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Gjest Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen

[#73847] Torjer Salvesen emigrantion

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Gjest Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen

Is there any way to check the originial emigration document for Kristiansand, see:LenkeIt shows Torjer Salvesen emigrated from Kristiansand on 29 Oct 1880, but it looks as if the other information (occupation and residence) was copied from the record above his.I am trying to determine if this is Torger Salvesen, b 1854 in Stavanger, son of Torger Salvesen Egelandsdal & Laurentse Svendsdtr. I found his confirmation in Stavanger (DK) in 1869, but no sign of him after that.About his surname -- Torger Salvesen Egelandsdal's children seem to have taken his surname, although at this time, I would have expected they would be Torgersen/Torgersdatter.Torger's brother Laurits (b 1857 DK) emigrated with his wife in 1882. So, it's reasonable to think he was following his older brother...I would appreciate any assistance.Hilsen Patti Mikkelsen

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Gjest Øystein Djuv-Stiansen

I'm sorry to dash your expectations, but I'm afraid the Torje Salvesen you found in the Kristiansand emigration record is not the Torger Salvesen you're looking for.Torger is a boy's name, but Torje is a lady's name ('pike' means girl), and the Torje Salvesen you have found emigrated from a place called Nissedal in Telemark together with several other ladies her own age, all from Nissedal. She was born 1854.Øystein

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Gjest Øystein Djuv-Stiansen

On the other hand there is a Torkel Salvesen emigrating in 1880 from Stavanger. He is recorded as born 1858 in Helleland. This might be your Torger (even though the two names are different the protocol could have been misspelt)Lenke

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Gjest Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen

ØysteinThank you for your reply. However, the name in question is Torjer, not Torje. I have seen this spelling for men (my great-grandfather, for example). The fact that the record seems to be a man, but was labeled 'pige', seemed odd. Note that under 'sex' it shows 'M'. That is the main reason I suspected it was an error.Also, I searched the 1865 census for all of Norway, and found no Torje/Torjer Salvesen/Salvesdatter born about 1854. The women shown above him are sisters, all born in Nissedal. He does not seem to be connected... at least, that was my impression.I was hoping the original manifest existed somewhere in the archives, and that I could find out what was written there.Again, thanks for your assistance.Hilsen Patti

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LenkeAs you see, Torjer / Thargier/ Tarjer is a woman's name.. I think the Torjer Salves. you found, Patti, is a woman....

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Gjest Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen

Thanks to all of you who have responded.Iver, you see my confusion! The Torger you found is 'my' Torger. He was the son of Torger Salvesen, born 1854. In 1865, the children are shown with Torgersen surname, but later, they all took Salvesen.Erling -- you know much more about traditional Norwegian names than I do. I searched the 1900 census for all of Norway. I found 18 men and 17 women with the given name Torjer. Most of the women were in Vest-Agder. Anyway, that is why I did not rule out that this Torjer, who emigrated in 1880, might be male.I had hoped that an original of the source document existed so that I could see if the information about him/her was the same, or if it was a transcription error.Again, thanks to you all for your feedback.Hilsen Patti

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LenkeWhen his grand-son was babt. in Stavanger in 1885, Gustav Alfred Elmberg, babt 22.02.1885 in Domkirken, Torger Salvesens wife Madam Laurentze Salvesen was one of the witnesses.

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LenkeWhen his grand-son was babt. in Stavanger in 1885, Gustav Alfred Elmberg, babt 22.02.1885 in Domkirken, Torger Salvesens wife Madam Laurentze Salvesen was one of the witnesses.

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LenkeWhen Laurentze Salvesen died 25.01.1895, Domkirken, it is said that she was devorced....

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Sorry... I see now that I find things about persons that you don't ask for..... silly me!You ask for their son Torger... born 1854....

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Gjest Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen

Erling -- not silly at all! This was useful information. Can you tell from that burial record if Torger (senior, born 1822 in Heskestad) is still alive when Laurentze died? I have searched in every Stavanger file from 1895-1900 and did not find a record of his death. Also, I can't find him in 1900 census.In 1900, children, Sikke Bergitte, Gustav and Alette are married and living in Stavanger. Laurits emigrated to America in 1884, and I can't find Torger. Maybe the senior Torger immigrated?? But in 1900, he would have been 78 years old.I think I've taken this family as far as I can...Thanks again for your help.mvh Patti

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Iver! I am embarassed to realize that I was looking at the wrong Torger! Salve Torgersen & Gunvor Gundersdatter had two sons with similar names. The first was named Torje, born 23 Sep 1822 at Egelandsdal in Heskestad. The second was named Torger, born 14 Oct 1826 in Stavanger (DK). Clearly, it was the younger Torger who married Laurentse & later Marie.I can't explain why I thought it was the older one. I must have had a reason, but I can't figure it out now! I'm just glad you posted that information, so I realized my mistake. I looked for a record of the death of the older Torje, but didn't find anything. I also didn't find his confirmation in Stavanger. He must have died.Any idea when Torger married Marie?Thanks again, Iver!mvh Patti

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Hi!! – Hope you are sleeping well.Sometimes we have to go back to the very beginning to find out what we are looking for.Is it the family of this man you are looking for?Lenke (Norwegians in 1880 census IOWA Torje Salveson male 54 yrs f widower Center Winnebago )I cannot find any information, telling that this Torje is the son of Salve Torjusen and Gundvor Gundersen (Sirdal-Heskestad-Stavanger). But if you have any other kind of link between any American Torje or Torger (Salvesen) and these parents, please, let us know.Children of Salve Torjusen and Gundvor Gundersen:1.Aasa 1817 2.Gunnar 1819 3.Torje 1822 (54 yrs in IOWA census 1880???) 4.Siri 1821 5.Tonette Serine 1829 6.Torger 1826 (Sea-man. Living in Stavanger The one who married Laurentse & later Marie). 7.Grethe Sicelia 1833I do not know when Torger Salvesen married his second wife,Marie. I do not think we will find him in any church-record.(Not for divorced) His divorce must have been some years before 1885? His second marriage must have been before 1900.Torger (1826) was a sea-man, having his home in Stavanger all his life. I will not be surprised if his older brother Torje also went to sea. (Sure he could have emigrated to America.)A lot of Norwegian sea-men emigrated to America, but many of them arrived America by working on ships (-Therefore, missing in the passenger lists) Many of them settled down in the east-coast area (New York-Brooklyn) and the area for the “sea-road” between Chicago and St.Lawrance river (NB:Ontario?). The mid-west was first of all an area for farmers. The children of Salve/Gundvor had no farming-experience. The Salvesen-family arrived Stavanger already about 1825.IM

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Gjest Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen

Good Morning, Iver!About that family in Iowa: I searched the census records for Iowa. The name spellings were horrible, so it was very difficult to follow Torje & Salve through the years. I found both of them in 1880, and Salve in later years. The 1920 census shows year of immigration (1880 for Salve). From that, I found what may be his immigration record -- arrived 27 April 1880 in Philadelphia on a ship named 'The Pennsylvania'. I went through all 37 pages of the manifest. Salve (age 10) is listed alone. My best guess is that his father, Torje, was a crew member. At this time, the crew was not listed on the manifest. The 1880 census for Winnebago county Iowa was done in June, so it's possible this immigration record is a match.So... is this man (Torje Salvesen, b ca 1826) 'my' Torger? I don't know. I don't have a record of him having a son named Salve, born ca 1870. He was born after the youngest known child of Torger & Laurentse (Georgine Cæcilie, 1862-1865).Is it likely that a life-long seaman like Torger would settle in Iowa as a farmer?Question-- why do you say that Torger's divorce must have been some years before 1885?Another question -- you wrote that his second marriage would probably not be in the church records. Is that because the church does not sanction divorce?Regarding the family you mention -- this is the same one I have... except I didn't have Aasa (b 1817). Your theory is that the man in Iowa is the older Torje... but his age in the 1880 census is closer to the younger Torger. I have a gap for Torger (b 1826) between the 1865 and 1900 censuses. Perhaps he left Norway for America and that is why Lorentse divorced him???One last note -- my grandfather walked off the boat in New York about 1904. Because he was a crew member, he's not listed on the manifest, so I don't know the precise date of his landing. On his citizenship papers, he stated that he arrived in 1903, but the date and ship name do not match actual arrivals for that year. A man at the US National Archives told me that before a certain year, US immigration did not require proof of landing, so immigrants could (and often did) say they arrived earlier than they really did. In later years, the US govt got smarter and began to ask for proof! Also, later manifests listed crew members. But this does not help me in my research about my grandfather!All for now...mvh Patti

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Thanks ErikThat answers the question about the family in Iowa. Clearly, it is these two, although I don't know why Torje was not listed on the passenger manifest. Here is Torje/Tarjei in 1865 at Stedjan in Omlid:LenkeI found a record on FamilySearch for the birth of their son, Salve in Mar 1870.Again... thank you ErikHilsen Patti

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Gjest Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen

Thank you again, ErikUnfortunately, this cannot be the Torje/Torger I am looking for. There were two brothers -- Torje Salvesen b 1822 at Egelandsdal in Heskestad and Torger Salvesen b 1826 in Stavanger.I was searching for the older Torje, and that man in Iowa looked like a possibility. My best guess is that he died before the birth of Torger in 1826.The second Torger (b 1826) is in Stavanger in 1865 and 1900. But his first wife divorced him. I wondered if he made a trip to America after 1865 and that was the reason for the divorce. But now, thanks to your help, I see that the man in Iowa is not related to this family at all.Hilsen Patti

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Info from Stavanger Byarkiv:kommunal folketelling 1900 bodde skipper Torger Salvesen (73 år) i Waisenhusgt 46 sammen med sin hustru Marie 32 år. De leide værelser som husholdning nr 3.Kommunal folketelling 1901 opplyser at forhenværende skipper og 'handelsborgerskap' Torger Salvesen (74 år) bodde i Oscarsgt 4 sammen med sin hustru Marie (32 år). Her leide de også værelser som husholdning nr 3. Det er ikke funnet informasjon om Torger Salvesen i senere folketellinger.Which indicates that Torger Salvesen died in Stavanger between 1901 and 1911, or that he left Stavanger...Erling T

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Gjest Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen

Hei ErlingWas 1911 the next census?Thank you for searching for me.Hilsen Patti

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I agree, Iver. I think this Tarjei (at Stedjan) is the one who lived later in Iowa. No relation to the one I was looking for.Hilsen Patti

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Yes, right, next census for the Stavanger kommune in 1911, 1915,1922.... They are free as long as they are made by communal initiative.The census for 1910 for the whole country will come, digital, next year. They are free after 100 years....

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