[#80543] Dette er et mysterium.

[Gjest Rob Hansen]

Hei Dette dokumentet har blitt gransket mange ganger av folk over hele Oslo LOL men likevel det ikke har vært mulig å finne nøyaktig hvor den militære treningen dette gjelder kan noen vennligst si hvor sjømilitære rekrutter ble opplært på slutten av det nittende århundre i denne distriktet. Den beste formodning var Ramsun (d), men som tydeligvis ikke var mulig siden Ramsund startet opp senere. kan noen klare mysteriet behage?En oversettelse ville være bra fra noen føler sterkt nok.Rob.Vennligst skrivpå engelsk om du kan

[Gjest Rob Hansen]

her er det

[Gjest Per Helge Seglsten]

I think it says: Hamvik or Hamnvik.

[Gjest Per Helge Seglsten]

It has to be Hamnvik: http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamnvik

[Gjest Per Helge Seglsten]

OK, I see. That's not what you were asking about. Sorry.

[Gjest Gry Onarheim Dahlmo]

Contact the Naval Museum (Marinemuseet) in Horten. E-mail : mar-mus@online.no

[Gjest Per B. Lilje]

I am not quite sure if I understand what you are asking for? The main text says that Magnus B. Hansen by the military medical board ('sesjon') was found suitable for military service in the naval district troops (distriktssøtropperne) and that the medical board was held at Hamnvik on the 14th of July 1896. So Hamnvik is not where he got any military training, only the place where the medical board was held (that determined suitability for military service). Then along the left-hand edge is written that he was transfered to the reserves from January 1, 1899. So I guess that your question is if got any navy training between 1896 and 1899? I am not able to read what is written at the very bottom, is that what you were asking for?

[Gjest Rob Hansen]

Yes. Is he trained at Lodingen??

[Gjest Rob Hansen]

Do records for Lodingen exist??

[Gjest Atle Andersen]

I don't think it could have been Lødingen. The (naval)fortress at Lødingen was built by the Germans during world war II, and Norwegian military forces started their activity and training here after 1945-1950.

[Gjest Per B. Lilje]

I think the first step would be to find out what 'distriktssjøtroppene' (district naval troops) really was, and what training they did receive in the 1890s (if they did receive any). I think you should ask the Norwegian Navy museum in Horten, email: mar-mus@online.no, telephone 33 03 33 97.Before 1897, there was no conscription to the army in the counties of Nordland, Troms and Finnmark, but from 1875 there was conscription to the 'district naval troops'. This seems to have been som kind of naval militia, as they did not include men who were sailors (able seamen), as these were in the proper navy and would crews warships. However, I can't find much about the district naval troops, in a book from 1876 it says that the district naval troops have not yet been organised and trained, but that could of course have changed in the next 20 years.

[Gjest Rob Hansen]

That's very interesting Per. As far as /i can see the paper is a licence for a pilot or los who was trained somewhgere in Troms. One of the places he may have been trained is Lodingen where there is a Los museum but this is still difficult to get a handle on because it is nt clear what trainig this district troop had and whatthey would be expected to do in the event of war.There is an entry for this person in the anatasjionsrulle in Tromso does that mean he was trained??It is difficult to make sense of this..

[Gjest Per B. Lilje]

Do you talk about the paper you have posted? That is not a license for anything, and has nothing to do about 'los' (pilot) training.What it says is 'Værnepligts- og Lodtrækningsseddel', i.e. 'conscription and draft receipt' (Lods = pilot, but here it is Lodtrækning, which means draft or lottery). It is just a receipt that he has been to the military medical board (held at Hamnvik), was found suitable for military service in the 'district naval troops' and had drawn the number of 24. Military conscription in those days would be according to number, since the number of soldiers needed would be less than the number of candidates. Those who drew the largest numbers (I think, perhaps the opposite) would be exempt from military service.Anyway, you should ask the Norwegian Naval Museum how the 'distriktssjøtroppene' in North Norway was organized, what training they did receive and what duties they had. My guess is that they were a more or less organized militia that at most had a short initial basic training of some weeks, and then perhaps a few days training per year.

[Gjest Atle Andersen]

I found some old information about the 'Distrikts-sjøtropper' / district naval troops, see link; [url="http://runeberg.org/norge76/0333.html>http://runeberg.org/norge76/0333.html (at the lower part of page 3). As Per told in no. 7 above, Magnus was transferred to the Reserve troops 1.1.99 (written in the left hand edge), and it is not possible to find out from the paper above IF,- and in case WHERE Magnus eventually was trained.I tried to check out the 'annotasjonsrulle' for Tromsø district;

[Gjest Rob Hansen]

can someone translate page 3 please ?? Thankyou.

[Gjest Per B. Lilje]

You mean from Runeberg posted by Atle above? This is a description of the Norwegian military forces from 1876, and then probably outdated when it comes to the 1890s. Starting at th middle of the page 'Søvæbningen...' it says:The Navy consists of: a regular volunteer force and the conscripted sailors who at any time are conscripted as crews of the warships. These include able seamen (merchant marine) - who after the age of 15 have sailed internationally for 2 1/2 years - their military duty lasts from the age of 22 to the age of 35; and ordinary seamen - who have sailed for 1 year -. If such an ordinary seaman does not become an able seaman before the age of 27, he is transfered to the Army.The district naval troops for duties where the certificate of able or ordinary seaman is not necessary. The manpower of it is 2000 men in peacetime and 3500 men in wartime with a reserve and 7 years service, of which the first 5 years as the peacetime force just like the line forces of the army, together with which it is to be trained.Of the soldiers in year 8, 9 and 10 are formed the Coast Defence for defence of the coasts with service only inside the kingdom.From now, the district naval troops and its reserves are only to be conscripted in the counties of Nordland and Troms (included then Finnmark). In the 5 southern counties,the necessary forces for this service are to be taken from the conscripts of the Line (army) from sea districts.The guiding principle for how conscription is organised has been to try to distribute as equal as possible the burden of conscription on the different parts of the country and its individual citizens.

[Gjest Atle Andersen]

Thanks to Per for an excellent translation of a complicated language from the 1870's, with many special/military terms.The point of this attachement was to tell how the military service was organized in Norway at the end of the 19th century. Persons were drawn, after the medical board, and given a number; Magnus B Hansen got no. 24 after the medical board held in Hamnvik in 1896. The comment in the left hand edge tells us that he was transferred to the reserve force by 1.1.1899. In my opinion this means (i.e the general text, and the written comments in the paper no. 2 above), that he never had to do the military training, according to the general descriptions, and actually never performed any military service!??

[Gjest Rob Hansen]

HiMagnus is on the annatasjionsrulle in Tromso does that mean he was trained he's only just missing from the database Atle looked at.Also how is it that someone in Denmark comes to be writing about Norwegian defence in the 19th century were there no norwegiam authots writing this down??

[Gjest Per B. Lilje]

The 'Runeberg' link was to the book 'The Kingdom of Norway and the Norwegian people' by Professor Ole Jacob Broch. This was a Norwegain book, published in Oslo in 1876, and it was trying to give a relatively complete description of Norway and Norwegian society (including defence forces) in 1876. This is not someone in Denmark. You can read more about the author here: Lenke