[#46383] Per A. Nermo rømte på ski fra Trysil til Sverige ca.1860-70, em. til USA ca.1893

[Gjest Per Nermo]

From the names of the neighbouring farms in the 1950 'Matrikkel' it seems obvious to me that 'Nermo' must be located somewhere on this map of Trysil centre, maybe within the 'semi-circle' Østmo-Sørberg-Akrefeltet on the eastern fringe and the river (Trysilelva ?) in the west. Local knowledge is needed here ! Anyone from Trysil around ?

[Gjest Per Nermo]

And here's another map, this time from 'Visveg.no', marking ''Sørhus-jordet'' which is obviously on the land of the (old) Sørhuus-farm. Location names 'Østmo' and 'Moen' should indicate that 'Nermo' (lower Mo) is not far away (maybe by the river ?). As we know, a 'mo' is a flat part of land with sand or morene ground, most oftenly with pine tree vegetation). Are we close ?(At the top: 'Innbygda' , to which 'skolekrets' (children's school) Nermo belonged)

[Gjest Ruth Gaustad]

Har i dag i huset en vel voksen trysling som visste om et lite hus hvor navnet var Nermo. Jeg vet også hvor stedet er. Mosanden er det nederste navnet på kartet, men vi må nedenfor kartkanten for å finne riktig sted. Og det er mye sannsynlig at plassen har hørt Sørhus til, gården eier mer grunn på samme side av elva som det stedet det her er snakk om. Per,det er Trysilelva, så du har rett. Elva starter jo i Femunden i Engerdal kommune, og engerdølene sier Femundselva, så passerer den Trysil kommune og renner over grensen til Sverige og da får elva navnet Klara eller Klarelven. Hvis du legger inn nok en bit av kartet så kan vi få bekreftet hvor Nermo er. Jeg selv er ikke så god på data at jeg kan få lagt inn kart, dessverre.Mvh. Ruth.

[Gjest Ruth Gaustad]

Jeg var litt for kjapp i stad, studerte kartene nærmere og finner Nermo på det første kartet.Hvis vi drar en linje til høyre fra mellom E og S i Vestsidevegen så finner vi stedet. Der er en krokete vei og det huset som ligger lengst fra veien inni kroken er Nermo(hus nr.3)Ruth.

[Gjest Per Nermo]

Er det her du mener ?

[Gjest Per Nermo]

Eller her ?

[Gjest Per Nermo]

(44:) A very helpful person gave the following answer to my inquiry at ''Anbytarforum'' (I will try to translate it at the bottom ...) :- - - - - - -Björn Engström – torsdag den 08 febr 2007 kl. 08.37:I husförhörslängden står 'Af Ljusdals Häradsrätt dömd d. 25/11 för 1:sta resan medelst inbrott föröfvat stöld till 10 mån. straffarbete och sat vara förlustig medborg. förtroende i 3 år 10 månader'.Själva domen finns förmodlingen på Landsarkivet i Härnösand.Det var vanligt att efter fängelsedom dömdes till förlustig av medborgerligt förtroende som gällde ytterligare en tid. Det innebar bl.a. att han inte kunde teckna avtal och liknande.Hälsningar Björn Engström- - - - - - -I'll attempt a translation :'[As a Note regarding Per Arneson Nermo (born 1843 in Trysil, Norway) in the 1886-1892 'home census' for Hedsjø, Ramsjø, Gävleborgs county, on page no. 97 is written]:''By Ljusdahl County Court centenced on Nov 25th (1889) for having (as a 1st time offender ?) commited theft by burglary, to 10 months of 'imprisonment at hard labour penal servitude' (?) and loss of civil rights ('trust'/'confidence') for 3 years and 10 months'.The sentence itself is assumed to be found at the State Archives at Härnösand.It was common after an imprisonment to be sentence to 'loss of civil confidence' (rights?) for an additional period of time. Which implicated that he would not be able in this period to sign contracts and other formal papers.'- - - - - - -I sure hope Björn will forgive my clumsy translation. I'm rather unsure on how to translate the expression ''för 1:sta resan'', but I've made a feeble attempt above. Likewise, ''förlustig av medborgerligt förtroende'' does of course deserve a far more accurate wording in formal English.Per A. Nermo (born 1843) is supposed to have served his sentence, which would allow him to leave the hard labour in Okt 1890 approximately, and to regain his rights as a (Swedish ?) citizen in Aug 1894. But by then he is supposed to have emigrated to the US (via Christiania/Oslo ?) on May 10th 1893). (Maybe he was 'paroled').I hope someone will contribute with supplements and corrections to above.

[Gjest Ruth Gaustad]

Hei Per.Skal prøve en forklaring så du får stedfestet Nermo. På det andre kartet etter mine innlegg har vi to hus i enden på den krokete veien,litt venstre for dem,inni kroken, er det rette huset.(Det ser ut som det har et påbygg som ikke er rettvinklet)Min kilde kunne for telle at ca. 1940 var det et lite småbruk hvor han hadde hentet melk. I dag er det bare et bolighus, trolig utvidet en del siden den gang.Håper dette er ok så beliggenheten kan komme på plass nå.Mvh.Ruth.

[Gjest Per Nermo]

Arnie, the exact location of the Nermo (26/162) cotter farm (under main farm no. 26, Sørhus søndre, Trysil) is by Ruth (above) said to be on the map rendered in (56) above, appr. 16 mm (on the map) horisontally to the left (west) of the point of my red pin marker, i.e. where there's currently a house thats's apparently buildt with an extention at an odd angle.Of course this is probably (certainly ?) NOT the same house that sat on the same patch of land in 1851, when Per A. Nermo's mother Olia Olsdatter married Mattis Persen from Flisberget, Elverum (and settled at Nermo ?). (I guess we don't know for sure that Per was actually born at Nermo ...)

[Gjest Arnie P. Nermo]

Hello Everyone, Thank you so much for the imput. I will try to get a few more of my relatives to post some information and questions. And thank you for the maps. This is a real treat. Re: message #49; a great offer Bjorn! Re: # 47, I will try to get the proper information to you Per, as soon as I have a reliable source (from Seattle). In 1983, while in Norway, I came across some church records with the history of the 'Nermo' name. Is it true that the name originally comes from Nether & Moag, meaning 'lowland or farmland near the water'? Per, you probably know this as an easy one! Also, I really wonder what crime Per was convicted of. I speculate he killed a moose or hurt (killed) a man on a train, as the family story goes. Is there any way to check this out?........ Thanks for the English translations, Per : I should send you my Norwegian translation to give you all a laugh. Gadaggen! Arnie

[Gjest Arnie P. Nermo]

Re#44, Per A. Nermo 'commited theft by burglary',.... I can't believe that a relative of mine would stoop to petty theft. I would rather believe that he punched out the man on the train,who had swindled him out of his cash during a crooked card game, then took the money back. I could really see a Nermo doing this! Please, please don't tell me my forefather was a chicken thief! (lol) Arnie P.

[Gjest Per Nermo]

I'm afraid that the conviction text says quite clearly that Per broke in and stole ... ( sorry about that ... ! )'Nermo' comes from Neder/Nedre (nether/lower) Mo/Mou/Moug, a 'mo' being a flat landscape with sand or morene ground, often with pine tree type of vegetation. Not necessarily close to water (river), but frequently, because the river (or preferably a glacier in motion) would have brought the sand in place ...

[Gjest Per Nermo]

Per (born 1843) was sentenced in 1889 in Sweden (46 years old) for this petty crime, and I would not think that this conviction refers to whatever reason was for him to leave Trysil (Norway) for Sweden in 1866, 23 years earlier (23 years old) ! For all I know, the train fight or moose story would hold water regarding his younger adventures ! Apart from that you wouldn't have to leave the country for having killed a moose (elk, actually, in Norway !).

[Gjest Arnie P. Nermo]

Hi Folks! I just talked to my aunt Alice tonight (daughter of Louis Martin Nermo), she is about 86 years old and so her memory is not too reliable. According to her there is some truth to the story that Per A. Nermo did get in trouble for killing an elk or moose but she had never heard of any prison term for theft. Does anyone know what he stole? She also talked about a 'Martha' who became a Luthern minister. She wasn't sure if it was a sister or half sister of Per's. She recalled that Pete and Louis came to the USA on a cattle boat of that era. I asked her about Pete's wifes. Aunt Alice believes that the first two were both named Christina the third Agnes.

[Gjest Per Nermo]

(38 / A. E. Ferner, Heradsbygd :) Er alder eller f.år angitt for foreldrene (Peter Nermo og Christina) ved Census 1906 i Saskatchewan ?

[Gjest Per Nermo]

(64:) We know of no second marriage for Per Arneson Nermo (born 1843), so the 'Martha' who became a Luthern minister (really ?) was probably his daughter (born appr. 1872 or maybe earlier ?) and thus the sister of Pete/Peter/Per (born 1871), who had a daughter Martha Victoria in his 2nd marriage, born 1905 in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada (ref. 38 above).

[Gjest Arnie P. Nermo]

Re: #57 ....... Per A. Nermo served '10 months of 'imprisonment at hard labour penal servitude'. Does anyone have an idea what type of hard labour this would be in Sweden during the late 1880's How and where it would be served? Thanks, Arnie P. Nermo

[Gjest Arnie P. Nermo]

PS: In keeping with Trysil traditions, Per A. Nermo (b. 1843) was known to be a great Nordic skier. He was also very handy with a rifle. In fact target shooting and hunting has been passed down to each generation, from father to son, and to myself. We have some great hunting stories over the years; although, I no longer believe in hunting wild animals, I still own my father's rifle and would have a hard time giving it away. All the best. Arnie P.

[Gjest Trond Øivindsson Lunde]

Mattis Persson på Nermo fra Flisberget i Elverum, Mattis Persson, døpt 18.06.1786 , d. i Trysil 10.02.1874 g 1) 28.12.1813 m. Valborg Bergersdatter fra Brattberget, Osvik, Sør-Osen , f. 1792 . Ekteskapet ble oppløst. g 2) i Trysil 1846 m. Olea Olsdatter fra Trysil, f. 22.05.1824 , d.. 27.10.1911. Mattis var oppsitter på Lykkja av østre Lindberget og på Nermo i Trysil . I likhet med faren veteran fra Napoleonskrigene. Vedr. bildet er det på registreringsskjemaet skrevet: 'Ref. P.J. Mobæk via hans bestemor Marthe Mattisdtr. 1864 - 1940: Fotoet ble tatt på Skredders, Mattis var på hjemvei til Nermo og skulle over elva. Han gikk med ulyst med på å la seg fotografere. Da de var ferdige sa han: Nå har je stått narr lenge nok for dekk!'

[Gjest Arnie P. Nermo]

Hello Folks, I am interested in fining the real truth about Per. A Nermo, from at the State Archives at Härnösand. All jokes aside , I don't intend to be an apologist for him. And if I get the results you can be assured that I will share them on the Debate Database, with all concerned colleagues. I am sure if we all go back into any of our family pasts, far enough, we will find some dirt. After all, our forefathers really were the ferocious heathen Vikings. I for one can't help but be proud of them anyway! And I feel the same way about Per A. Nermo...... Nevertheless, as I said, all jokes aside, the research efforts you are doing is historically valuable and has scientific integrity. I can only be humbled and applaud you all. I know that results from here are painfully slow in coming, I feel frustrated with many in the family that really don't care. I guess it's the same with all families. Some care and some don't! I will, however, get as much as I can from them as quickly as possible. I still have to make calls, send messages and get e-mails back. I have quickly come to realize that it is so easy to send the wrong information. I am trying to be a little more rigorous for the sake of accurate research.

[Gjest Per Nermo]

(69:) Just to clarify: Mattis (born 1786) (pictured above) is the husband (married 1846) of Olea Olsdatter (born 1824), mother of Per A. Nermo, who was born (outside wedlock) in 1843 (father being Arne Olsen Gropen/Gropa from Elverum).

[Gjest Per Nermo]

(69:) Kjennes ytterligere detaljer (utover innholdet i innlegg 18) om oppholdet i 'Trondheims Stift eller Nordlandene' til Mattis og Olea og de tre eldste barna) i en periode fra 1852 og utover ? Hvor var de ? I 1865 er de på husmannsplassen Nermo i Trysil (er den korrekt markert på kartet i innlegg 56 ?).Jeg har notert flg. barn av Mattis og Olea: Marthe 1846, Mathis 1849, Oline 1850, Sofie 1860. Var det fler ?Bode Mattis også en periode på 'Sandbæklien' ? Og hvor var Lykkja, under Østre Lindberget ?Når ble Mattis' ekteskap med Valorg oppløst ? Stemmer det at Valborg og Mattis fikk sønnen Ole i 1828, g. m. Karen Kristoffersdatter Rønningen (sønn: Mattis, f. 1857, Sør-Odal) ?Mattis' eldste datter Marthe (1846-1940) tok over Nermo. Hun ble (ca.1870?) g.m. skomaker Martin Bergersen, og jeg kjenner barna Johanne 1871, Mathea 1874 og Olaus 1877. Var det fler ?Var 'P. J. Mobæk' sønn av Petter Persen Mobæk (f.1871, g. 1898) og Marthe's datter Johanne Martinsdatter f. 1871 ? Hva var PJ's fulle navn og f.år ?(Johanne og Petter hadde (bl.a.?) barna Martin Moody 1897 og Petter Magnus 1899, og bodde under FT 1900 på 'Nermo Søndre, Trysil. Hvor var det ?).Håper noen har svar på noe av alt dette !

[Gjest Trond Øivindsson Lunde]

Flisberget i Elverum er tatt opp som tema tidligere i dette forum, se 40028: [url="http://da2.uib.no/cgi-win/WebDebatt.exe?slag=listinnlegg&debatt=brukar&temanr=40028&sok=flisberget&startnr=&antall=&spraak=&nr=1&antinnlegg=5#anker>Lenke Se innlegg 2 i det temaet, der finner du link til en artikkel jeg har skrevet om Flisberg-slekta.Jeg har ingen dato for når Mattis`ekteskap med Valborg ble oppløst. Hun levde fortsatt i 1865 og står oppført med 'f' - fraskilt som sivilstand:

[Gjest Per Nermo]

Var han på 'Lykkja av østre Lindberget' før eller etter Sandbekklia ? Hvor var førstnevnte ?

[Gjest Per Nermo]

(72/73/18:) Dersom han bygde husmannsplassen Nermo i Trysil i 1855 kan altså ikke oppholdet nordpå etter 'utflyttingen' (i 1852) til ''Trondheims Stift eller Nordlandene' ha vart mer enn 2-3 år.