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Gjest Frank McGuire

[#69927] Names interpretation

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Gjest Frank McGuire

I am trying to trace Christopher Tudor who arrived in Australia from Norway in about 1855. 1. I know that many migrants anglicised their names. Could someone for Norway please tell me if is it possible that the name Tudor (pronounced 'tyoodor' in Australia, could have been Theodor? 2. Is it possible that the name Christopher could have been Christian? Are these names interchanged in Norway? 3. He used the traditional Norwegian method of naming his first 3 children, except that his first son was named James, whereas he said in his marriage record that his father's name was Christopher. Is there a posible reason for this, and if so, is Jens the equivalent Norwegian name?

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Gjest Ivar S. Ertesvåg

1. Did he use 'Tudor' as a family name or as a second given name? 'tyoodor' could be Theodor. This name is however more 'english' than 'norwegian, so it is hard to imagine that he anglified Theodor to Tudor.2. Christopher and Christian are not interchanged in Norway.3. Historically, James is the equivalent to Jakob, which is used in Norway. But I think you have to know this to see the relation. Based on the pronunciation, without knwoing the 'theory', I think english James can be regarded as close to Norwegian Jens. There is no relation between Jens and Christopher.

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Gjest Ola Ljødal

Customary the children were named after their grand-parents.

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Gjest erling t. endresen

Do you know when he was born... or when and where he died? Age when he came to Australia? As Ivar mention, Christopher Theodor could be his given names, (or Theodor Christopher). You think that could be a possibility?(My great-grandfather was given the name 'Theodor', but he was always called 'Tudor' (TU-dor pronounced like 'Two'-dorr). That way of using the name Theodor is at least common in southern parts of Rogaland in south-west Norway.

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Gjest Ola Ljødal

My notice (3). The corrct would be: The FIRSTBORN children were named after their grand-parents.

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Gjest Frank McGuire

Many thanks for the responses. It looks that Theodor is a possibilty from the replies. In answer to some questions- The name 'Tudor' was his surname. He named his first daughter after the paternal grandmother , and his second son and second daughter after the maternal grand-parents. His first born son was named James, which is the puzzle. On the birth certificates of his first 2 children he gave his birth place as Norway, for the next 4 he gave it as Christiana, the next 3 as Arendal, and the last 3 as Christiana. It seems to be a puzzle that he has named locations so far apart. He would have been born in about 1832. He died in Australia in 1914, but no information was given on his death certificate about his parents and place of birth was given as Norway. The only document that states the names of his parents is his marriage certificate which says they were Christopher Tudor and Elisabeth. He arrived in Australian about 1855 as a ships deserter, which could also be a reason for using a false name. He gave false information on his naturalisation application about the ship he arrived on, and he stated his place of birth to be 'Arandal'. I have searched many ship crew records and the only feasible possibility (year, age and location) I have found is a Frerick Wilson from Sweden. I note that Norway was then part of Sweden, and he named one of sons as Frederick. He also stated place of birth on one document as Norway, Sweden. He also never made any attempt to contact family in Norway, which raise the possibilty that he left under unusual circumstances! I have been searching this for many years and connot find anyone who matches the criteria, but I am still searching through the records on-line. If anyone has any theories, please let me know.

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Gjest Ivar S. Ertesvåg

We can sort out some facts...His parents were called Christopher and Elisabeth; his father was also called 'Tudor'. He was probably born either in (or near) Christiania (Oslo) or Arendal, obout 1832.His surname Tudor could be some kind of anglification of a Norwegian name; or it could be made of a patronym (simplified from e.g. Theodorsen) - in this case it may be his father's patronym; or it could be a second given name that he (for some reason) choose to use as his surname in his new life. None of these alternatives were unusual. If the 2nd alternative is the case, he might have 'transferred' the simplification back to his father. (Or a misunderstanding of the officer that noted the information).The fact that he did not try to contact relatives at home does not tell anything. Quite a few emigrants simply 'disappeared' (that is, for the relatives).Did Australian authorities prosecute ship deserters? Or did ship captains/owners frequently try to take deserters to court? If not, there were little reason for giving false information.Do you know that he was on a Norwegian ship? Quite a few Norwegians sailed on foreign ships (Dutch, British, ...). BTW: Norway was not 'part of Sweden'. The union was relatively loose, as Norway had its own administration, national assembly, army and navy. Norwegian ships sailed under Norwegian flag. I think you can forget about Fredrick the Swede.The use of the name James for his first son, does not need to mean anything. Ola (3,5): We have discussed naming traditions several times in this forum. This 'rule' of naming is mainly based on subjective impressions. There is little or no empirical evidence that shows this as a 'rule'. You can find examples that shows this naming tradition - and you can find a host of exceptions.

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Gjest Tom Erik Grannes

For your information, and as a possible trace:On Tjugum graveyard in Balestrand we find the grave of Fredrik Tudor (1848-1911).teg

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Gjest Ketil Firing Hanssen

Fredrik Tudor is obviously a wrong track - he was an Irish merchant.

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Gjest Ola Ljødal

Nr. 7: No rule without exceptions! I presumed that Frank could have an interest in knowing about this widespread practice.

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Gjest Frank McGuire

Thanks again. In reply to Ivar, 1. Desertion from ship was an offence under Australian law, and there was prosecution,so there was reason for concealment. Many ships crews deserted in Australia at that time, due to the gold rush. 2. I agree that the name Tudor may have been made up. There was ship 'Tudor' in Australia at a similar time. 3. I cannot be sure what ship he arrived on. My best guess was based on one family story handed down, that he was on the same ship as the girl he later married. It was an English ship 'Thames'. I traced the 'Frederick Wilson' back to leaving an American ship 'Meteor' (from Boston) at Calcutta in Nov 1853, when it was in port for repairs. It would also explain how he came to meet up with her, when she was living on a farm a very long distance from the goldfields area which was the target for ships deserters, and she was only 16 when they married. (She was only 13 when arrived in Australia) 4. The only reason that I thought that the James was significant, was that he followed the naming tradition for all other of his 4 eldest children. 5. I could not find any Christopher, son of Chrstopher and Elisabeth, or Jens and Elisabeth in or near Arendal. 6. The only possibilities I have found are: -Christopher, son of Jens Jensen & Elisabeth Abrahamsdr, born at Hole 29/8/29, baptised 23/6/29 -Christopher, son of Christopher Larsen & Lisbeth Olsdr, born at Nannestad 15/2/31, baptised 27/2/32. I have found a couple of other Christophers married to Elisabeths, at Oslo, but no son Christopher. I found a Joachim Christopher Tudor, born at Kristiansand in 1831, parents Joachim Christopher Wiberg & Trine Frelsen- wrong place & wrong mother!

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