[#43047] Please help Barry - - - Reisende - Romani - Svarte Fredrik - Hartmann - Palm.

[Gjest Jon Torp]

Can someone please help Barry. He wonders where his mother`s side comes from?Barry is at: lbmatthews@btinternet.comHe says:Eva Elizabeth Frederickson born in Pendleton Salford in 1914, Her Brother Horace V Frederickson born South Manchester in 1915,Their Father Horace V Frederickson born 1888 Toxteth Park Liverpool. Their Mother Emma Elizabeth Barnett born 1891 Salford.Horace V Frederickson's 1888 Father was Laurit(z.s.y) Hartmond Frederickson born 1857/58? St James Place England. a ship's rigger, married to Euphemia Walker on 16/Mar/1884, at St Michaels,Toxteth Park,Liverpool.On the 1881 census on board the Samaria berthed at Liverpool, but on the census he gives his birth place as Norway.On Laurits marriage certificate his Father is Frederick Frederickson a gold smith,born Norway. So have I come to a dead?----------I am convinced that Lauritz Hartmond Frederickson born 1857/58? - Son of Norwegian goldsmith Fredrick Fredrikson is here:LenkeThis shows that Lauritz Hartman Fredriksen came from one of the most famous romani families of Norway.His Mother was Johanne Wilhelmine Johannesdatter Palm and his father was Fredrik Fredriksen (Svarte-Fredrik) - 'Black-Fredrik'.Can someone with these people in their database please help Barry with more information about his romani roots on his mother´s side?ThanksJon Torp

[Gjest Kjellaug Robberstad Petit]

I just typed in 'reisende' and found that the Palm family has been discussed before. Maybe you can find something of interest here? Lenke

[Gjest Jon Torp]

I know that Kjellaug, but that´s not in English.

[Gjest Jon Torp]

1901 England Census RecordName: Lauritz FredericksonAge: 44Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857Relation: HeadSpouse's name: EuphemiaGender: MaleWhere born: Norway Civil Parish: PendletonEcclesiastical parish: St LukeCounty/Island: LancashireCountry: England Registration district: SalfordSub-registration district: PendletonED, institution, or vessel: 29Household Members: Name AgeLauritz Frederickson 44Euphemia Frederickson 38Eleanor B Frederickson 16Horace V Frederickson 12Thomas W Frederickson 9Bertie Frederickson 7Norman Frederickson 4Hilda M Frederickson 2Infant Frederickson 1 monthEleanor Walker 60Thomas Walker 29

[Gjest Jon Torp]

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983about Horace V FredericksonName: Horace V FredericksonYear of Registration: 1913Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-JunSpouse's Surname: Emma E BarnettDistrict: SalfordCounty: Greater Manchester, LancashireVolume: 8dPage: 220--------England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983about Horace Victor FredricksonName: Horace Victor FredricksonYear of Registration: 1888Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-DecDistrict: Toxteth ParkCounty: LancashireVolume: 8bPage: 239----England & Wales, Death Index: 1984-2004about Horace Victor FredricksonName: Horace Victor FredricksonBirth Date: 1 Aug 1915Death Registration Month/Year: Oct 1994Age at death (estimated): 79Registration district: BirkenheadInferred County: CheshireRegister number: C20BEntry Number: 85----

[Gjest Jon Torp]

BarryHave done this in a hurry. Others can give you more. Have done this after Anenthafelnumbers system: [url="http://andrsn.stanford.edu/ahnenbin.html>http://andrsn.stanford.edu/ahnenbin.html 1. Laurids Hartmann Fredriksen b. 18 Sep 1859. Married in England 1884.2. Fredrik Fredriksen Hartmann b. 1827 - Here in cencus 1900. Lenke3. Johanne wilhelmine Johannesdatter Palm. b. 1829 - Here in cencus 1900.

[Gjest Aina Ch.Sveum]

I have found out that Fredrik 'Svarte- Fredrik'Fredriksen and Johanne Willhelmine J Palm is NOT parents to this Laurits Hartmond Fredrickson.So we are still loking for Lauritz father,Fredrik Fredrickson,gold smith,born in Norway in 1835.Barry say that his mother and her sister visiting some relatives in Bergen many yers ago.So is there anyone that has anything about gold smits in Bergen or emigration to England ? Aina

[Gjest Jonny Mydland]

Hi! Although I can agree there is a certain doubt about the exact parents of Laurits – I have two alternatives – I cannot see there should be doubt that he is of the vagrant Hartmann family. Eilert Sundt mentions that Laurits Hartmann Fredriksen became a sailor. Sometimes names can be very similar, but in this case I opt for having found the right Laurits settling in England. And since this is also my family, I now feel proud of having relatives there! (everybody has a relative in USA…). It would be interesting if Aina could reveal to us how she came to the conclusion that Laurits does not belong to the Hartmann family, and inform about the sources for this! Best greetings Jonny

[Gjest aina sveum]

Hello JohnnyMy source is Inger Kvennodd.According to her the son of Fredrik and Willhelmine was born and died in Norway.Abaout the Hartman family,can you please contact me Jonny.ainac@tele2.noAina

[Gjest Jonny Mydland]

Hello, Aina! I'm so sorry, but I just saw your request today. I normally search 'omstreif' and get most of the discussions concerning vagrant people, but this discussion didn't contain this word... Anyway, maybe I better give you my e-mail address: jonny-m@online.no. Best greetings, Jonny

[Gjest Mike Wilson]

This I got by searching on the record number, a useful trick in familysearch.org..Results for: Fredriksen, Norway Exact Spelling: Off Batch Number: C428102 [refine search] Prepare selected records for download Vital Records Index / Norway - 10 Select records to download - (50 maximum)1. Stine Marie Thomine FREDERIKSDATTER BRUUN - Vital Records Index Gender: F Birth/Christening: 26 Feb 1846 Hurdal, Akershus, Norway2. Laurids Hartmann FREDRIKSEN - Vital Records Index Gender: M Birth/Christening: 18 Sep 1859 Hurdal, Akershus, Norway3. Johan Christian FREDRIKSEN - Vital Records Index Gender: M Birth/Christening: 29 Sep 1852 Hurdal, Akershus, Norway4. Henriette Fredrikke FREDRIKSDATTER - Vital Records Index Gender: F Birth/Christening: 06 Jul 1853 Hurdal, Akershus, Norway5. Josephine Agnes FREDERIKSDATTER LIPPART - Vital Records Index Gender: F Birth/Christening: 24 Sep 1855 Hurdal, Akershus, Norway6. Frants Oscar FREDERIKSEN - Vital Records Index Gender: M Birth/Christening: 20 Jan 1856 Hurdal, Akershus, Norway7. Gyda FREDRIKSDATTER - Vital Records Index Gender: F Birth/Christening: 11 Mar 1859 Hurdal, Akershus, Norway8. Frydra Kathinka FREDRIKSDATTER LUND - Vital Records Index Gender: F Birth/Christening: 16 Apr 1866 Hurdal, Akershus, Norway9. Emilie Kathinka FREDRIKSDATTER LUND - Vital Records Index Gender: F Birth/Christening: 01 Jan 1868 Hurdal, Akershus, Norway 10. Fredrik Christian Joseph FREDRIKSEN LUND - Vital Records Index Gender: M Birth/Christening: 22 Aug 1870 Hurdal, Akershus, NorwaymvhMike