[#79785] Bert H. Christie

[Gjest Bill Woods]

Searching for subject individual poses a nearly insurmountable challenge, but I’m hopeful you folks will find something new. You have offered assistance three for four times previous to this inquiry and done very well. Thank you.According to available records in the US and Canada (ca 1905-1910), Bert Halversen (Bert H.) Christie, Christi, sometimes referred to as Kristy was born in Norway in 1872. This information comes from his death record plus family records passed down. His parents and place of birth are not known but possibly in the Hordaland or Romsdal areas. He lost his biological mother when young and his father (presume of first name Halvor or Halvord) remarried. We believe Bert did have at least one sibling (sister) who also came from Norway to Minnesota, USA perhaps ca 1890-1904. This information comes from family notes and so far cannot be confirmed. Since different names were sometimes used in the US than in Norway, women are often very difficult to trace in this country.Bert’s departure and arrival records (from Norway and into the US) are not found. It is assumed that he came from Norway to either Australia or directly to the US between ca 1886 and 1904 where he is found in Minnesota records. He appears in the 1905 Minnesota State Census with his wife (Carrie for Karoline or Karen) and daughter, Beatrice (Age 1). In the 1911 Alberta, Canadian Census, Bert was not listed (died in 1910), but his wife Carrie and two children, Beatrice (7) and Harold Orin (6) are listed.Bert married about 1903 in MN Karen (Karoline) Valdal(b. about 1880, I believe)who immigrated in 1900 from Alesund, Romsdal, Norway; and her lineage has been traced to a family residing on that particular farm. Her ancestry is not an issue. It is not known whether or not Bert and Karoline knew each other in Norway, but is presumed they did not. Bert H. Christie (most often referred to in the US and Canada) and his family (parents in Norway) are the subjects of interest herein.What can we find on him given this very limited background in Norway? Much thanks for all you folks do,Bill Woods

[Gjest Eyvind Knutsen]

Hi I found 6 person's with the name of Bert born 1872 in Norway,none of them had the name Christie or Halverson.The only Bert that i think you can look at is this man: Emigrated in 1908 to US - Theodor Bert Andreassen..LenkeDo you have any further informationRegards Eyvind

[Gjest Hanne Line Osberg Eide]

Bert could be an americanized version of a norwegian first name. It makes it even harder...

[Gjest Anne-Lise Hansen]

Hello.Could it be that his name is Albert? LenkeThis person is born in 1872 and comes from Møre og Romsdal.Regards Anne-Lise

[Gjest Kurt Østbye]

Denne karen skulle til Michigan, og ser ut til å bo der som enkemann i census for 1920 og 1930 med døtrene Helen og Esther, hhv. 12 og 10 år i 1920 og født i Michigan.I 1930 står det immigrasjonsår 1891, men i 1920 står det 1908.

[Gjest Kurt Østbye]

According to a family tree on Ancestry.com your man immigrated to Sidney, Australia on 25 March 1886 and lived in Victoria, Australia in 1900.Most of us in Norway do not have 'global' access to Ancestry.com data, so it would be of interest to know what name(s) he used in 1886 and 1900, or other info details from these two points in time.

[Gjest Bill Woods]

Thank you for your comments, suggestions and names. I don't believe we can be sure that the Bert Halversen Christie we are attempting to find in Norway was for certan the Bert H. Christie found departing from England to Australia in 1886, but according to his family story in hands of his grandchildren, it could have been. Rather than me submitting more comments, I will refer your letters to Patricia Wood who is a granddaughter of Bert and Carrie Christie. She has more information about her grandparents but, unfortunately, nothing seems firm. Bert and Carrie definitely were married in 1905 and lived in Minnesota. He was employed with the American Iron Works (or similar company) and traveled around the world. For example, he worked on the Panama Canal. I will turn my inquiry over to my cousin, Patricia Wood.Thanks for your interest and comments. Bill Woods

[Gjest Ron Berg-Iverson]

If you know the place Bert Halvorsen married you might find his parents names and also his birthplace.Albert could be his name and the Kristi ( Christi ) could be an abbreviation of his farm place in Norway.Interesting that Kristi could be Kristiania ( Christiania )Anything is possible,but I would look for marriage certificate,possibly WW1 registration in the US,and Citizenship in the US. Ron

[Gjest Bill Woods]

Would you folks who have responded forward your e-mail addresses so we have the opportunity of corresponding directly? Thank you. Mine is: wwoods5@q.comThank you. Bill Woods

[Gjest Kurt Østbye]

I agree that marriage data or birth data for the period 1903 - 1905 in Minnesota would be a good way to search for hints as to Bert's origin.This may be Karen Marie, born 1886, in the Norwegian census for 1900 living with her family at the farm Valdal, lot 3, in Nordalens county:father Ole Elias Valdal Aalesund Hf g Plassemand m J og Taklæger (Skjifersl) 1845mother Karen Valdal Hm g Plasemanskonne 1839brother Ole Martinus Valdal Aalesund S ug Carpenter at Hamnes Bygmester 1879Karoline Marie Valdal ug Datter 1886

[Gjest Kurt Østbye]

Based on the church book for Nordal this person is more likely to be Bert's wifte:Karen Marie, born 17th February 1880, confirmed on 6th May 1894. Father Ole Monsen Valdal and mother Karen Marie Jonsdtr.

[Gjest Kurt Østbye]

If it is of any help, it looks like the births of their children is in the Minnesota database, under Hennepin county:(Beatrice ?) Christy born 27th april 1904, mother CarrieHarold Orin Christy, born 6th March 1906, mother CarrieThese birth certificates may contain info about the father.

[Gjest Bill Woods]

All your comments are worthy and sincere. We could offer more about Carrie's family if this would help, plus we continue to work with MN archives to find Bert's and Carrie's marriage record. This would be very helpful if we could find it. Birth certificates are also important which I believe the family has on file.Granted, this is the proper sequence of research, to work from death and burial records back to children's records, marriage, census, immigration then to the country of origin. Unfortunately, so far this procedure for Bert and his family has not worked for us.We also agree that Bert may not have been Mr. Christie's Norwegian first name but rather abbreviated or changed from a similarly sounding first name, Bertin, Bertinus, etc. My belief is that Bert Halvorsen Christie probably lived on a farm or place owned by a family named Christie and took on this name as his last name. I very carefully add this statement but my expertise in Norwegian family research is very limited. In my next posting I will furnish an example of a family living at such a place, but we have not found Bert as a part of this family. Sincerely, Bill Woods

[Gjest Bill Woods]

I mentioned recently that I would offer information about a family of interest that Bert 'may' have come from. The family was from Kristiansund and found in the 1865-telling: LenkeHalvor Wahlberg and his family lived at the residence of W. F. Christie, according to the telling. Since Bert was not born until 1872, he would not have been listed. While Halvor's children are well advanced in age by 1865, it seems unlikely that there would have been more children, unless Halvor's wife died and he remarried.This is the best lead I have found to date.

[Gjest Kurt Østbye]

The customs officer Halvor Hansen Wahlberg mentioned in the 1865 census is possibly the same person mentioned in 'Customs Officers during 300 years':Wahlberg, Halvor Hansen, born 2. aug. 1812. Standardjunker. Undertollbetjent (Customes officer) at Molde from 13. Nov. 1845 untill his death on 28. May 1878.http://www.genealogi.no/kilder/Tollere/t-aa.htm

[Gjest Kurt Østbye]

In the 1875 census we find (probably) the son Hans Wahlberg mentioned in the 1865 census when he was 13 years of age.Place: Kongens Gade 54, TrondheimName: Hans Wahlberg, singlePosition: Fuldmægtig (manager) with Klem Hansen & CopiBorn: 1853 ChristiansundLenke

[Gjest Bill Woods]

Kurt Østbye, thanks for your information. As you know, we hold on to leads until proven positive or negative. I consider Halvor Wahlberg’s family a definite mismatch for Bert H. Christie due to his occupation, plus there is nothing to connect Bert with the Wahlberg family. Yet, I will keep this lead in mind.We have one more lead from my original search in Norwegian Departure Records but have been informed by very competent authorities in Norway that we can rule him out as well. Justification for ruling this individual out is the definite mismatch between the two surnames: Kvistad versus Christie or Kristy. Nevertheless, I submit his information for the benefit for each of you attempting to assist.Britanius Halversen Kvistad (Age 19) emigrated from Ålesund on 5 March 1891, destination, Minnesota. Searching a little on his family in Norway, everything about him would fit very well to have been Bert Halversen Christie. Britanius’s mother died when he was young and his father remarried. According to Bert’s family history (sketchy, but as known), this was the case with Bert. Britanius emigrated about the right time to have been in Minnesota in 1901-1903 when Bert married Carrie. Mentioned previously, Carrie was listed as Karoline in the 1905 MN Census, Karen in her 1900 Norwegian Departure Record.Everything about Britanius seems to match quite well for him to have been Bert. Like Bert, we do not readily find him in US records, including the 1900 and 1910 Census records.However, I have terminated my search for Britanius in the US as “Britanius” does not favorably compare to “Bert.” As mentioned, “Kvistad” is also very different from “Christie or Kristy.” I’m sure that people helping out with this search for Bert would agree that these two farm (place) or surnames would not be changed one from the other in Norway or the US.I don’t believe we have found anything new, yet, and probably will not until we can find more background about Bert after he left Norway.I will mention a little more about Bert for your benefit but have attempted to rule out any speculation about his circumstances.Family history has it that Bert ran away from home at age 13 and became a stowaway on a ship bound for the western continent. He ended up onboard the ship (or ships) for an extended period of time and went many places before his eventual arrival to the US. Possibly, he was discovered aboard ship and had to work in order to earn his way. More likely, in my opinion, many immigrants to the US did not want their children to know of their hardships or circumstances so kept their personal histories obscuredI feel that we need to return to the Minnesota archives in an attempt to find his marriage record, plus locality searches such as his employer’s archives for possible leads. There is bound to be something which will eventually lead us to him, plus I’m confident Bert’s family is listed in Norwegian archives but where. I had a hunch that we may have been able to find him even with very limited data. I have been very successful using Digitalarkivet and felt we had a chance to find Bert's family. Please keep trying. As you know, all we need is the right name and right date of either Bert or his parents.Sincerely, Bill Woods