[#70273] Ole Brynnildsen & Johannes Olsen

[Gjest Carrol Press]

Thank you to Gunn Huglen, Anders Rofstad & Torodd Kinn for all the research/information sent me. In my original search for Johannes Olsen I found in LDS Vital Records Index birth of Johannes 1808. LDS records Johannes' father as Ole Olsen (no mother listed). In the marriage of Johannes to Cathrine Ingebrethsdattr, Oslo Co. Aker Parish 1829, there is recorded an Ole Olsen. I can see no indication in this record where it says Ole Olsen is Johannes father. Can I therefore assume that LDS has misinterpreted this record? I do understand that Olsen means son of Ole but this Ole Olsen recorded in various records caused much confusion. Thank you again, so very much & thank you Torodd Kinn for additional explanation and the map.

[Gjest Torodd Kinn]

You're very welcome, Carrol. It's nice to be able to help, especially foreigners -- yes, mostly Americans -- who struggle with the language in addition to the old handwriting.Can I suggest that when you want to follow up on a discussion you've started, you use the button 'New entry' (Norwegian: 'Nytt innlegg') below the previous messages (instead of starting a new topic). It will be easier for us helpers to get an overview of what's been found so far if it's collected in one place. :-)

[Gjest Carrol Press]

Ok Torodd. Now I understand. Thank you - will try to follow procedure.

[Gjest Carrol Press]

Could you tell me please what it says in the comments column in the marriage record for Johannes Olsen & Cathrine Ingebrentsdtr, Oslo Co. Aker 1829 page 510 & 511 (marriage December 1828) Have not been able to locate birth records for either person. LDS only list year of birth for both parties with no other information available. Also, what is a Kanthugger? All resources only list word 'hugger'. Thanks!

[Gjest Torodd Kinn]

Here's the marriage: Permanent sidelenke: [url="http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7703&idx_id=7703&uid=ny&idx_side=-386>Lenke Permanent bildelenke:

[Gjest Torodd Kinn]

Here's the pre-marriage protocol (to the right): Permanent sidelenke: [url="http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7711&idx_id=7711&uid=ny&idx_side=-124>Lenke Permanent bildelenke:

[Gjest Torodd Kinn]

I'd say there's a good chance this is Johannes's baptism in 1808: Permanent sidelenke: [url="http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7401&idx_id=7401&uid=ny&idx_side=-286>Lenke Permanent bildelenke: LenkeParents: Ole Brynnildsen and Olea Berntsd[atte]rAnd here his confirmation in 1824: Permanent sidelenke: Lenke Permanent bildelenke:

[Gjest Torodd Kinn]

This may be Katrine's confirmation (no 11 to the right): Permanent sidelenke: [url="http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7647&idx_id=7647&uid=ny&idx_side=-259>Lenke Permanent bildelenke: LenkeI'm not able to read the entry properly, but it seems she wasnt't living with her parents. Her birth is given as 18th of September 1803.The church books for Eidsvoll have been lost in fire, so there's no possibility of finding her baptism. But it could be possible to identify the parents via the 1801 census.Note that Embret (here: Embreth) is the same name as Ingebrekt, Engebregt, Imbret, etc.A married man, 37 years old, wife Mari Christophersdatter, 40 years old: LenkeA bachelor, 22 years old: LenkeAnother bachelor, 21 years old:

[Gjest Torodd Kinn]

Regarding Ole Olsen vs. Ole Brynilsen: Ole Brynilsen's wife was Olea Berntsdatter. The name Bernt reappears on Johannes' son Bernt. If it right that Johannes Olsen was the son of Ole Brynilsen, then Bernt Johannessen was named after his great-grandfather.

[Gjest Torodd Kinn]

Kanthugger: kant = edge, hugger = cutter. A kanthugger was someone who cut the sides of logs/wooden material so that the material came to have a square circumference.

[Gjest Carrol Press]

Once again, I thank you very much for all your input/research on my behalf.After reading almost every parish record in Norway for 1808 &- years between and not finding anyone I thought would be my Johannes, I'm sure, as you say, the priest/minister erred. My question now is - if the minister erred that takes care of the marriage record but in the Best Man's Statement (you call them 'sponsors' - paying witnesses)the father is Ole Olsen. Is the statement of the best man written by someone 'hired' - as you say, paid,to stand up for the groom? In Canada the best man is usually a very good friend or perhaps a brother of the groom who knows the groom extremely well and would most definitely know who his father is.After reading information on some of the Norwegian naming practices I was interested in your comment re Bernt being named after his g-grandfather - that didn't occur to me as I was never looking for an Olea Berntsdtr (or anyone named Brynilsen)but it certainly makes sense.Thanks too for definition of Kanthugger - I could find 'kant' but no 'hugger' - not that it solves any mystery for me but good to know!

[Gjest Torodd Kinn]

Hi again!Actually, the statement from the best men does NOT tell the name of the fathers, so the name Ole Olsen for Johannes' father appears only in the marriage record.The name Ole Olsen in the best men's statement is just the name of the first best man. Below the name it says 'm. p. P.', an abbreviation for 'med paaholden Pen', which means that Ole Olsen wasn't able to write his own name.The best men's statement is first of all a testimony that the bride and groom are who they say they are, and that neither is engaged to anyone else.

[Gjest Torodd Kinn]

See LenkeAt her confirmation in Ullensaker, Katrine was called Baarlie. Bårli is a farm in Eidsvoll. So she had some connection to that place, and if it's possible to identify an Embret Olsen there in the 1820s, it's probably her father.In the 1865 census there are several Embretsen and Embretsdtr. at Bårli, but I'm not able to make a connection between any of them and an Embret Olsen.

[Gjest Carrol Press]

Don't know how you found that information on Cathrine but again, my thanks. Well, here I go again! I think I have the marriage for parents of Jorgine Mathea Nilsen, wife of Bernt Johannessen. The marriage is 26 Nov 1828 Oslo Domkirke. Parents of Jorgine are Erick/Erik/Erich) Nielsen & Marthe Abelone (Nielsen) (in confirmation of Jorgine). LDS records the mother as Christensdr Falck. One of the witnesses at this 1828 marriage is Ingebret Olsen. Is it possible that this Ingebrent Olsen is Cathrine's father? I don't understand the proximity of the counties but these people seem to be connected/entwined. There are so many people with the same name I suppose one had to live there to understand how anyone knew who was who. Is it possible that someone from Ullensaker/Eidsvoll would have events recorded in Oslo Domkirke or Oslo Hospital? Thanks - again - I hope you don't tire of me and all my questions.

[Gjest Torodd Kinn]

I think you must have mixed something up now :)There's no Embret Olsen involved in the marriage you're referring to.Here's the marriage (no. 85): Permanent sidelenke: [url="http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7377&idx_id=7377&uid=ny&idx_side=-16>Lenke Permanent bildelenke: LenkeAnd here's the statement from the best men (top left): Permanent sidelenke: Lenke Permanent bildelenke:

[Gjest Carrol Press]

Yes, sorry I have another Erik Nielsen marriage - the wrong one so was getting confused. It wouldn't make sense anyway that an Ingebret Olsen in either marriage would be Catherine's father. Should have given this a lot more thought! I very much appreciate all your help, many, many thanks! Carrol

[Gjest Carrol Press]

Is there a chance you could find the parents of Ole Brynildsen? According to the census sent me he would be b. about 1769. I have a few possibilities from LDS IGI but don't know what parish someone from Langenes would frequent. From LDS: Ole Brynildsen b. Apr 30 1769, Stomperud, Holand, Akershus, parents Brynild Madsen & Guri Knudsen. Another b. Mar 8, 1770 Halden, Osfold (christened Aug 24, 1771) Parents Brynild Olsen & Isabella Margrethe Andreasdr. Another b. June 10 1770, Trogstad. Father Brynild Aase - no mother listed.Also an Ole Brynildsen b 6 Jan 1762 along with a number of siblings b. to Brynild Olsen & Johanne Andersdatter, Idd, Ostfold.I have found the ancestry for Olea Berntsdtr no problem but LDS doesn't seem to have a connection for Ole other than his marriage to Olea. Thanks!