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Gjest Lars E. Øyane

[#25830] Susan Nelson x 2 -aunt (1848) and niece (1867) to Chicago - what became of them?

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Gjest Lars E. Øyane

Synneva Nilsdotter Sætre aka Susan Nelson, born in Hafslo parish, Luster Co., Norway Jan. 10, 1848, emigrated with her parents in 1862 to Columbia Co., WI where she was married 1st time on Feb. 7, 1869 to Ernest Kleber, a wheelwright, born in Germany July 28, 1827. They lived at Lodi, Columbia Co., WI and had three children, two of whom survived infancy, but were divorced in 1889 after Susan had been ''messing around'' with a neighbor named James McCloud and had a son with him!Susan subsequently took off for Chicago, IL where she was remarried prior to 1900 (marriage record has never been found!) to William Kesner (spelling 1900 census) or Kaschner (spelling May 1903 document regarding their divorce), born in Germany in June of 1860. He had emigrated in 1886. In 1900 William was a towerman in Chicago, Cook Co., IL, and we know they were still living in Chicago in 1903, but then I can find no further information about them, possibly with the exception of this entry in the 1930 census of Braceville, Grundy Co., IL:~~~~~~~~~~~~~KASCHNER, William 69 mar@35 Ger Ger Ger houseowner no occ.KASCHNER, Nellie 69 mar@15 KY Eng KY wife~~~~~~~~~~~~~and then in the Illinois State Death index:~~~~~~~~~~~~~KASCHNER, Nellie, died Jan. 27, 1931 at Braceville, Grundy Co., ILKASHNER (note spelling!), William, died Dec. 29, 1934 at Braceville, Grundy Co., IL~~~~~~~~~~~~~It seems obvious that Nellie and probably also William had been married before to someone else, and William's marriage to Susan must have occurred sometime in the mid-1890's! Therefore, I strongly suspect this William Kaschner to have been Susan's 2nd husband...! But then, what happened to Susan? Maybe William's obituary can tell us something?Let me add that Susan's daughter Rose Kleber (later Mrs. Alfred Beedle of Shawano Co., WI and of Marion Co., OR) is recorded living with her mother in 1900, but the same census shows her residing at Lodi, WI. She never had any children. Her brother Warren Kleber (of Natrona Co., WY) was married and had two children, but no descedndants have been found! What happened to the son she had with James McCloud and who was born 'about Jan. 10, 1888', is unknown.@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@Synneva Nilsdotter (Sætre) aka Susan Nelson, a niece of Susan Kleber Kaschner, was born in Dane Co., WI Aug. 7, 1867. As the story goes, Susan and four sisters moved to Chicago at a young age to work, but her four sisters all contracted TB and died young, only Susan survived, and on Nov. 22, 1890 she was married in Chicago, IL to the Doctor who had cared for her sisters, Henry Edward Robert Altenloh, born at Brussels in Belgium Feb. 22, 1869. Henry later worked as a Missionary Doctor, presumably at Borneo in the former Dutch colony of Batavia (Indonesia), as well as in Zululand, South Africa, and he was so well considered by the Queen of Holland that he was granted free travels on any Dutch ship all around the world...! But Susan and Henry later returned to Chicago, IL, and after Henry fell in love with Mary Schintz, the wealthy widow of his uncle, a Chicago lawyer of Swiss background named Henry Schintz (who had died while vacationing at Lucerne in Switzerland in 1910), he divorced Susan in 1913 and was remarried to Mary in 1914.As far as Susan is concerned, she was remarried in Lake Co., IN Apr. 22, 1916 to Herman John Brockmann, probably born in Milwaukee Co., WI July 30, 1877 of parents from Mecklenburg, Germany. Herman was a shoecutter, and the couple went to live at Lombard, DuPage Co., IL. However, they were very poor; their house was sold in 1938, and in 1939 they had to move out! This is the last I see of them, and my question is:What happened to this Susan Altenloh Brockmann (and her husband Herman)? As far as I know, Susan never had any children!Any additional information that anyone can provide about these 'elusive' Sogning girls, would be more than welcome! Thanks a million in advance!Very sincerely yours,Lars E. Oyane

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Gjest Roger Thauland

Per FS-IGI--William G Kaschner marries Susie Kieber in 1900--no date, but must be prior to the census; i will find then in an index and lookup the cert. I can try for the Grundy obits. Roger.

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Gjest Lars E. Øyane

Thank you very much, Roger, for checking out that marriage record (which I didn't find in the Illinois State Marriage Index, but maybe the index doesn't include the year 1900? - It says ''pre 1900'', but right now I cannot access it to check, for some reason...!)!Thank you also for trying Grundy Co., IL for the obits! I shall be anxiously waiting...Very sincerely yours,Lars E. Oyane

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Gjest Roger Thauland

The 1900 census for Susie raises a question about her age, it says born 1849, and her marr cert says age 48 on Oct 20, 1900 when issued(the marr was on the 21st). So they were not married at the June 1900 census, and 1/1 for Rosa is not correct and the m for 20 years is wrong, but maybe the questions were misunderstood! The m/c is #316731, a Torgersen marr, so i can ask ELCA for the birthplaces and address. The closest library to Braceville could not find them in a local death list, i have asked a larger nearby library for help. Is the name given to the 1888 child known? James McCloud and wife are in the 1900 census at Lodi, i may be able to have a lookup in the pre-1907 fiche for them and try for an obit or has that already been done? I cannot find the Brockmanns in any online obit listing; but these are incomplete, there happens to be a Herman Brookman, d 1947, that i will confirm is the wrong person, film is on order for that. Roger.

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Gjest Lars E. Øyane

Thanks again, Roger, for helping me out with the two Susan Nelsons!I was surprised to learn that Susan Kleber and William Kaschner were married so late in 1900; they must have practiced a ''common-law'' marriage way ahead of their time... But maybe that wasn't uncommon in Chicago back then...? (I had a relative in Chicago who appears to have practiced the same with a colored man as early as in the 1880's, at least no marriage record can be found, and they ended up being buried in different cemeteries!!)As far as Susan's age is concerned, I know I have that right from the church records in Norway!In regard to that McCloud child, no, I don't know his name, and I don't know whether he lived or died in infancy. If he did live up, he may have been admitted to an orphanage or to foster parents, don't you think? As strange as it may sound; no McCloud children are recorded as being born in Columbia Co., WI prior to 1907!I have never thought of trying an obituary for James W. McCloud. He was apparently born in 1853 and died at Lodi, WI on March 2, 1903. He was married at Lodi, WI Mar. 1, 1890 to Evaline Carlson, but she must have remarried since J. W. appears to be buried alone at Mt. Pleasant cemetery at Lodi, WI! I fail to find James W. and Evaline in the 1900 census; only his parents, James (Sr) and Catherine are there! Where did you find James W.?At any rate, it would be interesting to learn what a possible church record has to say about William and Susan and their backgrounds!As far as Herman Brookman from 1947 is concerned, I see that he died in Will Co., IL, and I do find two Herman Brookmans in the 1930 census for Will Co., IL, father and son, aged 57 and 13. I guess the father is the one who died in 1947...?Thanks again, Roger, for your wonderful assistance in this matter, and Good Luck in your continued research endeavors!Very sincerely yours,Lars E. Oyane

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Gjest Roger Thauland

I agree about Will county. Forgot to mention that the IL index for Cook is done only thru Nov 1895; i hear only one person works on it; i do not understand why FS lacks the full date(most records do contain the complete date-maybe just a typo); they are up to about 1909, doing their own project; but they do not record the cert #. I could look at the female index for Susan, maybe she married yet again. I should have looked for McClouds at FS sooner; i mixed them up, i guess you have info about which James was the father, i suspose the younger is the more likely; i might ask for an obit from Lodi, i agree its unlikely to help; did someone check the birth index for Kleber in 1888; again unlikely, i suspose.

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Gjest Margaret Miller

Hello Lars, I am well acquainted with your name! I am doing the slektshistorie for Bronnoy Bygdebok in Nordland. Can you tell me what parishes you work with? If we have any ties to your areas, we could perhaps share information. I write in English as it is easier for me, and I know you have been over here in the USA. Med vennlig hilsen fra Margaret

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Gjest Lars E. Øyane

Thank you very much, Roger and Margaret, for new messages.To Roger: I have already checked for Kleber births in Columbia Co., WI for 1888, but there are none. These are the births recorded in Columbia Co., WI in January of 1888, none on the 10th, but some very close...:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~James G Allen 18 Jan 1888 Columbia 0034 000242Anderson 09 Jan 1888 Columbia 0034 000304Lizzie Davies 22 Jan 1888 Columbia 0034 000365George A Delaronde 26 Jan 1888 Columbia 0034 000326John P Dunham 03 Jan 1888 Columbia 0034 000239Franz 15 Jan 1888 Columbia 0034 000277Memand J Funk 05 Jan 1888 Columbia 0034 000322Rasmus C Johnson 01 Jan 1888 Columbia D0008 017714Ella Knutson 05 Jan 1888 Columbia 0036 002342Florence A Moore 23 Jan 1888 Columbia 0034 000245Roy Nelson 22 Jan 1888 Columbia 0034 000240Nugent 02 Jan 1888 Columbia 0034 000241Smith 11 Jan 1888 Columbia 0034 000276Jaspar N Stebbins 23 Jan 1888 Columbia 0034 000303Ralph S Tweed 26 Jan 1888 Columbia 0034 000388~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The one that I find the most interesting of these, is Rasmus C. Johnson, which seems to the only delayed birth record... Maybe he was a foster son or an adopted son? Then we also have a Roy Nelson; Susan's maiden name was Nelson...!Apart from that, I never considered the possibility that Susan might have divorced William Kaschner to marry a 3rd time, but this is of course an option not to be ignored!To Margaret: I am happy to learn about your project in regard to Bronnoy Bygdebok in Nordland. Are you researching the emigrants only or also the ''domestic'' lines? I am working on Luster County in Sogn which includes the parishes of Luster, Jostedal and Hafslo. After scanning my manuscript I find several connections to Bronnoy. Maybe you could contact me directly thru my e-mail address: loya@online.no Thank you!Very sincerely yours,Lars E. Oyane

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Gjest Roger Thauland

I wonder whats required to obtain a birth cert? Do you see Roy in the 1920, Waukesha county, born to WI/Nor; could be...i do not see the other 2, but maybe the Richard Smith, 12, Courtland in Columbia could be him. You might try to buy the b/c or perhaps someone has access to the courthouse records or have the b/c's been filmed? You could also try WW1 registrations at Ancestry--i think WI is now complete. Roger. ..i can look at FS in a minute..

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Gjest Roger Thauland

That Roy was born June 1887, at Summit, to Martin; so that is not a match; but viewing some of the b/c's should resolve the question(i hope). Roger.

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Gjest Lars E. Øyane

Thank you, Roger, for your latest messages regarding the Susan Nelsons, and thank you also for sending me off-line a copy of Susan Kleber's marriage record to William G. Kaschner!The Wisconsin pre-1907 birth records (as well as the death and marriage records) are avilable for (free) look-ups at the Wisconsin State Historical Society at Madison, WI, or else someone would have to make the trip to Portage, WI! However, I doubt it would give us very much of a result. If only we could figure out what became of Susan...?The marriage record was very interesting as it gives us William Kaschner's place of birth! Thus, he was born at Zielenzig in the Oststernberg region in Prussia or what is currently called Sulecin in the Lubuskie region of Poland! It appears that the family name Kaßner did exist at Zielenzig in the 1800's, but I guess it won't be easy to verify William's birth information...!?Thanks again, Roger, and Good Luck in your continued research endeavors!Very sincerely yours,Lars E. Oyane

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Gjest Lars E. Øyane

I have received the following list of city directory entries from Chicago in regard to William Kaschner:~~~~~~~~~~1900--no listing of Kaschner1901--no listing1902--Kaschner, William--cook--h 150 Superior1904--Kaschner, William G--cook--h 143 Dearborn1905--Kaschner, William G--cook--h 143 Dearborn1907--Kadchner, William G--cook--h 143 Dearborn1908--Kaschner, William G--cook--h 143 Dearborn1909--no listing1910--no listing1911--no listing1912--Kaschner, Wm--grocer--1306 Wells1913--Kaschner, Wm--clk--h 916 Wells1914--Kaschner, Wm--clk 1032 Grace--h 916 Wells1915--no listing1916--Kaschner, Wm--cook--h 120 W Chestnut1917--Kaschner, Wm--lab--h 323 Center1923--Kaschner, Wm--trussmkr--h 229 W Oak1928-29--no listing~~~~~~~~~~I am not sure, but I do suspect all of these entries refer to the same man, William G. Kaschner, who married Susan Nelson...? But does it help us any? I still cannot find him in the 1910 or 1920 censuses!Very sincerely yours,Lars E. Oyane

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Gjest Roger Thauland

So far, no luck finding either Susan, i will ask the Lombard PL (public library) for help; i have found info about Nellie, if you are interested; her son(married, no children it seems) is buried at Forest Home in Forest Park; in 1915 that was, the address is given as 229 W Oak St--her other son lived near me, he passed in 1959 and had 1 daughter with living family then. Roger.

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Gjest Lars E. Øyane

Thank you very much, Roger, for your latest message! YES, I am very interested in further information about Nellie (Kaschner?) and her family. It MAY subsequently lead us to William and Susan! Or at least to verify this is indeed the 'right' William!Thanks again for brilliant research!Very sincerely yours,Lars E. Oyane

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Gjest Roger Thauland

Nellie Daily(aug 1860?) was born at Louisville, KY, married John W Coles(june 1853?)-he dies 16 july 1906 by his own hand, also of Louisville; son Charles W(aug 1875) married Catherine(april 1877) of Germany; at this point no known children; he dies Chicago, 7 april 1915, cancer, buried Forest Home. Son James M, (1877) marries Kittie(july 1877) who dies. He then marries Crystal in (1906?). Daughter Helen born about 1908(i think 1907, actually), she marries Elmer Henrichsen. Nellie Coles marries William, 7-22-1911, #570730; that may be the lic date--did not lookup yet. Roger.

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Gjest Lars E. Øyane

Thank you once again, Roger, both for this interesting message as well as the ones you sent me off-line! I am impressed! Good detective work!Now, am I ever curious to learn what that marriage licence from 1911 has to say!!? May we assume that William was 'on his own' after he divorced Susan (about 1908?) until he married Nellie in 1911 and again appears in the city directories from 1912?Very sincerely yours,Lars E. Oyane

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Gjest Roger Thauland

When was the divorce? That document might be found in Cook records--but they charge a fee of $9 per year to search indexes and then a few $ more to copy/mail. I can lookup the marr, likely tomorrow; might visit Forest Home enroute to another place, if a family lot--will call first; no info on Brockmann's in Dupage co; the phone # is 630-407-5500, the index is online(a clerk can do a lookup), but the cert costs $12 when found. Roger. ..he(WM) may have been too busy with work (and beer!) to deal with the city book folks and the census takers--i think that would have been 'her' chore! You need the 1940 census for the couple--might have moved to WI--so buying a WI records search is possible; an addition to IL records is also possible-but i have no idea when that will happen.

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Gjest Roger Thauland

I've decided to order lds film for William K's d/c in Grundy; might get something from the cemetery; the Grundy obit person has been out of town and should get back to me next week; just called Forest Home and found Nellie there! Might stop tomorrow to learn who else is in lot 24 of section 3, along with John and Charles. Roger.

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Gjest Lars E. Øyane

Thank you, Roger, for sending me the most wonderful X-mas gift I could ever imagine: Herman Brockmann's death certificate! Wonderful!By the way, did you ever find any further information about William Kashner?Merry Christmas!Lars E. Oyane

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Gjest Roger Thauland

Still awaiting film; then i will try again for obits for them, learning his exact location may help focus on most likely newspapers(and libraries); no markers at Forest Home for any of the 3. Roger.

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Gjest Lars E. Øyane (Luster kommune)

Thank you very much, Roger, for sending me off-line a copy of William Kas©hner's death certificate. The informant was George Barton, a ''Yankee'' who lived in the neighborhood who didn't even know William's exact birthdate, his former occupation or his parents' names. And William was apparently buried in Colton(?) cemetery at Braceville, IL by the W. F. Reeves Funeral Home at Coal City, IL. The person signing the certificate was Joseph Cerutti.I called the current Director of the Reeves Funeral Home, and he promised me he would check his records for further information. We'll see what comes..., although I must admit I don't expect too much, since funeral records in general were rather ''sketchy'' back then, but maybe if a tombstone could be located...Or else, we have to hope for a divorce record for William and Susan from about 1908!In the meantime, Susan Brockmann still remains an enigma...Thanks again, Roger, for brilliant assistance so far!Very sincerely yours,Lars E. Oyane

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Gjest Roger Thauland

Perhaps a usgenweb vol will help, the cemetery is Cotton, started as the Cotton family only, then expanded; no office. For Susan's d/c, Molly K. could find it in Springfield records for a $17 fee; (i think you have enough info). See www.mollx.com and www.chicagogenealogy.com Roger.

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