[#68649] Alice Andersen or Raynert Ratcliffe

[Gjest Mark Ratcliffe]

We are trying to find any information about either of the above 2 relatives. My Great Great Grandfather (Raynert Ratcliffe) apparently came to Australia in about 1852-58 from Norway. His occupation was a miner. Rumours suggest Raynert came from the Bergen area? He married in Australia in 1865 & died here 1895 aged 54? It states Alice Andersen as his mother & Raynert Ratcliffe (farmer from Norway) as his father on his Marriage Certificate. We can't find a date of birth for him? Or country of origin. Apparently he spoke perfect English but was from a foreigner (from Norway). Raynert may have been mis-pronounced/interpreted from Reinert?Is anyone aware of any Reinert born about 1835-1845, that could've vanished from their families?in Norway?about 1855?Is anyone aware of an Alice Andersen probably born about 1815-30 that may have married a Reinert (farmer ) ?Our family has been searching for 40 years to verify his origin, but to no avail.Any help on this would be much appreciated !

[Gjest Torodd Kinn]

Dear Mark,I'm afraid I can't give you any certain clues, but I have some comments on the names of the people you're looking for.First, Reinert is a reasonable interpretation of 'Raynert'. The spelling could differ, e.g. -ej- or -ey- instead of -ei-, and the -t could be omitted. Also, the name could be Reier, Reiel, Reinhard or something of the kind (all with various spellings).If Reinert's father was also a Reinert, the most likely name to look for (in the son) is Reinert Reinertsen.'Alice' is probably Alis, Alet(te) or something similar. Many spellings here as well. 'Andersen' is not a name that you would expect for a woman. Rather, if she was the daughter of an Anders, she would be called Andersdatter. However, if she lived in a city/town, Andersen is a clear possibility, since names in -sen began to be used as proper family names earlier there than in the country.Finally, 'Ratcliffe'. This is definitely not a Norwegian name. If it's a Norwegian surname, it's probably the name of a farm or part of a farm. A search in 'Norske Gaardnavne' (Norwegian farm names) http://www.dokpro.uio.no/rygh_ng/rygh_felt.html for places beginning with an R and containing -kl- yields several possible farm names. Most of them end in -klev(en) or -kleiven (Røskleven, Rødklev, Ravnkleven, Ranklev, Ranneklev, Rongklev, Renskleven, Raukleiv), and there's one place called Ramseklove.My guess is that your Reinert came from (or stemmed from) one of these farms.All the best, Torodd

[Gjest Mark Ratcliffe]

Dear Torodd,Thankyou so much for getting back to me. Your comments are GREAT as have virtually nothing to go on. I feel it is simlar to searching for 'a needle in a haystack.'I really want to investigate this myself, from Australia, but I am unfamilar with the areas, as it has been a family mystery for some 40years plus. I have spent many hours reading & trying to understand the Norweign ways on the Digitalarkivet - but those naming conventions seem confusing.Two points I wondering if you could help me on;1. Could you briefly suggest how I could go about trying to find information about the possible farms you mentioned, details or records of inhabitants. Dates of Birth, Marriages, Deaths, etc Possible websites or places I should write to? (As I really wanted to research this myself.)2. Can you suggest a professional genelogist, that is familar with Norway, that would be prepared to perform some research, for me into this Raynert character, for a fee.Thanking you in anticipationMark Ratcliffe

[Gjest Heidi Tofterå Slettemoen]

Have you seen this thread? Are these the same Ratcliffe's?Question asked at Rootsweb: Would SKS have any information on a Raynert Ratcliffe, B 3rd Jan 1842, married Alice Anderson (b date unknown)... Answer states Raynert was born in Staffordshire! Lenke

[Gjest Heidi Tofterå Slettemoen]

Another query on the same people: Lenke

[Gjest Mark Ratcliffe]

Dear Heidi, Yes I have seen both these threads before. They are written by some of my distant relatives, ALL descendants from Raynert.We have almost all the history from when he got married in Maryborough, Victoria, Australia in 1867, but nothing prior. He just appears to have turned up in Australia. We don't even know the ship he arrived on?As you can see there have been many people searching over the past 40 years, but to no avail? Have you any further suggestions? Regards Mark Ratcliffe

[Gjest Heidi Tofterå Slettemoen]

Hi again, Mark,Since Ratcliffe is a quite common British name, I would think it wise to search the Staffordshire church records first. I am certain they have look up services! LenkeRatcliffe is not a Norwegian name, but as Torodd Kinn suggests, it might well be an Anglification of a Norwegian farm name. Moreover it is possible that Raynert Ratcliffe was a farmer (Britsh or Australian) and Alice Andersen his Norwegian wife? Have you seen the marriage certificate yourself?What about a death certificate for Raynert sr and Alice? Or did they not emigrate to Australia?The easiest is always finding out the most possible where they lived and died. Any clues will be helpful when searching for their ancestry. I am sure you know that allready! :)

[Gjest Mark Ratcliffe]

Hello Heidi, Thankyou for your ideas & clues. Without them I would be getting VERY frustrated. I will take your advice & search the church records.The only marriage certificate we have is Raynert Jnr, married in 1867 in Maryborough, Australia.Raynert Snr & Alice (nee Andersen) we can not find any record (Birth,Death or Marriage)of either of them in Norway or Australia or anywhere else in the world. We are beginning to think they never existed? In Norway. Both Raynert jnr & snr were 'FARMERS from NORWAY' as declared on Rayner jnr's Marriage certicate.Raynert just appears to have just landed in Australia. We have searched convict list & ships & no sign of him entering Australia. On his Death certificate 1895, it did state he had been in the clony for 37 years (ie maybe since 1858?). He died in 1895 apparently 54 yrs old ( ie maybe born circa 1841-42 ).Raynert best man was a Heinrich Jassian from Hamburg Germany, we have his Naturalisation Certificate, in Aust. Maybe Raynert was German?It has been suggested that he spoke perfect English. It has also been suggested that he migrated to Norway from either Germany of England.My Great Aunt has been to England & searched for 5 weeks into Raynert's possible originating from there....but she found no sign.He is a mystery man? Or has something to hide? Thanks AGAIN for you ideas Regards Mark Ratcliffe