveyards?I do not have much time and am looking to narrow the search in order to have the best chance of finding her. I've checked the few grave lists I found on this arkiv but had no luck finding her.Thankyou in advance Sandra

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Gjest Renathe-Johanne  Wågenes

I dont think that the grave exist. Afther a periode (20-25 years) the grave is removed, or somebody has to pay for it to still stand. And she is a poor girl, so the grave is lost :-/ There is no graveyards for poor people.

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Gjest Sandra Haukeland

Thank you for answering. How sad they don't get to rest forever because of money.I wonder what they do with the remains. I hope they don't heave them into a hole filled with hundreds of former loved ones and cover with no maker. Or worse taken to the dump.She deserved better than that.

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Gjest Tom Askerøi

I'm afraid it's a bit the other way round. It's more cynical - it's a matter of space. If everyone had their burial place forever there woudn't be any space for the living people - the entire world had been a huge graveyard long ago.But some are rich/powerful enough to 'Take up space' longer than others - like the pharaos...

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Gjest Vibeke Lund Åhling

Hi, I'll try to explain to the best of my abilities, and hope that it is fairly correct. (If it is not, I hope that somebody will correct me!) A common practice still is as follows: The coffin is put in a hole dug in the earth. There are, unlike in modern USA, no concrete vaults. 'Dust to dust' still is the main rule. After a period during which nobody is to be buried in the very same plot, it is assumed that there is nothing left of the deceased body. If bones are found while digging a new grave, the old bones are usually put back into the earth to let the dead rest until the Resurrection. (I have heard of a few large cemetaries that did use a 'bone house' in the cemetary for 'found' bones, but I do not know if this was used in countryside church graveyards. I do not think so.) In the old days only the rich had stone markers. In some areas, iron markers were also used by those who could afford them. Wood markers may have been used. At least in some places, families used to bury their dead in the same area of the cemetary. As a main 'rule', the rich and the poor shared cemetaries in the countryside, while there were differences in the major cities, and only the very wealthy/upper classes were buried inside the churches. (The latter practice is practically discontinued nowadays.) There may have been a part of the cemetary where paupers were buried.In the USA somebody owns the grave plot. The common system here is that the plot is rented from the church, I think with the first years free (I am not sure here; there may be different periods in different places). If nobody pays when the time is up, the grave markers are removed and the grave plot is free for rental again. The closest of kin usually have the option to continue to pay and use the plot.A common translation of the English word cemetary is literally 'church yard'.So if there are any earthly remains left, they most probably are in the cemetary earth, close to or where the person was buried. To remove remains from a church yard is not allowed.As seen with Scandinavian eyes, Lisabeth Olsdatter's remains are resting until the day of the Resurrection in the sacred soil of the church yard, no matter if her relatives had money to pay for the upkeep of a plot and place a stone marker or not.Regards, Vibeke

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Gjest Sandra Haukeland

Thank you!I was wondering if the institution would have it's own graveyard. I thought because the people didn't have money they wouldn't be put with people who might be able to pay for their plots.Unfortunately her family was not poor. So I have no clue where she might be. (sigh)

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Gjest Vibeke Lund Åhling

If you mean if the church had its own graveyard, the answer for most country churches at that time is that they were located surrounded by it... (They still usually are.) I think that there is little chance that there exists a map of a country graveyard from that time that gives the exact location of an individual grave within the graveyard. However, one could always ask, plus ask if there is any family plot that is still used by the nephews' descendants. If they had money, there might be one. There were other parts (sogn) of Manger parish (prestegjeld) (it consisted of Manger, Sæbø, Bø and Herdla at the time according to the documentation), and I think that at least Sæbø, Herdla and Manger have churches in old locations. I would definately start with Manger church and cemetary, since the chances that she is buried there are absolutely biggest since she died in Manger sogn and also Kolstad is in Manger sogn. Also, if somebody was not buried where they died, there is usually a comment in the churchbook about that they either died somewhere else or were buried somewhere else. The chance that Lisabeth Olsdatter continued to live with her nephew and his family until her death is large. If she moved, she would most probably have moved locally. Wish you luck in your search!Vibeke

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