[#71807] Need interpretation.

[Gjest Gene Nelson]

I cannot read this marriage entry for Torris Tollefsen and Anne Torkildsdatter's marriage. Does it list their parents or farm names? Any help is appreciated. See link from page 385, item 22, 1777 Stjødal Marriage Records.Lenke

[Gjest Egil Glørud]

'Copul d. 22 AprilTörris Tollovsen und: den 24 Mart: Trol: med besvangret Anna Torkilsd. Boende Plads under Huusbye.Cau: Lars og Henrich Huusbye'Translated: Married 22nd April. T. T. 24th March betrothed to (with?) pregnant Anna T. Living at croft under Huusbye. Best men: L. og H. H.Possibly this large farm: LenkeI guess we find his father there with his second wife.Egil G.

[Gjest Grete Singstad Paulsen]

Egil - det kan da ikke være faren, det er han for ung til. Husk, Törris Tollovsen giftet seg i 1777.

[Gjest Egil Glørud]

Nei, selvsagt ikke ....Men forloveren Lars er vel der?Egil

[Gjest Egil Glørud]

Uff.....Feil igjen - forloveren Henrik skulle det vært.

[Gjest Egil Glørud]

Anne som enke i 1801 - og barnet hun var fruktsommelig med i 1777, ble tradisjonelt døpt Tollef: Lenke

[Gjest Gene Nelson]

Thanks for the information provided. The following links provides information on Torris Tollofsen's christening and death; Christening: 1751-under Schatvold first page [url="http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=16370&idx_id=16370&uid=ny&idx_side=-176>LenkeIs there information that will better indentify Torris's father?Death: 1785-page 116 at Bottom.

[Gjest Grete Singstad Paulsen]

Maybe this is Torris brother: Hans, christening 29. Dec. 1748. Father: Tollef Hansen Auran. Test: Hans Hansen, Peder Hansen, Halvor Pedersen, Ranni, Riborg, Auran.Nord-Trøndelag fylke, Stjørdal, Ministerialbok nr. 709A04 (1740-1756), Kronologisk liste 1749, side 123. Lenke

[Gjest Gene Nelson]

Thanks Grete. I think you are right. Looking at GNR 5 FOSSEN indicates that Mali Torrisdtr Dahl marries (gift 23.04.1748) Tollef (Torlief) Hansen from Auran indre GNR 73/1.They have the following children as listed on page 31 of the new Skatval bygebok: Hans Peder døpt 29.12.1748 Torris døpt 01.11.1751 Ivar døpt 11.08.1754 Mali døpt 06.06.1756 Peder dø14.10.1759 Again thanks, I think we have found Torris's father and mother. Now for Anne Torkildsdtr father and mother. Gene Nelson

[Gjest Egil Glørud]

Hi Gene,I'm afraid we need some new research to find Anne Torkildsd.'s parents...E.g. her birth year varies in the sources, census 1801 and Stjördalsboka - and there is more confusion.Census 1801: 57 y.o. - birth ca. 1844. Stjördalsboka II, 1 - Husbymarken: ANNE TORKILDSD. REBERG, born 1854 (Gnr. 101-102 Husby). Stjördalsboka II, 2 - gnr. 113 Re (Ree) - Torkildplassen: Anne, christned Jan. 13, 1837, married to Tellef Törrisen Husbymarken ... (!). Parents: Torkild Olsen (1701-1756) and Guru Pedersdtr. Ree-plass (1708 - ?), marr. Sept. 14, 1735. Guru P.'s parents also listed.If this last Anne is Törres' wife there must be a 'printing error' conc. her husband's name in Stjördalsboka II, 2. Her birth year also varies very much from the entry in the 1801 census. Too old ... ???Have not yet looked up the church records about her.Found some more interesting info. in my search. More about that later.

[Gjest Egil Glørud]

Page ref., Stjördalsboka:Husbymarken, II,1 - p. 509Torkildplass, II, 2 - p. 375

[Gjest Gene Nelson]

Today I Googled 'Reberg' and came up with someone's huge genealogical database('My Big Family' by someone from Denmark) that has many of the same people that I am interested in. It included Anne Torkildsdatter and her family: Father- Torklid Olsen Reberg-born 1701 Stjørdal-begrav 22.6.1756. Mother- Guru Pedersdtr born 1708 in Stjørdal-gift 14.9.1735 Had 9 Children. Anne Torkildsdtr Reberg (1)born 1.5.1751-begra 18.5.1751 Anne Torkildsdtr Reberg (2)born 13 Jan 1754-gift Torris Tollefsen 22.4.1777. The problem I have is I can find the first Anne's birth in the Digitalarkivet Church records but not the second Anne. Any suggestions. Thanks to everyone for all your help. Gene Nelson

[Gjest Gene Nelson]

Some additional information regarding Anne Torkildsdtr. List of Torkild Olsen and Guru Pedersdtr children. 1 Ola Torkildsen christened on 09 Oct 1735. 2 Karen Torkildsdtr. 3 Anne Torkildsdtr (1) christened on 13 Jan 1739. 4 Peder Torkildsen christened on 02 Feb 1739. 5 Peder Torkildsen christened on 21 Jul 1745. 6 Jon Torkildsen christened 22 Jan 1747. 7 Marit Torkildsdtr christened on 25 Feb 1748. 8 Anne Torkildsdtr (2) christened on 01 May 1751. Begrav 18 May 1751. 9 Anne Torkildsdtr (3) christened on 13 Jan 1754. As Egil Glrud, Bergan has stated, there is something interesting here. Unfortunately, I do not have immediate access to the Stjørdalsboka II to view what he has written. I will keep looking. Gene Nelson

[Gjest Egil Glørud]

Did you find the 1751-Anne in the church records? I didn't, but may have overlooked. The 13 January-Anne, however, was born 1737 - 3rd fr. top, right in link:Kildeinformasjon: Nord-Trøndelag fylke, Stjørdal, Ministerialbok nr. 709A03 (1730-1739), Fødte og døpte 1737, side 641-642. Permanent sidelenke: [url="http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=16369&idx_id=16369&uid=ny&idx_side=-82>LenkeI'm afraid the 1754-Anne is an 'invention' in Stjørdalboka ...If she was born in 1737 she had children till late in her forties - possible, but rare.We only have Stjørdalsboka as secondary source that Tørres' wife was from Reberg (Torkildplassen), but the childrens' names fit perfecly. So that should be correct.Anne's mother side gr. parents in Stjørdalsboka. Her father possibly from/serving at BY - cf. best men - top right in link:Kildeinformasjon: Nord-Trøndelag fylke, Stjørdal, Ministerialbok nr. 709A03 (1730-1739), Forlovererklæringer 1735, side 855-856. Permanent sidelenke:

[Gjest Gene Nelson]

I found an Anne Torkildsdtr in 1751 (page 151)under the Wernes parish records which is questionable. Father was Torchil Rxxxx (reberg?). Link is Lenke I question if this is the right Anne. Gene Nelson

[Gjest Egil Glørud]

Main thing: Tørres' wife is certainly Anne Torkildsd. from Reberg, 'Torkildsplassen', under Re / Reberg. Closer look at lists of godparents of their children might contribute to prove it.There is however some confusion about her birth date. We find what may appear as 4 (?) diff. (?) Anne in church records, census 1801 and in Stjørdalsboka. My guess is that there was only one or maybe two Anne. The confusion may be the result of various errors - inaccurate church and census records etc.Adding copies of two relevant pages from Stjørdalsboka.The 1737-Anne may not have grown up. Girl born 1851 is given the same name. Although it was not uncommon to have 2 children with the same name, the name choice may also be due to the death of their first Anne. Acc. to Stjørdalboka should the 1851-Anne have been buried on May 18th, 1751. Cannot find that in church records. However, S.boka also have wrong christening date - this Anne was christened on New Years day, 1751, consequently born in Dec. 1850. On the other hand, we find the sister Marit buried Dom. Quasim. (1st S. after Easter) 1751. Church record showing age as 3 weeks, but should have been 3 years.... Link, left hand page, middle:Kildeinformasjon: Nord-Trøndelag fylke, Stjørdal, Ministerialbok nr. 709A04 (1740-1756), Kronologisk liste 1751, side 161. Permanent sidelenke: LenkeStjørdalsb. mixing Anne b. 1750 (51) and Marit d. 1751? (Adding to other 'strange' dates in that book.)Trying to explain Anne aged 57 in census 1801. Could be a simple misreading when reg. for Digitalarkivet - 57 inst. of 51 ???Stjørdalsboken's birth year 1754 based on death record? May be diff. to verify due to incomlete church records.Conclusion: a case can be made for birth year 1750???Egil

[Gjest Egil Glørud]

The other page from Stjørdalsboka added here.Forgot to comment Gene's dicovery of Anne's christening in 1751. Certainly 'our' couple's child - father: T. Rheebergeje (= a croft under Reberg).Anne's pregnancy at marriage was not with Tollef, but the sad story is here - at bottom left page in link:Kildeinformasjon: Nord-Trøndelag fylke, Stjørdal, Ministerialbok nr. 709A05 (1755-1780), Kronologisk liste 1777, side 284. Permanent sidelenke: Lenke'Buried T. Huusbyeklejven's 2 still born children - one boy, one girl'.This also gives theri 'address' more precisiously as Husbykleiven.Egil

[Gjest Gene Nelson]

Hi Egil, You are doing really great. It's hard for a non-Norsk speaking person to make sense out of or even be able to read some of the information. Got a question- you said that Anne's pregnancy at marriage was not with Tollef-however the sentence reads Begrav Torris Huusbyeklejven's 2 still born- does not that imply that Torris was the father? Also have another link to decipher about Torchel Rhee and Anne in 1737-page 642 about one third way down page. Lenke Thanks for everything. Gene Nelson

[Gjest Egil Glørud]

This is the Anne who in Stjørdalsb. TORKILDPLASSEN was married to 'Tellef Tørrisen' (should obviously have been Tørris Tellefsen) - and who I think may have died young (bef. 1751 - but so far only my suspicion).Under HUSBYMARKEN in Stjørd.b. Tørris' wife (more correctly ?) is born 1754. I think this is the same Anne who is christened Jan. 1st 1751 and in census 1801 has age 57 (which may be a 'printing error' for 51).Church record 1737:'Fest. Grat. at Vernes confirmed Torchel Rhee berget's child's christening Ane. Godparents: ... 'The 2 still born children 1777: From the church record you started with asking for help in translating we have that Anne was 'besvangred' (with child) when betrothed to Tørris. The birth was 2 months after marriage. Of course we will never know whether Tørris was the real father... But as married husband he is the juridical father.The entry in the church record about her pregnancy at marriage is quite unusual. Actually, it was quite common - almost a rule :-) - that 1st child was born quite soon after marriage without any mention in church records about premarital sex....Was Anne a widow when marrying Tørres, former hsuband just died? Or is this the writing of a very 'moralistic' priest?You seem to have understood already a lot of these cryptical church records etc. for not beeing Norw. speaking.Egil

[Gjest Egil Glørud]

A bit more explanation about what I meant with 'pregnant with Tollef' in item (17):Should mean: pregnant (by Tørres) with son Tollef... I had in annother item implied that the son Tollef in census 1801 was the result of the pregnancy mention when marrying Tørres. That was obviously wrong.Also the church record about the still born children is interesting for linking Tørres to Husbykleiven which is the name (same as?) still in use for a part of the Husby farm - and overlooked in Stjørdalsboken.

[Gjest Gene Nelson]

Hi again Egil, I did a quick scan of the church records from 1735 to 1756 and found the following information. 1. Oluf Torkildsen born 1735-bottom of page 618. [url="http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=16369&idx_id=16369&uid=ny&idx_side=-70>Lenke 2. Anne Torkildsdtr born 1737-near top page 642. page.Lenke 3. Peder/karen (?) born 1739-middle of page 706. Lenke 4. Peder Torkildsen born 1742-top of page 24. Lenke 5. Peder Torkildsen born 1743-top of page 43. Lenke 6. Marit Tolkildsdtr born 1745-near bottom page 73. Lenke 7. Joen Tolkildsen born 1747-near bottom 2nd page 90. Lenke 8. Anne Tolkildsdtr born 1751-near top of 2nd page 155. Lenke I expect that there is a child between Joen and Anne (1747 and 1751) but I didn't find one. I also found that Tolkild Olsen died in 1756-top of page 8. Lenke Also you mentioned Torris Toffefsen's death.He died in 1785. bottom of page 116.

[Gjest Gene Nelson]

Have a couple of questions regarding Torkild Olsen Rhe's family. 1. Need deciphering of Torkild Olsen's baby name on middle of page 706-year 1739. Looks like Peder or something. [url="http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=16369&idx_id=16369&uid=ny&idx_side=-115>Lenke2. In the parish records, Egil has pointed out that there is a descripency in Marit's death listed as dying in 1751 being 3 days old. Middle of page 161. Lenke Previous parish records show Marit being born in 1745-Middle of page 73. Lenke Marit is shown also born in 1748-page 108-bottom right side.

[Gjest Egil Glørud]

Yes, PEDER, is correct. That's how they wrote cap. P at the time.I think it is more likely that is was the Marit born in 1748 who died in 1751. The entry in church records of '3 Uger' (3 weeks) is an understandable 'misprint' for '3 Aar' - 3 years. If she had been 6 years old, the error - and there must be an error - is less understandable. Sure there is not annother burial of the first Marit in the per. 1745 - 48? Deaths/burials may be entered as 'Parent ...', 'begraved ...', 'kastet jord paa ...'Egil

[Gjest Gene Nelson]

Hi Egil, Searched the 1745 thru 1748 parish records and found a couple of statements that I don't understand.First one in 1745-middle right hand page 74 under Wænes, relating to jord paa and a Marit. [url="http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=16370&idx_id=16370&uid=ny&idx_side=-76>LenkeThe second statement in 1746-lower right hand page 79, relating to a public absolv for Torchel Reberg.

[Gjest Ivar S. Ertesvåg]

p. 74 'Kasted Jord paa [Graveside ceremony for] 1. Marit Vipstabakken 2. ...'p.79 'Publice absolv: Torchel Reberge og Qvinde [and wife] for barneskade''barneskade' literally means 'child harm' (harm by or towards child).