[#74032] Sted-/gårdsnavnet Oven/Owen/Aaven i Ås/Drøbak-området

[Gjest Leif Salicath]

Jeg har hatt en tråd under DIS-forum Hjelp til tyding av kildemateriale: [url="http://www.disnorge.no/slektsforum/viewtopic.php?t=83811>Lenke hvor en etterhvert er kommet frem til at personen/familien det gjelder har et slikt etternavn.I ft1801 for Berg (Halden) finner en familien hvor hovedpersonen er skipper Svend Nielsen Oven LenkeI 1797 døpte han en sønn Friderich Andreas i Ås, Akershus hvor hans navn synes å være Svend Nielsen Aaven LenkeHan gifter seg med Elen Maria Frantzdatter i Ås, Akershus 14. januar samme år LenkeJeg har søkt på Norske Gaardsnavne av O. Rygh

[Gjest Iver Mosvold]

Siden vi befinner oss på østsiden av Oslo-fjorden er det vel grunn til å tro at Owen/Oven/Aaven kan være et navn tatt fra Ovenø i Råde.Man finner stedsnavnet AAVEN finner man i ”Postadressebog for Norge 1901” [url="http://www.slektsdata.com/Boeker/Post1901/pa.pdf>http://www.slektsdata.com/Boeker/Post1901/pa.pdf Aaven er da plassert i Råde, Smaalenenes amt.I alle fall døpes en SVEND på sexuagesimasøndagen 1765 med Niels HansenOvenøen og Joran Svendsdatter som foreldre i Råde. (Øverst helt til høyre)

[Gjest Iver Mosvold]

Ovenøen i Råde FT1801: LenkeIM

[Gjest Iver Mosvold]

Det er vel meget sannsynlig at OVENØEN nå kalles GRINDHOLMEN, -siden gårdsnavnet ÅVEN eksisterer den dag i dag på nettopp på denne øya.GRINDHOLMEN er vel kjent for båtfolket som ferdes mellom Moss og Fredrikstad.IM

[Gjest Iver Mosvold]

Svend Nielsen Oven sine foreldre Nils Hansen og Joran Svendsdatter, inngikk ekteskap 4.juni 1745 i Råde. (Om man klarer du å tyde det som står nesten nederst i spalten lengst til venstre Lenke )En FS-kilde knytter faren (NILS HANSEN) opp mot gårdsnavnet HUSEBY.(I så fall er han født 16 des.1713) Moren (JORAN SVENDSEN) skal være født 15.jun 1716 (Det tviler jeg på). – Da passer det kanskje bedre med 24.nov.1720. (Selv om også det er noe drøyt når man blir mor i 1765) Kanskje hennes foreldre var Svend Olsen(eller Pedersen) Sogn og Kirsti Halvorsen Brødløs.(NB: MED ALLE RESERVASJONER)(Personer fra Huseby i Råde tror jeg det er forsket mye på.)Men noe av dette har kanskje bygdebok-litteraturen mer orden på.

[Gjest Leif Salicath]

Tusen takk Iver.Dette er fantastisk, og jeg må jo enda en gang si hvor imponert jeg er over all god hjelp som er å få på Webdebatt.Da faller alt på plass. Jeg hadde jo forsøkt å søke både på dåp og konfirmasjon på de fleste stedene, men hadde vel glemt Råde. Svend er riktig person, ingen tvil om det.mvh Leif

[Gjest Leif Salicath]

Her la vi inn post samtidig.Jeg lurer bare litt på om ikke hustruen skal hete Jøran - ikke Joran. På alle steder i kb står det noen (') over ?Veldig godt gjort å lese den vielsen. Jeg ser det nå når jeg ble gjort oppmerksom på det.Jeg lurer ellers på om ikke Svend Nielsen giftet seg på nytt rett etter 1801, for jeg finner det samme navn med ny hustru og flere barn i årene etter, men ingen Elen Maria (og da i Berg kb).

[Gjest Iver Mosvold]

Jeg må jo innrømme at jeg bruker Family Search som hjelpemiddel for å finne fram i kirkebøkene. Bokstaven ”? blir derfor fort til ”O”, men akkurat vedr. kvinnenavnet Joran/Jøran så, så har jo begge varianter vært i bruk. Men du har antakelig rett i at den vesle tøddelen over O, indikerer at rett navn er JØRAN, - særlig hvis man er konsekvente med denne tøddelen.Når det gjelder et eventuelt ekteskap nr. 2 for Svend Nielsen, kunne det vært greit om du oppga navnet på den barnemoren og de barna som fødes med en Svend Nielsen som far. Det er et par andre Svend Nielsen i Berg (På Svalerød og på Røed) på den aktuelle tiden. Den enes ektefelle heter Marte Gundersdatter [url="http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=13&filnamn=f18010116&gardpostnr=35&personpostnr=248&merk=248#ovre>Lenke , og den andre Anne Nielsdatter

[Gjest Leif Salicath]

Her er den ene, Lenke se 1. jan. 1802 og dessverre Marte Gundersdatter og med andre ord uaktuell. Jeg mener å huske at den andre jeg så også var samme navn.Takk igjen for all hjelp.

[Gjest Adam Nilsen]

Hei hei, Leif,Jeg stammer fra en søster til Svend Nilsen Oven, Anne Kirstine, og jeg har en del opplysninger om dem og deres slekt. Det er nå sent i California og jeg kommer til å ha det travelt i de kommende dagene, altså lager jeg et nytt innlegg når jeg kan. Ville bare fortelle deg nå slik at du ikke begynne en stor jakt etter disse menneskene når jeg allerede har dåp/vielse/osv med forlovere/faddere for mange slektninger av interesse, og opplysninger fra bygdeboka for Råde.Du hører fra meg igjen. God jul!Med vennlig hilsen, Adam i San Francisco

[Gjest Leif Salicath]

Hei Adam,Det var en gledelig nyhet.God Jul til deg også !mvh Leif

[Gjest Adam Nilsen]

Hei Leif,Godt nyttår! Her finner du nesten alt jeg har om forfedrene til Svend Nilsen Oven, sammen med mange av mine egne notater og teorier om dem. Databasen jeg bruker gjør det vanskelig å pusse opp opplysninger - beklager om det er vanskelig å lese. Minst får du navnene/datoer/faddere/forlovere/osv...og hvis du har lyst til å følge mine teorier, som ofte er bare gjettinger, så kan du forhåpentligvis forstå mine tanker. Vennligst si ifra om det finnes noe uforståelig. Håper det går bra at mye av detter er på engelsk.Jeg må si at denne slekten er for meg av særlig interesse fordi mange av navnene er ganske sjeldne og man kan gjette om tilknytninger basert på navneskikk. F. eks. familien til Hans Sørensen; og også familien til Kirsti Halvardsdatter.Angående Kirsti Halvardsdatter...jeg har nettopp lagt merk på et innlegg fra deg hos DIS-Norge fra 2007 om et par du kalte for Svend Olsen Sogn og Kirsti Halvordatter Brødløs. Mente du Svend Pedersen Sogn? Det ser ut som om vi følger de samme ledetrådene med navneskikken; jeg har også en teori om at Anne Halvardsdatter Brødløs (kone til Jens Olsen Brødløs), Kirsti Halvardsdatter Sogn, Gregers Halvorsen Huseby, Boel Halvardsdatter (som kalles Huseby ved noen få dåper i Råde, og som jeg mener er identisk med Boel Halvardsdatter som var gift med Arne Olsen Valle i Onsøy), og Jøran Halvardsdatter (gift med Ole Pedersen Huseby) var søsken på grunn at alle disse navnene opptrer blant barna til disse menneskene og disse menneskene dukker opp som faddere ved dåp til barna til hverandre. Dette er et helt annet tema...men jeg ville bare nevne det siden jeg så ditt innlegg fra 2007.Med vennlig hilsen, Adam------------------------------Ahnentafel1 Svend Nilsen Oven2 Nils Hansen3 Jøran Svendsdatter Sogn4 Hans Sørensen5 Pernille6 Svend Pedersen Sogn7 Kirsti Halvardsdatter12 Peder Gregersen Sogn24 Gregers Villadsen Rosnes25 Ingeborg Finsdatter Vold, 10G Grandmother.50 FinName: Nils Hansen __________________________________________________ Birth: ca Mar 1719 Huseby Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: 19 Mar 1719 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Death: ca Dec 1795 Oven Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Burial: 2 Jan 1796 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Father: Hans Sørensen Mother: Pernille Marriage: 29 Jul 1745 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ Spouse: Jøran Svendsdatter Sogn __________________________________________________ Birth: ca Feb 1724 Sogn Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: 13 Feb 1724 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Death: ca Dec 1798 Oven Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Burial: 10 Dec 1798 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Father: Svend Pedersen Sogn (ca1677-ca1751) Mother: Kirsti Halvardsdatter __________________________________________________Children __________________________________________________ 1 M: Andreas Nilsen Oven Birth: 1745 Baptism: 1745 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Death: 1745 __________________________________________________ 2 F: Anne Kirstine Nilsdatter Oven Birth: ca Oct 1746 Krogstad, Tomb Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: 30 Oct 1746 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Death: 1804 Haugesten Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Spouse: Haagen Anonsen Røstad Marriage: 29 Nov 1769 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ 3 F: Berthe Nilsdatter Oven Birth: 1748 Krogstad, Tomb Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: 1748 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Spouse: Gunder Hansen Haugesten Marriage: 14 Oct 1790 __________________________________________________ 4 M: Halvor Nilsen Oven Birth: 1750 Baptism: 1750 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ 5 M: Elisabeth Nilsdatter Oven Birth: 1753 Baptism: 1753 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Death: 1753 __________________________________________________ 6 F: Stine Nilsdatter Oven Birth: 1754 Baptism: 1754 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Death: 1758 __________________________________________________ 7 F: Helle Nilsdatter Oven Birth: ca Aug 1756 Baptism: 29 Aug 1756 Rygge Kirke, Rygge, Østfold, Norway Death: 1821 Spouse: Villads Hansen Løken Marriage: 1783 __________________________________________________ 8 M: Fredrik Nilsen Oven Birth: 1758 Baptism: 1758 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Spouse: Berthe Jørgensdatter Spouse: Elli Johannesdatter Fuglevik Marriage: 1796 __________________________________________________ 9 F: Stine Nilsdatter Oven Birth: 1761 Baptism: 1761 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Death: 1829 Spouse: Peder Hansen Løken Marriage: 1787 __________________________________________________ 10 M: Jørgen Nilsen Oven Birth: 1763 Oven Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: 1763 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ 11 M: Svend Nilsen Oven Birth: 1765 Oven Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: 1765 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Notes for Nils Hansen There is a big mistake abt. him in the Råde bygdebok. Since he died in 1795 and his wife died in 1798, and she was called “Niels Owenøens Enke Jøran Svendsdtr.,” we know that Nils could not have had any other wife than Jøran. However, on p. 164 of the bygdebok, where he is listed under Krogstad, they attribute another wife to him, Berthe Nilsdtr. This could not be, for the reason above, and also because the marriage record for a Nils Hansen and Berthe Nilsdtr. is from 1763; our Nils Hansen and Jøran Svendsdtr. had a child born in 1765, so our Nils could not have married Berthe Nilsdtr. and had a child with Jøran Svendsdtr. 2 years later! This same Nils Hansen shows up on p. 168 on Bua under Tomb - this is a totally different person, though.Baptized on “Dom Laetare,” 1719. The faddere were Henrich Sørensen, Jon Beorg (?), Nils H__mands og Claus Jonstens (?) qvinder.Confirmed 7 Nov 1738, said to be 17 years old. I’m pretty sure this is him. He was called “Nils Hansen fra Krogstad.”His burial record says that he was 77 1/4 years old when he died. In this record, he is called Niels Hansen Ovenøen.In their marriage record, they are called Nels Hansen Ungkarl and Pigen Jøran Svendsdaatter. They were engaged 4 Jun 1745. The forlovere were Peder Nelsen Strømnes and Guttorm Grimstad. Found Peder Nilsen in the Råde bygdebok on p. 659. His wife was Berthe Hansdatter Rosnes from Rygge - she is in the Rygge bygdebok on p. 103, and her family is also tied in with Nils Sørensen Opstad. (See notes for Hans Sørensen.)According to the Råde bygdebok, Nils was born on Huseby, but lived later in Krogstad and moved to the Oven farm around 1762.Notes for Jøran Svendsdatter Sogn The Råde bygdebok is all mixed up about who she is. On p. 111, where Nils Hansen and his family are listed on Oven, it says that his wife was Jøran Svenonsdatter Oven, implying that this woman is the daughter, born in 1724, of Svenon Pedersen Oven, who died in 1751. On p. 57, under Sogn, however, we see a Jøran Svendsdatter Sogn, born 1724, dtr. of Svend Pedersen Sogn, who died in 1751. It is striking how similar these two accounts are - two Jørans, supposedly born the same year (1724), with fathers with almost idential names and who died in 1751. Nils and Jøran’s marriage record clearly calls them Nils Hansen and Jøran Svendsdatter.In her burial record, she is called “Niels Owenøens Enke Jøran Svendsdtr.,” 76 years old.Found her baptism record on p. 14 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks. She was baptized Dom Sept 1723, which would be Septuagesima Sunday. Her father is called Svend Sogn and no faddere are named - only 'etc.'Notes for Andreas Nilsen (Child 1) Found his baptism record on p. 41 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks online. His parents are called Nels Hansen og Jøran Svendsdaatter, and the faddere were Nille Pedersdaatter (or Andersdatter?), Jøran Gregersdatter, Nels Andersen Haugen (?), Hans Svendsen, Helge Andreasen (?). He was bap. 14 Sunday after Trinity, and his mother was reintroduced into the congregation on 19 after Trinity. Notes for Anne Kirstine Nilsdatter (Child 2) Baptized on “21 Trin,” 1746. In her baptism record, her parents are called Nels Hansen og Jøran Svendsdaatter EF (Ektefolk?) i Krogstad. The faddere were Kirsten (?) Torgersdaatter, Willads Løchens qv., Inger Nelsdatter, Christopher Grøtveg, Johan Caspar Rasmussen (?), ___ ___, Michel ___ ____ ___.Notes for Berthe Nilsdatter (Child 3) Found her baptism record on p. 46 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks online. Her parents are called Nels Hansen og Jøran Svendsdaatter, EF (Ektefolk?) i Krogstad, and the faddere were Else Christophersdaatter, Giertrud Willadsdaatter, Svend ___ (Maalvik?), ___ (Rune?) Hansen, Ole Nilsen Røed. She was bap. 10 Sunday after Trinity.Notes for Halvor Nilsen (Child 4) Found his baptism record on p. 48 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks online. His parents are called Niels Hansen and Jøran Svendsd, and the faddere were Siri Henrichsd., Berthe Willadsd., Hans Peter, Jørgen Sørensen, Christopher Arnesen. He was bap. 21 Sunday after Trinity.Notes for Elisabeth Nilsdatter (Child 5) Found her baptism record on p. 54 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks online. Her parents are called Niels Hansen og Jøran Svendsdatter, and the faddere were Mari Jensd. Molvich (found her on p. 83 of the Rygge bygdebok - nothing immediately useful there., Anne Enersd. Missingen, ___ Jeppesen, Jørgen Nielsen, Peder Svendsen M_d (?). She was bap. Dom. Reminisc.Notes for Stine Nilsdatter (Child 6) Found her baptism record on p. 55 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks. Her parents are called Niels Hansen and Jøran Svendsd., and the faddere were Eli Jensd., Eli Willadsd, Jon Jørgensen, Lars Ingebretsen, Halvor Jensen. The date was 1 p. Trinit. 1754.Notes for Helle Nilsdatter (Child 7) Stumbled upon her baptism record on p. 75 of the Rygge 1725-1771 churchbooks. It says, “I fra Raade Sogn, Niels Hansen og Jøran Svendsdatters datter Helle, Døpt. Faddeerne: Ole Nilsen, Hans Willasen Taschen, Jørgen Enersen Helieroe, Ingebor Christophersdatter Arneberg, og Margrete Nielsdatter Røer [who is on p. 25 of the Rygge bygdebok].Notes for Fredrik Nilsen (Child 8) Found his baptism record on p. 59 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks. His parents are called Niels Hansen and Jøran Svendsdtr., and the faddere were Berthe Maria, Helene Johannesd. Rosenberg, Mads Simensen Dahl, Jens Pedersen, Rasmus Svendsen p. Tomb.Notes for Stine Nilsdatter (Child 9) Found her baptism record on p. 62 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks online. Her parents are called Niels Hansen og Jøran Svendsdaatter, and the faddere were Berthe Marie ___, Helene Johannesd. Rosenberg, Christian Andersen, Ole Christensen, Ole Sebiørnsen. She was bap. Dom. Lætare.Notes for Jørgen Nilsen (Child 10) Found his baptism record on p. 4 of the Råde 1762-1806 churchbooks online. His parents are called Niels Hansen Ovenøen og Hustru Jøran Svendsdaatter, and the faddere were Anne Børgesdatter, Sigri Matthisdatter, Børge Hans., Peder Schoug, og Michel Willadsen. He was bap. 25 Trin.Notes for Svend Nilsen (Child 11) Found his baptism record on p. 6 of the Råde 1762-1806 churchbooks online. His parents are called Niels Hansen Ovenøen og Hustru Jøran Svendsdaatter, and the faddere were Anne Tostensdatt., Kirsti Willadsdatt., Hans Willads., Joen Anons. og Haagen Anons. He was bap. Dom. Sexag.Name: Hans Sørensen __________________________________________________ Other spouses: Kirsti Hansdatter Spouse: Pernille __________________________________________________Children __________________________________________________ 1 F: Hilleborg Hansdatter Birth: ca Feb 1709 Baptism: 17 Feb 1709 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ 2 M: Jens Hansen Birth: ca Mar 1711 Baptism: 2 Apr 1711 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ 3 M: Nils Hansen Birth: ca Oct 1713 Baptism: 20 Oct 1713 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ 4 F: Anne Hansdatter Birth: ca Sep 1714 Rød Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: 21 Sep 1714 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ 5 F: Olaug Hansdatter Birth: ca Mar 1715 Huseby Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: 5 Apr 1715 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ 6 F: Rejan Hansdatter Birth: ca Sep 1717 Tostenbingen, Rød Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: 27 Sep 1717 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ 7 M: Søren Hansen Birth: ca Jan 1718 Baptism: 1718 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ 8 M: Nils Hansen Birth: ca Mar 1719 Huseby Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: 19 Mar 1719 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Death: ca Dec 1795 Oven Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Burial: 2 Jan 1796 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Spouse: Jøran Svendsdatter Sogn Marriage: 29 Jul 1745 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Notes for Hans Sørensen His family is very confusing, because the Råde churchbook is very unclear abt. his family. There are a lot of uncertainties. 1) Are we sure that the name that the churchbook gives, Hans Sørensen, Hans Sørensen Tostenbingen, Hans Sørensen Huseby, Hans Huseby, are the same person? 2) Why are some of his children not listed in his entry on Tostenbingen in the bygdebok? 3) Was he really married twice, or could there have been more than one Hans Sørensen in Råde, one who married and had our relatives, and one who married Kirsti Hansdtr. in Tune? With all these uncertainties, I am going to enter all of the children that I think could possibly be his, although some of them might not be his. From there, I will figure out what is correct and what is not, but for now, I am setting up a model to test.Found a Hans Sørensen on p. 390 of the Råde bygdebok who really looks like he could be our guy, although Nils is not listed as one of his children. There are a few reasons I think this is true. First of all, the dates work out perfectly, and Hans Sørensen is such a rare name that it doesn’t seem like there would be more than one person in Råde w/ that name. Second, in the IGI is a record of a Hans Sørensen from Oven who married a Kirsti Hansdatter. These are definitely the same people who appear on p. 390. I don’t know how the person who created the IGI record knew that this Hans was from Oven, but it would make sense if this was our Hans, since Nils, Hans’s son, did live on Oven. So the connection goes from: 1) Nils Hansen, and the mention of his father being Hans Sørensen, to 2) the Hans Sørensen on p. 390, to 3) the confirmation that the Hans Sørensen on p. 390, according to the IGI, was from Oven. ... This Kirsti Hansdatter must be the one I found who Hans Sørensen married in Tune. According to the bygdebok, Hans Sørensen was first married to a Pernille - I assume, then, that Pernille was our Nils Hansen’s mother. It is interesting to note that there on the same sheet I printed out w/ Nils’s baptism on it, earlier in the year 1719, there is a Pernille Huusebye listed as a fadder at some child’s baptism. I’d be this is the Pernille who was married to Hans Sørensen. ... Note that the one of the sons of the Hans Sørensen on p. 390 was Hans Hansen, shown on Rød i Østbygden on p. 389, who bygslet Rød and Bingen from Elisabet Stiesdtr. Rosenberg. This name, Rosenberg, shows up in our family’s baptism records - see how, for instance, Frederik and Stine (children of Nils Hansen and Jøran Svendsdatter) have Rosenbergs as faddere at their baptisms. This demonstrates a connection btw. our family and the farm Rød i Østbygden and Bingen.I have a theory. I think Hans Sørensen was probably from Rygge for several reasons. The name Søren was very common in Rygge, and also, Hans’s son, Nils, had some connection to Rygge since one of his children was baptized there. I think Hans was the son of Søren Olsen Gate, who lived on Opstad in Rygge (see pages 32 and 258). Søren Olsen Gate was born around 1637/1639, had a son named Nils (i.e., for whom our Nils Hansen could possibly have been named), and a brother named Henrik. Søren Olsen’s son, Nils Sørensen (born ca. 1661), had a son named Søren Nilsen, who had a son named Hans Sørensen. This is prob. the one I found referenced on Opstad in the Rygge churchbooks. It would make perfect sense if this Hans Sørensen received his name, Hans, through a family name - i.e., his father’s uncle, who I am proposing to be Hans Sørensen. The name Henrik is striking b/c a Henrik Sørensen is mentioned as a fadder at our Nils Hansen’s baptism, presumably our Hans Sørensen’s brother. Furthermore, at the baptism of our Nils Hansen’s child, Helle (the one born in Rygge) are people from the Tasken farm, which, evidently from the Rygge bygdebok, had close ties to the Gate farm. Here is, therefore, what I propose. In black lettering are the names from the Rygge bygdebok, and the red ones are ones that we know (or can divine, as in the assumption that Henrik Sørensen is Hans Sørensen’s brother) from our own family. Observe what perfect sense this would make. Henrik Sørensen was named after his uncle Henrik Olsen, our Nils Hansen was named after his uncle Nils Sørensen, and Hans Sørensen was named for his father’s uncle, our Hans Sørensen. (The last argument may not hold, b/c Nils Sørensen married a Siri Hansdtr., and the Hans name in the family in the Rygge bygdebok could come from her)Also backing this up: In the marriage record for Nils Hansen and Jøran Svendsdtr, the forlovere were Peder Nelsen Strømnes and Guttorm Grimstad. Found Peder Nilsen in the Råde bygdebok on p. 659. His wife was Berthe Hansdatter Rosnes from Rygge - she is in the Rygge bygdebok on p. 103, and her family is also tied in with Nils Sørensen Opstad. Ole Pedersen Gate ------------------------------------------- Søren Olsen Gate Henrik Olsen Gate ------------------------------------------------------ Nils Sørensen Hans Sørensen Henrik Sørensen Jørgen Sørensen | | Søren Nilsen Nils Hansen | | Hans Sørensen Jørgen SørensenNotes for Pernille Looked for her burial record in the Råde churchbooks. P. 85 of Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks, 1721, middle of left column, a Pernille Andersdatter (or, possibly, Anonsdatter) who died, 23 yrs. old. This is the only one I found that could be her.P. 19 of Råde 1707-1762 - middle of third column, a reference to Pernille Huseby, so she couldn't be Hans Sørensen's first wife. This doesn’t rule out the theory that his first wife was named Pernille, however.Notes for Hilleborg (Child 1) Found her baptism record on p. 3 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks. She was baptized in 1709 on what looks like 17 Feb. Her father is called Hans Sørensen, and the faddere were Tienespige Ingeborg Ehrichsdatter, Jørgen Wold, Henrich Clausen, and Halvard Andersen.Notes for Jens (Child 2) Found his baptism record on p. 4 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks. He was baptized 2 Apr 1711. His father is called Hans Søfrensen, and the faddere were Ragnild Aager, Helle (Halvor?) Aager, Ragnild Huusebye, Peter Urtgaardsmand (?), Hans Jørgensen, Peder Larsen.Notes for Nils (Child 3) Found his baptism record on p. 6 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks. He was baptized 20 Oct 1713. His father is called Hans Sørensen, and the faddere were Ambiørn Aager, Ragnild Aager, Ragnild Huusebye, Jacob Jonsteen, Tosten Hansen.Notes for Anne (Child 4) Found her baptism record on p. 7 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks. She was baptized 21 Sep 1714. Her father is called Hans Sørensen paa RøedsEie, and the faddere were Elisabeth Helge Dinesens (can't tell what these two names run together means - could mean Elisabeth, Helge Dinesen's wife?), Elisabeth Moridts (or Mondts?) Dinesens (same here), Halvard Dinesen, Villadtz Augeberg, Morten Guldbrandsen.Notes for Olaug (Child 5) Found her baptism record on p. 7 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks. She was baptized 5 Apr 1715. Her father is called Hans Huusebye, and the faddere were Pernille Huusebye, Ragnild Houg, Anne Halvardsdatter Houg, Jens Muusangen, Anne Strømnes. Confusing - this makes it look like Hans Sørensen and Hans Huusebye are two different people. It also makes it look like Pernille Huusebye was not Hans Sørensen's wife, as I had thought.She throws in some confusion - is the Hans Huseby mentioned as her father really, in fact, the same as our Hans Sørensen? Also, her baptism date seems to be too close to Hans Sørensen’s child, Anne, for her to also be Hans Sørensen’s child.Notes for Rejan (Child 6) Found his baptism record on p. 8 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks. He was baptized 27 Sep 1717. His father is called Hans Sørensen Tostenbingen, and the faddere were Torbiørn Ouensen (?), Hans Arnesen (?) Knapperwiigen, Michel ___desen (?), ___ Stomner, Ingeborg Olsdatter, Willads Breche (?), Kirsti (?) Andersdatter.Notes for Søren (Child 7) Found his baptism record on p. 9 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks. He was baptized 2 Epiph 1718. His father is called Hans Sørensen, and the faddere were Lars Stener, Hans Giertsen (?), Simon Augeberg (or Aageberg), ___, Inger Beche (?), Rejan Oumberg (or Ouenberg?), Berte Oumberg (?) . Found Rejan Auberg on p. 671 of the Råde churchbook - I would imagine this is the person after whom Søren’s sister, Rejan, was named.Name: Hans Sørensen __________________________________________________ Other spouses: Pernille Spouse: Kirsti Hansdatter __________________________________________________Children __________________________________________________ 1 F: Pernille Hansdatter Birth: ca Dec 1722 Tostenbingen, Rød Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: ca Dec 1722 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ 2 M: Søren Hansen (Twin) Birth: 1723 Tostenbingen, Rød Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: 1723 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ 3 F: Birthe Hansdatter (Twin) Birth: 1723 Tostenbingen, Rød Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: 1723 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ 4 F: Marie Hansdatter Birth: ca Dec 1731 Tostenbingen, Rød Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: ca Dec 1731 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ 5 M: Christian Hansen Birth: 1733 Baptism: 1733 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, NorwayNotes for Pernille (Child 1) Found her baptism record on p. 13 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks. She was baptized 3 Adv 1722. Her father is called Hans Sørensen Tostenbingen, and the faddere were Hans Bechhuus, Hans Bu___, Marie (?) Stener, Marthe Tverbech.Notes for Søren (Child 2) Found the baptism record for him and his twin sister on p. 13 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks. They were baptized 25 Trin 1723. Their father is called Hans Tostenbingen, and the faddere were Aase (?) Stener, Marthe Tverbech, Birthe Haugen 'etc.' Right before that, there is a Hans Starengen w/ a child named Sørensen, faddere: Daniel Starengen, Nils Lundebye, Marthe Strømshaug.Notes for Birthe (Child 3) Found the baptism record for her and her twin brother on p. 13 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks. They were baptized 25 Trin 1723. Their father is called Hans Tostenbingen, and the faddere were Aase (?) Stener, Marthe Tverbech, Birthe Haugen 'etc.' Right before that, there is a Hans Starengen w/ a child named Sørensen, faddere: Daniel Starengen, Nils Lundebye, Marthe Strømshaug.Notes for Marie (Child 4) Found her baptism record on p. 20, righthand column, of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks. She was baptized Dom p. F. Nat. (the Sunday before was 3 Adv) 1731. Her parents are called Hans Sørensen og Kirstie Hansdatter, Egtefolk paa Pladtzen Tostenbingen, and the faddere were Aase Nelsdatter, A___(Anite?) Arnesdatter (or Anunsdatter), Kari Andersdatter, Ragnild Musangen/Missingen (?), ___ ___, Tosten Olsen, Prestehauge, Arne (or Anun) Sørensen Ellin, Nils Gundersen.Notes for Christian (Child 5) Found his baptism record on p. 23, mid. of 3rd column, of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks. He was baptized 2. Pentecost 1733, and his parents were called Hans Sørensen og Kirstie Hansdatter, and the faddere were Marie Nelsdatter Haugen, Inger Hansdatter Bechhuus, Johannes Helgesen, Søren Hansen Ellin, Arne (or Anun) Halvardsen, Carl, en Svenske Dreng (?). Kirsti was introduced back into the congregation 4. Trin.Name: Svend Pedersen Sogn __________________________________________________ Birth: ca 1677 Death: ca Feb 1751 Sogn Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway? Burial: 25 Feb 1751 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Father: Peder Gregersen Sogn (ca1639-ca1717)Spouse: Kirsti Halvardsdatter __________________________________________________Children __________________________________________________ 1 M: Hans Svendsen Sogn Birth: ca Mar 1714 Sogn Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: 11 Mar 1714 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ 2 F: Jøran Svendsdatter Sogn Birth: 1716 Sogn Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: 1716 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ 3 M: Peder Svendsen Sogn Birth: 1718 Sogn Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: 1718 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ 4 F: Jøran Svendsdatter Sogn Birth: 1720 Sogn Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: 1720 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ 5 F: Birthe Svendsdatter Sogn Birth: ca Jan 1722 Sogn Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: ca Jan 1722 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ 6 F: Jøran Svendsdatter Sogn Birth: ca Feb 1724 Sogn Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: 13 Feb 1724 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Death: ca Dec 1798 Oven Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Burial: 10 Dec 1798 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Spouse: Nils Hansen Marriage: 29 Jul 1745 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway __________________________________________________ 7 M: Halvard Svendsen Sogn Birth: ca Jan 1727 Sogn Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Baptism: ca Jan 1727 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Notes for Svend Pedersen Sogn Nevnes som leilending etter faren fra 1717 og some selveier fra 1750, da han kjøpte gården for 413 rdl. på auksjonen etter fru kommandør Huitfeldt. Erkjente 2/1-1751 å ha lånt 280 rdl. courant av prosten Debes for delvis å kunne innfri gården Sogn. Kirkeverge 1722 og 1737. G. trolig m. Kirsti Halvardsdtr.In his burial record, he is called Svend Pedersen, 74 years old.Notes for Hans Svendsen (Child 1) Found his baptism record on p. 4 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks. He was baptized 11 Mar 1714. His father is called Svend Sogn, and the faddere were Gunild Sandager [see p. 67 of bygdebok - no immediately connection discernible], Anna Mollviig (couldn’t find her under Molvik in Rygge bygdebok), Anna Halvardsdatter, Hans Sa___, Gregers Huusebye, Ole Asbiørn, Kønig (?) Sandager [see p. 238 of bygdebok - no immediately discernible connection].Notes for Jøran Svendsdatter (Child 2) Found her baptism record on p. 8 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks. She was baptized Dom. Jubilate 1716. Her father is called Svend Pedersen Sogn, and the faddere were Otter Pedersen fra Rygge Sogn, Hans Stomner, Pernille Huusebye, Ragnild Halvardsdatter [i bet this Ragnhild Halvardsdtr. is a sister of Kirsti Halvardsdtr. Through Familysearch, I found someone w/ this name who was buried in Rygge 13 Dec 1741. Found her on p. 160 and 162 of the Rygge bygdebok, with no information about her background. Started checking out the baptism records of this Ragnild Halvardsdtr.’s children - the only one I have left to check is the children of her daughter, Dorte Nilsdtr. and her husband Christen Jonsen. Looked at all of the child but didn’t find anything very revealing. It’s hard to know for sure, though, because very few patronymics are given for the faddere - I could, at some point when I’m feeling especially patient ***go back and look up all these children again, and look up the faddere in the Rygge bygdebok by first name on the farms mentioned in the baptism records].Notes for Peder Svendsen (Child 3) Found his baptism record on p. 10 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks. He was baptized 15 Trin 1718. His father is called Sven Sogn and the faddere were Otter Pedersen Mollvig, Gregers Huusebye, Peder Hansen Stomner, ___, Pernille Huusebye, Ragnild Houg, and Anne Halvardsdatter.Notes for Jøran Svendsdatter (Child 4) Found her baptism record on p. 11 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks (must be one who was born and died before our Jøran). She was baptized Dom 23 1720. Her father is called Svend Sogn, and the faddere were Lars (?) Hougsteen (?), Peder Stomner, Gregers Huusebye, Ole Sandager, Ole Hougsteens qvinde, Bodild Huusebye. I wonder if this Bodil Huseby (who I could not find in the bygdebok under Huseby) could be our Bodil Halvardsdatter who was married Arne Olsen Valle?Notes for Birthe Svendsdatter (Child 5) Found her baptism record on p. 12 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks. She was baptized 3 Epiph 1722. Her father is called Svend Sogn and the faddere were Jens Brødløs, Gregers Huusebye, Peder Stomner [Peder Hansen Stomner, who had a child named Halvard and lived on the farm following Steffen Hansen, a possible relative of the Halvor Steffensen I suspect to be the father of all these Halvorsens/Halvorsdtr.’s], Ole Sandagers qvinde [acc. to Råde bygdebok, Gunhild Kjønigsdatter, dtr. of Kjønig Andersen Sandaker], Sigrie Løchen [acc. to bygdebok, Sigri Baardsdtr., married to Lars Guttormsen], Bodille Halvardsdatter. I’d be this Bodil Halvardsdatter is the same Bodil Huseby who was a fadder at her sister, the second Jøran Svendsdatter’s, baptism, and the same as our Bodil Halvardsdatter who was married to Arne Olsen Valle in Onsøy. Also, note that Jens Olsen Brødløs is a fadder - his wife, I’m 99.9% sure, was Anne Halvardsdatter, so this would make perfect sense - he would be Birthe’s uncle (by marriage)!Familysearch gives a marriage record for a Birthe Svendsdtr. to an Anders Knudsen in 1736 - this would be too young to be our Birthe, probably. The Råde bygdebok, on p. 644-5, mentions Anders Knudsen’s marriage to a Berthe Svendsdtr. in 1736, with no children baptized in Råde.Notes for Halvard Svendsen (Child 7) Found his baptism record on p. 15 of the Råde 1707-1762 churchbooks. He was baptized 2 Epiph 1727. His father is called Svend Sogn and the faddere were Gregers Huusebye and Lars LøchenName: Peder Gregersen Sogn __________________________________________________ Birth: ca 1639 Death: ca May 1717 Sogn Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Burial: ca 16 May 1717 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Father: Gregers Villadsen Rosnes (ca1604-) Mother: Ingeborg Finsdatter Vold Unmarried: __________________________________________________Children __________________________________________________ 1 M: Svend Pedersen Sogn Birth: ca 1677 Death: ca Feb 1751 Sogn Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway? Burial: 25 Feb 1751 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Spouse: Kirsti Halvardsdatter __________________________________________________ 2 M: Nils Pedersen Sogn Birth: ca 1664 Notes for Peder Gregersen Sogn Brukte 3 huder i 1666 og hele gården fra 1678. Kirkeverge 1692-94 og nevnes som lagrettemann.In his burial record, he is called Peder Sogn, 86 years old. It is hard to read the number/date of his burial - it looks like a 16, and it would make sense if he was buried 16 May. He was buried before the second Sunday in Pentecost, and after Rogation Sunday, which, according to a perpetual calendar for 1717, would be between 2 May and 23 May.Ole Villadsen appears as a fadder of one of Nils Pedersen Strømnes’s children (I assume Nils Pedersen Strømnes to be the same as Peder’s son, Nils Pedersen, who is mentioned in the 1666 census). Familysearch says that Ole Villadsen’s father was Villads Pedersen - could this Villads Pedersen have been Peder Gregersen’s son? The co-occurrence of the names Villads and Peder is definitely striking.Notes for Nils Pedersen (Child 2) In the 1666 census, he appears to be a son of Peder Gregersen Sogn, 1 1/2 years old.Through Familysearch, I think I found him - I think he is the Nils Pedersen Strømnes mentioned on p. 659 of the Råde bygdebok. The bygdebok says he was born ca. 1659, which isn’t too far off - I bet the bygdebok writers didn’t make the connection btw. the guy in the census and this guy. There aren’t any other Nils Pedersens in the 1664/1666 census - there are a few other non-Råde people who could be Nils Pedersen Strømnes, however - one of these could possibly be him, of course. One other supporting point - Nils Pedersen Strømnes had a daughter named Berthe, and so did our Svend Pedersen. Nils Pedersen Strømnes died 9 Dec 1736. ... Looked up the bap. records of those children mentioned in the bygdebok. In his son, Sigurd’s bap. record, Svend Sogn shows up as a fadder! And at his son, Sigvard’s (although I think the name is actually Siguurd in the churchbook) baptism, Svend Sogn is a fadder again!Name: Gregers Villadsen Rosnes __________________________________________________ Birth: ca 1604 Rosnes Gård, Rygge, Østfold, NorwaySpouse: Ingeborg Finsdatter Vold __________________________________________________ Father: FinChildren __________________________________________________ 1 M: Peder Gregersen Sogn Birth: ca 1639 Death: ca May 1717 Sogn Gård, Råde, Østfold, Norway Burial: ca 16 May 1717 Råde Kirke, Råde, Østfold, Norway Notes for Gregers Villadsen Rosnes Bygselt 2 skpd. i gården fra 1649. Eide part i sdr. Rosnes som han brukte sammen med Jon Gregersen fra 1631. Ga koppskatt 1645 for seg, hustru og datter. Eide 1655 15 lispd. salt i gården Horgen på Nes i Romerike. Segl: G.W.S. Var gjest i barsel 1664 hos Jacob Nes i Rolvsøy, der Ole Hansen ble stukket ihjel av Jul Gretteland. Gregers fortalte at han satt i Høysetet og hadde ikke hørt noe. Ingeborg Finsdtr., hans hustru, hadde sett dem trette. Hun forsøkte å megle, men forgjeves.Notes for this family Gregers was from the Rosnes farm in the Rygge district, but in 1649, he was a farmer on the Sogn farm in Råde. He also owned part of the Southern Rosnes farm and farmed there alongside a man named Jon Gregersen from 1631 onward. In 1645, when the Norwegian government set a tax on the number of cups a household owned, he paid the tax for himself, his wife, and a daughter.In 1655, he owned an amount of land worth 15 lispund of salt on the Horgen farm in the Nes district of the region of Romerike. Perhaps he had a family connection to that area.In 1664, Gregers and Ingeborg were guests at the birth of a child of Jacob Nes in the Rolvsøy district, at which a man named Ole Hansen was stabbed to death by a man named Jul Gretteland. Gregers said that he was sitting in the seat of honor at the time and that he did not hear anything happen. Ingeborg, however, said that she had seen the two men arguing. She tried to step in and arbitrate, but to no avail.Notes for Peder Gregersen (Child 1) Brukte 3 huder i 1666 og hele gården fra 1678. Kirkeverge 1692-94 og nevnes som lagrettemann.In his burial record, he is called Peder Sogn, 86 years old. It is hard to read the number/date of his burial - it looks like a 16, and it would make sense if he was buried 16 May. He was buried before the second Sunday in Pentecost, and after Rogation Sunday, which, according to a perpetual calendar for 1717, would be between 2 May and 23 May.Ole Villadsen appears as a fadder of one of Nils Pedersen Strømnes’s children (I assume Nils Pedersen Strømnes to be the same as Peder’s son, Nils Pedersen, who is mentioned in the 1666 census). Familysearch says that Ole Villadsen’s father was Villads Pedersen - could this Villads Pedersen have been Peder Gregersen’s son? The co-occurrence of the names Villads and Peder is definitely striking. Name: Fin __________________________________________________ Unmarried: __________________________________________________Children __________________________________________________ 1 F: Ingeborg Finsdatter Vold Spouse: Gregers Villadsen Rosnes __________________________________________________ 2 M: Gregers Finsen Vold Birth: ca 1612 Death: aft 1674Notes for Gregers Finsen (Child 2) Nevnes fra 1630-74. Segl: G.F. - G.m. enken Gunhild Jonsdtr. Brukte halve gården [Vold] fra 1664. Pantsatte 1636 Capell-Huseby med 1 bismpd. smør til Svend Frakkestad for lån 18 rdl. Ble stevnet av Torsten Grimstad 10/6-1652 fordi Gregers hest hadde bitt ihjel en hest for Torsten. En søster ble gift 1654 med Torkel Andersen Fuglevig og en annen søster, Ingeborg var gm.m Gregers Sogn.

[Gjest Leif Salicath]

Hei Adam,Godt Nyttår !Dette var fantastisk. Du må ha jobbet masse med dette. Jeg kunne raskt verifisere at du har korrekt info fra kirkebøkene. En liten korreksjon - jeg tror at Jøran (den 3dje Jøran) ble døpt i 1724, ikke i 1723. Flere årstall øverst på siden gjør det litt vanskelig, men som sagt jeg går for 1724.Jeg ser klart at jeg har tatt feil mht. navnet til Jørans far. Det er selvsagt Svend Pedersen Sogn.Likeledes var slutningen om at Jørans mor var Kirsti Halvorsdatter Brødløs feil. Jeg støtter ditt syn på at her må hun være en av søsknene fra Huseby. Søsteren ble gift Brødløs.Det var morsomt å få alt dette på plass. Tusen takk til deg.Det er også litt morsomt at min kone og jeg feiret nyttår hos noen venner hvor husets frue heter Jøran (men hun har ikke noe med denne familien å gjøre).