[#66938] Ole Larsen Sundby av Nannestad og hustru Petronelle av Baerum

[Gjest Tybring Hemphill]

I am trying to confirm the ancestry of this couple who were married I believe in Oslo in 1840. His parents may be Lars Olesen Sundby and Anne Christendatter and hers are thought to be Amund Pedersn and Kari Christensdatter. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you.Tybring Hemphill

[Gjest Kristinn Hegna]

It may be of interest to people that would like to help you to know that these are the people you are looking for Lenke . They belonged to Vår Frelsers church in 1865.Kristinn

[Gjest Kristinn Hegna]

(which is Oslo Domkirke...)

[Gjest Kristinn Hegna]

No 145 on this page of those who moved from the Nannestad parish 1834-1839 is farmer's son Ole Larsen from Sundby farm aged 23 1/4 years. It states that he is going to 'The artillery in Christiania' as far as I can see.Akershus fylke, Nannestad, Ministerialbok nr. I 9 (1815-1840), Utflyttede 1834-1839, side 582-583. Permanent sidelenke: LenkeK

[Gjest Tybring Hemphill]

Thanks for your help Kristinn. I'll attach a link to the marriage record I found #53.file:///Users/tybring/Desktop/Desktop/Genealogy/Oslo Domkirke 1828-1847 Sundby marriage.htmlI can't quite figure out all of what is said but he is said to be 25 in 1840, so born in 1815 or so and the 1865 censsu says he is 51 so born about 1814. Is it odd then that the record that seems to show him leaving Nannestad says he is 23 1/4 in 1836 him? I guess it could be the end of 1836 so that gives a birth year of 1813 - not so far off. His eldest son was in the military so that connection makes sense but he was a a tailor himself in 1865.I have found a possible record of his birth in 1815 #26, but how do we know it is the same man who we find in Oslo? file:///Users/tybring/Desktop/Desktop/Genealogy/Nannestad 1815-1839 Ole L Sundby birth.htmlCan you make out any relevant details? Thanks for you help.Tybring

[Gjest Berit Knudsen]

Lysning, right side [url="http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7378&idx_id=7378&uid=ny&idx_side=-15>Lenke The engagement

[Gjest Berit Knudsen]

Petronille/Petronelle born 1816 and bapt. in Tanum church in Bærum [url="http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=14&filnamn=0220daap&gardpostnr=2445&merk=2445#ovre>Lenke Thr churchrecord no.87 Lenke Parents Amund Pedersen and Karen Xstensdatter(Christensdatter) living at Bærum jernværk. in vestre Bærum. The marriage of Amund and Karen

[Gjest Berit Knudsen]

Nannestad 1815: Ole Larsen no.26 Lenke(4) about moving to Christiania. It is Ole Larsen from Nordbye not Sundby. Maybe he was working at Nordbye or the familye had moved to Nordbye?

[Gjest Kristinn Hegna]

You're right, Berit. Thank you.Tybring, I guess you can never be certain. You have to look at the indices and see what it adds up to. 1. A couple with the names that you are looking for are married in the parish where they live in 1865 and 1875 Lenke . 2.The year and place of birth at the marriage/engagement is the same as you find in the census. 3. The fathers's names, dates, place of birth and place of baptism corresponds with the baptismal records. 4. There are no better candidates.At the engagement, Ole's father is noted as Lars Olsen Sundby Eie, which means that he lived at a smaller farm that was owned by Sundby farm. Sundby Eie is also mentioned at the baptism. Petronelle's father is described as a worker at Bærums Verk (iron works) both at the baptism and engagement.Kristinn

[Gjest Tybring Hemphill]

Thank you so much Kristinn and Berit. You obviously have a lot more experience with digitalarkivet than I do. I am hampered by my limited ability to understand Norwegian. Perhaps if one of you had a moment to explain a few things, I might be able to take the next step.1. How do you set up a link (which I tried unsuccessfully to do before) to show another researcher what you have found?2. How can I tell what parish or region the records come from when you send me a link? For example, the engagement of Ole and Petronelle.3. I am sure there is much information in the records that I cannot understand. I think forlovede are the people being engaged and Faddere are the witnesses or sponsors. Can you tell what other information of genealogical value is contained in those records - I think they show the fathers of the engaged couple, but am not sure if that is correct and if there is anything else.4. What is lysning?I am amazed at what you have been able to find and thank you for your generosityTybring

[Gjest Kristinn Hegna]

You're welcome, Tybring :-)To your questions:1. At the top of the page of each parish register page, there are drop down menus. One of them says 'bildeinformasjon'. Pull down the menu and chose 'øverst' (meaning 'top'). As you do that, a lot of information about the page you are looking at will appear. The name of the parish, years, list, pages etc. In addition, you will get a 'permanent sidelenke' and a 'permanent bildelenke' - permanent links to the page ('side-') and the picture ('bilde-', .jpg). If you copy this link and paste it into your post here, it will appear as 'lenke' in the text, with a hyperlink to it.2. The parish and region will appear when you ask for 'bildeinformasjon' 'øverst' as explained above.3. There is supposed to be an english dictionary at Lenke but I didn't get the link to work when I tried just now. YOu are right about forlovede and faddere (which is easily confused with 'fader'=father). Other important information is 'bosted' or 'opholdssted' which is where they lived. 'Fødested' is place of birth. 'Alder' is age. 'Anmerkning' is notes. 'Daab' or 'dåp' is baptism.4. Lysning means Marriage Banns - the intent to marry was read in church three sundays in a row before the couple married.Just ask again if there is some information that you don't understand.Kristinn

[Gjest Tybring Hemphill]

Thank you Kristinn for the explanations - they make it very much clearer. Are you or Berit able, however, to read the information in the engagement record? It looks like it has lots of information, but I cannot tell what it says beyond the names. I suspect that they may have been married in a hurry as the date of birth that I have for their eldest son August is only 2 months after their marriage - however, I haven't found him in the church records so maybe the date is wrong.

[Gjest Berit Knudsen]

I can try, but I have trouble with the handwriting.De forlovedes navn (Name of the engaged couple): Ole Larsen Sundbye, batchelor and tailor (journeyman?) and the girl Petronette (Petronelle) Amundsdatter/ Alder (Age):he 25y she 23y./Føde og opholdsted (Where born, and where living at the time of the engagement): he:Born in Nannestad (Akershus), ..... tailor ... in Skippergaden (I belive he lived or worked or both in the house of tailor .... in Skipergaden. She:Born at Bærums Værk, and .........?/ Faderens navn (name of the father): he: carpenter Lars Olsen Sundbye eiet. She: Worker at Bærums Værk Amund Pedersen. Vaccination. I don't understand anything of it. Lysning: June 8,14 and 21. Married July 8. 1840 no.53.

[Gjest Tybring Hemphill]

Thanks Berit for the translation. When you know the language, at least you can guess the words!In #7 above, the marriage of Amund and Karen, were they married on the 'dato' of July 26 or the 'copul. datum' of Sept. 27.I have tried to find Amund Pedersen and Lars Sundby in the 1801 census. There is only one Lars Sundby - but I cannot tell what his living situation is - with some kind of teacher?[url="http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=6&filnamn=f1801&gardpostnr=8400&personpostnr=115130&merk=115130#ovre>LenkeAs for Amund Pedersen, I am not sure if Baerum is in Oslo where I found this entry or in Akershus, in which case I cannot seem to find the proper parish.

[Gjest Berit Knudsen]

Both Ole Larsen and Petronelle Amundsdatter came from or was born in Akershus. Akershus surrounds Oslo. Nannestad is on the east side and Asker(Bærum) on the west side of Oslo.Akershus: Bærum 'belonged to' Asker, but in 1854 Østre Bærum and in 1856 Vestre Bærum got their own churchregisters.(#7) Engaged 26/7 and married (Copul.(copulered)) 27/9 1812 Asker in Akershus batchelor Amund Pedersen and the girl Karen Christensdatter living at Thaaserud (I belive T(h)asserud is the right name) [url="http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7732&idx_id=7732&uid=ny&idx_side=-116>LenkeI belive this could be Amund Pedersen in 1801 LenkeBottom of the page for 1788: Amund bapt. 13/1 1788 Tanum church. He was born 3/1 at Kirkerud eie. Father Peder Amundsen and mother Anne Poulsdatter.And I belive this is Peder Amundsen an Anne Pouls/Paulsdt. in 1801

[Gjest Berit Knudsen]

Sorry, I forgot the 'lenke' to the bapt. in 1788, at the bottom of the right side Lenke

[Gjest Tybring Hemphill]

So far the trail has been blazed with fact thanks to the help of Berit and Kristinn - I could not have done this without you. As always with genealogy, there is more. It is both more interesting, but also more suspect. My great uncle said that his great great great great grandfather was a Lars Sundby of Stora Sundby Slott in Sweden, supposed to be the illegitimate child of Count Erik Sparre of that place. Supposedly, Lars was given some money to buy a farm in Norway and moved there, naming his farm and himself after his father's castle. Supposedly then he had a sone Ole Larsen Sundby who would have been born about 1740-1750, who in turn had a son Lars Olsen Sundby born in the 1770s who would have been the father of the 'skraedder' Ole Larsen Sundby born 1815. Often people invent stories to try to connect themselves to nobility and I suspect that is likely the case here - do you have any thoughts?Tybring

[Gjest Berit Knudsen]

My thoughts about this will not help you to find the truth. But the Sundby farms in Holter Nannestad and Bjørke Nannestad already existed in 1666 and 1617.

[Gjest Tybring Hemphill]

Thanks for the information Berit. It certainly makes the story as told impossible and suggests that it is entirely imagined, even if the imagining occurred a long time ago.How would one go about trying to find death dates for Ole Sundby and wife Petronelle? Is it a question of going through the church books year by year, first for the parish where they last appeared, then for others around it, or is there any larger index you are aware of?Thank you

[Gjest Berit Knudsen]

Ole L. Sundbye lived in Raadhusgaden 20 both in 1865 and 1875. In 1865 it was he who signed the census, and maybe he was the owner of the house. The first place I would look for their death would be Oslo Domkirke (Vår Frelsers menighet) and then Johannes menighet or Trefoldighet menighet.

[Gjest Berit Knudsen]

The death of Ole L. Sundbye no.5 and he is married Lenke I have not found the death of Petronelle between the death of Ole and 31/1 1900 in Domkirken.