[#82732] Help For Other European Ancestors?

[Gjest Waldron Faulkner]

Hello all, and thank you again for your recent help tracking down my ancestor Clarence Hanson, and discovering the curious and colorful tale of his wife Guro/Gurina/Rena and her mother Guri.Now I'm having trouble with some of my wife's ancestors. Unfortunately, this time we're not talking about Norwegians, so I'm wondering if you all know of other similar groups in other parts of the world that do for their regions what you all do for Norway? The people in question are Slovenians (and/or Croatians/Hungarians... the town has changed hands many times over the years).So the question: do you know of any Slovenian-focused groups online? Or others from the region?Details: I'm trying to research Andrew John Slavic/Slaveck and his wife, Anna Kolman. He was born 15 Oct 1889, probably in Turnišče, Slovenia (Anna Kolman was born there in 1892). He died in 1928.They did not immigrate together (may not have known each other 'til the States). Anna Kolman traveled to the US in 1912 (sponsored by Holy Name Cathedral). She lived with relatives in Bridgeport, Connecticut before going on to Chicago, Illinois and marrying Andrew John Slavic/Slaveck.Ancestry.com has almost nothing. A death record for Andrew and lines in the 1930 Census for Anna 'Slavic' living in Chicago with her 4 children. That's all I've been able to find so far.Again, I don't necessarily impress upon you for direct help with these non-Norwegians, but if you know of any other organizations/groups who may be able to help, we'd appreciate it.Thanks!- Waldron Faulkner Boston, Massachusetts, USAPS, I live right around the corner from the New England Historical Genealogical Society: http://www.americanancestors.org/home.html. I've never visited, but if anyone from this forum should ever need a scout to visit there physically for some reason, I'll be happy to do so for you. I feel very much indebted!- Waldron Faulkner

[Gjest Patty Dahl]

Hei Waldron!Have you found either Anna or Andrew at www.ellisislandrecords.org?Greetings! Patty

[Gjest Arne Solås]

In WW1 Draft Reg. Cards I found a man named Andrew Slavecz - but he is born Oct. 31 in Hungary - could it be your man?Name: Andrew Slavecz City: Chicago County: Cook State: Illinois Birthplace: Hungary Birth Date: 31 Oct 1889 Race: White FHL Roll Number: 1613566 DraftBoard: 47

[Gjest Waldron Faulkner]

Patty, I hadn't, but now have. Will look deeper... nothing right off the bat but I'll experiment with possible alternative spellings.Arne, we had seen that draft card previously. The birthdate doesn't match and there were a number of immigrants from Eastern Europe living in Chicago at the time. Also that spelling (which merits more investigation now that I look at it!) doesn't match any that we had seen within the family. So we had assumed this wasn't our man, however, I'll start looking for this town which looks to be 'Beladin/Brladin'. This registrant says 'Hungary' is where he's from, but our Andrew thought of himself as Slovenian. However, as I said, the town where his wife is from (and which we believe is the same town HE is from) changed hands many times over the years, and may well have been in Hungary by the time WWI came along.I'll start looking at some of this stuff. Good catch, thanks.

[Gjest Torbjørn Igelkjøn]

From beta.familysearch.org (which has some databases from Chicago): Name Rose Slavic Birth Date 10 Jan 1917 Birthplace Chicago Gender Female Race Father's Name Andrew Slavic Father's Birthplace Father's Age 28 Mother's Name Anna Koman Mother's Birthplace Mother's Age 23 Christening Date Christening Place Paternal Grandfather Paternal Grandmother Maternal Grandfather Maternal Grandmother Additional Relatives Death Date Death Age Film Number 1276273 Digital Folder Number 4402548 Image Number 00790 Reference Number 818There is also an image of the registration. The birth places of Annna and Andrew is Hungary. Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia were part of the Austrian-Hungarian empire until the first world war. In fact, the first world war broke out when a Serbian nationalist shot the Austrian crownprince(?) in Sarajevo. After the war, these countries became part of a kingdom, which later became the Republic of Yugoslavia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YugoslaviaI can´t find his immigration to the USA. I am wondering if his real name was Andrew Slavic, or if it is 'americanized'. Many Norwegians took names in the USA which make it difficoult to find them for us in Norway, the same problem would appear when we try to go the other way.If you want help from Slovenians, you could also try to post queries at one or more message boards, e.g. on Rootsweb.

[Gjest Torbjørn Igelkjøn]

Illinois, Cook County Birth Certificates, 1878-1922 at familysearch:Name Anna Slavik Birth Date 28 Sep 1918 Birthplace Chicago Gender Female Race Father's Name Andrew Slavik Father's Birthplace Father's Age 28 Mother's Name Anna Kolman Mother's Birthplace Mother's Age 26 Christening Date Christening Place Paternal Grandfather Paternal Grandmother Maternal Grandfather Maternal Grandmother Additional Relatives Death Date Death Age Film Number 1276447 Digital Folder Number 4402470 Image Number 00210 Reference Number 55640Name Anna Coleman Slaveck Birth Date 27 Sep 1918 Birthplace Chicago Gender Female Race Father's Name Andrew Slaveck Father's Birthplace Father's Age 29 Mother's Name Anna Coleman Mother's Birthplace Mother's Age 25 Christening Date Christening Place Paternal Grandfather Paternal Grandmother Maternal Grandfather Maternal Grandmother Additional Relatives Death Date Death Age Film Number 1308858 Digital Folder Number 4403116 Image Number 00540 Reference Number 34765 View Image Save ImageSearch CollectionAbout this CollectionName Andrew Slaveck Birth Date 20 Nov 1920 Birthplace Chicago Gender Male Race Father's Name Andrew Slaveck Father's Birthplace Father's Age 31 Mother's Name Anna Kolman Mother's Birthplace Mother's Age 28 Christening Date Christening Place Paternal Grandfather Paternal Grandmother Maternal Grandfather Maternal Grandmother Additional Relatives Death Date Death Age Film Number 1309440 Digital Folder Number 4440926 Image Number 01743 Reference Number 44767I notice that Andrew is a seamster, and the Andrew at the WW1 registration card is also a seamster.

[Gjest Torbjørn Igelkjøn]

Link to thread on Rootsweb: Lenke

[Gjest Arne Solås]

Godt jobbet, Torbjørn! Ja, jeg var også innom diverse sider på nettet og leste om Slovakias historie, og finner det derfor ikke _helt_ usannsynlig at de i tellingene også kan stå med fødeland Austria. Jeg så på en familie i Chicago i går som jeg stusset lenge ved, men var så usikker at jeg ikke la den inn her. Mener de bor i Illinois Street, samme gate som for Andrew i registreringskortet - men visstnok ikke samme husnummer. Fødelandet er ført som Austria - men 'mother tongue' er 'Slovec' !! Yrket ser for meg ut som det kan være 'Seamster'Dere får se på denne familien og si hva dere mener:Name: Anna Szlusoz [Anna Szalaooz] [Anna Szluooz??] Home in 1920: Chicago Ward 21, Cook (Chicago), Illinois Age: 27 Estimated birth year: abt 1893 Birthplace: Austria Relation to Head of House: Wife Spouse's name: Andrew Szlusoz Father's Birth Place: Austria Mother's Birth Place: Austria Marital Status: Married Race: White Sex: Female Year of immigration: 1907 Able to read: Yes Able to Write: Yes(Håper du kan oversette noe av det jeg skriver for Waldron, Torbjørn. Det nærmer seg 50 år siden jeg sluttet skolen, så min skriftlige engelsk er ikke helt bra mer :)

[Gjest Arne Solås]

En liten rettelse: morsmålet er skrevet 'Slovek' - ikke 'Slovec' som jeg kom i skade for å skrive.

[Gjest Tore Svenning]

A small contribution to 4): the town in question was part of Hungary for many centuries and became part of Slovenia after the first world war when Hungary was relieved of much of her territory. I think the town was reoccupied by Hungarian forces furing the second world war, but is now firmly in Slovenian hands.And: I think the thread is risking a slight confusion between 'Slovakia' and 'Slovenia' - the former is North of Hungary (and was formerly referred to, in part, as 'Upper Hungary') while Slovenia is to the south-west.this part of the world is very confusing, in my experience :)

[Gjest Hanne Line O. Eide]

Translation of (8):Good job, Torbjørn! Yes, I has also visited various sites on the net and read about Slovakia's history and find it not unlikely that they in censuses can also stand as native of Austria. I looked at a family in Chicago yesterday, but was so unsure that I did not put it in here. They live in Illinois Street, same street as Andrew in the registration card - but apparently not the same house number. The country of birth is recorded as Austria - but the 'mother tongue' is 'Slovec'! The profession looks to me like it could be 'Seamster'You can look at this family and say what you think:Name: Anna Szlusoz [Anna Szalaooz] [Anna Szluooz?] Home in 1920: Chicago Ward 21, Cook (Chicago), Illinois Age: 27 Estimated birth year: abt 1893 Birthplace: Austria Relation to Head of House: Wife Spouse's name: Andrew Szlusoz Father's Birthplace: Austria Mother's Birth Place: Austria Marital status: Married Race: White Sex: Female Year of immigration: 1907 Able to read: Yes Able two Write: Yes(Hope you can translate some of what I write to Waldron, Torbjørn. It is nearly 50 years since I left school, so my written English is not so good now :)

[Gjest Arne Solås]

Mange takk for oversettelsen Hanne Line :)

[Gjest Waldron Faulkner]

'Seamster' is probably 'teamster', which is a dock worker. Many eastern European immigrants were in this profession in port towns, and Chicago was certainly that. So it's a good connection, but not too definitive.I'll check out beta.familysearch.org, those are definitely the birth certificates of his children. I hadn't thought of spelling Anna's name 'Coleman', which is an anglicized spelling of Kolman and a very likely error for an American records-keeper to transcribe from a verbal discussion.Thanks all, this is helping. There doesn't seem to be a very active _online_ Slovenian genealogical research community. They want me to write snail-mail.

[Gjest Torbjørn Igelkjøn]

I gave myself a lot of work trying to look up 105 East Illinois Street (the address at the birth certificate from november 1920) via ED convertion tools at stevemorse.org and browsing 1920 census at Ancestry - just to find that I ended up with the same family as in (8) at this address, and a lot of wasted time! No doubt that it is the right ones, even their mother tongue is Slovek according to this census, instead of Slovenian.

[Gjest Torbjørn Igelkjøn]

For information purpose, here is the family in 1930: 1930 United States Federal Census about Anna Slavic Name: Anna Slavic Home in 1930: Chicago, Cook, Illinois View Map Age: 37 Estimated birth year: abt 1893 Birthplace: Yugoslavia Relation to Head of House: Head Race: White Occupation:Education:Military Service:Rent/home value:Age at first marriage:Parents' birthplace: View image Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Anna Slavic 37 Anna Slavic 11 Mary Slavic 6 Helen Slavic 2 Andrew Slavic 9 Steve Slavic 4According to (7), Andrew (Sr.) died in 1928.And here is a Wikipedia article about Turnišče: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turniš?e

[Gjest Torbjørn Igelkjøn]

Of course, that did not work here in Brukarforum. I try again: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turniš?e

[Gjest Torbjørn Igelkjøn]

Well, I just took a google search for the name in (1), then the wikipedia article comes up as one of the hits.

[Gjest Waldron Faulkner]

This is crazy... birth certificates discovered at beta.familysearch.orgIn Chicago, there were two Andrews and Annas - one 'Slaveck' and one 'Slavic'. One of the Anna's was Kolman, the other Coleman (pronounced exactly the same in English). Both couples had daughters named 'Anna', and they born one day apart. One couple was from Hungary, the other from Yugoslavia. Both Andrews were born in 1889/90. The Annas were born 1892 and 1894. One was a teamster, the other a factory worker.If that weren't enough, there's a possibility they both also had daughters named 'Rose' before their Annas. The Rose for which I discovered a birth certificate at beta.familysearch is the Hungarian couple's (the 'wrong' couple, from Hungary, who doesn't match the limited family data we have). I'm told by my mother in law that the 'right' couple (the Yugoslavian one) had a daughter named Rose who died shortly after she was born. Thus, she wouldn't appear in the handy 1930 Census where we have the 'right' Anna Slavic (all the right children) living in Chicago.Of course, I see nothing in the 1920 Censuses for EITHER family, yet, but I'll take another look.The draft card for Andrew Slavecz could now belong to EITHER one, I guess, but since it's Hungary, it could be the 'wrong' one.I'm also investigating the source of the internal family data. Perhaps someone discovered this on their own and made a wrong assumption after they found an Andrew and Anna Kolman/Coleman Slaveck/Slavic in Chicago. Maybe the Hungarian couple is the right one afterall.23andme.com has a sale today on DNA kits. We've decided to give this as a Christmas gift to my mother in law, the grand-child of the couple in question... perhaps she'll make some interesting connections that way. It was through such a connection that I made my connection to Guri Pauldotter Staaland Hanson!

[Gjest Torbjørn Igelkjøn]

Are you certain that these two couples are not the same? If you look at one of the Annas, the certificate is filed the day after she was born, in 1918. This was before the first world war ended, so they were then still 'Hungarians'. Note that the last one is filed in 1935, and her parents would now be 'Yugoslavians', as they also were in the 1930 census, which you agree are the right family. Of course, the address of 1935 would not be the same as the address of 1918. For some reason, Anna must have needed a new birth certificate.The family Arne found in post #8 above from the 1920 census at Ancestry live at the same address as Andrew Slaveck was born on nov. 20th 1920. 105 East Illinois Street. So this Andrew Slaveck is the son of this family. The census call their birthplace Austria, and their mother tongue Slovek (not Slovakian or Slovenian!!) and has an other spelling of the surname, but the censuses are full of errors. The birth certificate call the parents´ birthplace Hungary, even though it in 1920 would be in the newly formed Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (later called Yugoslavia). But still, it was in (Austria-)Hungary they were born, so Hungary as their birthplace is not wrong.The birth certificate from 1920 also mentions that one child is dead, the same is mentioned in that of 1935, but not in that of 1918. It seems like the family has been moving around a bit from 1917 (Rose), 1917 (WW1 reg.), 1918 (Anna) to 1920 (census Andrew), but I am still convinced that it is the same family all the time.

[Gjest Torbjørn Igelkjøn]

Familysearch: Illinois, Cook County Deaths, 1878-1922 for Rose SlavezName Rose Slavez Titles & Terms Death Date 29 Apr 1917 Death Place Chicago, Cook, Illinois Gender Female Race (Original) W Race (Standardized) White Death Age 3m 19d Estimated Birth Year Birth Date 11 Jan 1917 Birthplace Illinois Marital Status Spouse Spouse's Titles & Terms Father Andrew Slavez Father's Titles & Terms Father's Birthplace Austria Mother Annie Colman Mother's Titles & Terms Mother's Birthplace Austria Occupation at home Street Address 149 E. Grand Ave. Residence Chicago, Cook, Illinois Cemetery Bohemian Natl. Burial Place Burial Date 30 Apr 1917 Funeral Home Informant Additional Relatives Film Number 1309053 Digital Folder Number 4005131 Image Number 1149 Reference Number 14424There is also an image of the death certificate.

[Gjest Torbjørn Igelkjøn]

Social Security Death Index about Andrew Slaveck Name: Andrew Slaveck SSN: 352-09-9818 Last Residence: 83864 Sandpoint, Bonner, Idaho, United States of America Born: 20 Nov 1920 Died: 20 Mar 1994 State (Year) SSN issued: Illinois (Before 1951)

[Gjest Arne Solås]

Immigrasjonen?Name: Andras Szlavics Arrival Date: 24 Jan 1907 Birth Year: abt 1889 Birth Location: Hungary Birth Location Other: belatincz Age: 18 Gender: Female Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: Slovakian Port of Departure: Bremen Port of Arrival: New York, New York Ship Name: YorckBelantinz finnes i Slovenia og er ikke ulikt det som står i registreringskortet: Beladin/Brladin.

[Gjest Arne Solås]

Belatincz er rette skrivemåten - ikke Belantinz :)

[Gjest Arne Solås]

Er ikke sikker på om denne lenken blir stående: http://www.worldcitydb.com/belatincz_9225930.aspx

[Gjest Waldron Faulkner]

I think we've got them! Belatincz/Belatinci is 4 miles / 6km from Turnišče! This makes much more sense. I saw the 1930's date on the one birth certificate, but wondered if perhaps it hadn't been a re-processed or re-filed original from 1917. Good thinking, Torbjørn!Arne, I think that might be our man's immigration, that's something I hadn't been able to find. I still wonder about the Slovakian nationality and the Female gender. But it also gives me a new name to research, especially back in the old country!Thanks, both!