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mark ratcliffe

Search for Raynert Anderson b.1841 approx

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mark ratcliffe   
mark ratcliffe

Just trying to locate prior descendants of my Great Great Grandfather, Raynert Anderson? who came from Norway, approx 1858. Born approx 1841. Died in Australia 3/1/1895 aged 54.

 

We don't know his exact birthdate as we have never found any sign of him coming from Norway.

We believe he may have changed his surname to RATCLIFFE, once he arrived in Australia, to avoid persecution. We have no ship's records of hin entering Australia & don't even know the arrival date.

 

We don't know where in Norway he may have come from, however his Mothers name was Alice

& his Father's name was Raynert, he was a farmer (it states this on his Australian Marriage Certificate).

My understanding is that Raynert is a relatively rare name, but Anderson is more common.

Has anyone got any clues as to where I would begin my search? For my allusive G.G.Grandfather

Thanks

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Litta   
Litta

Hi Mark

 

I have tried to see if I could find anything, but so far without any result.

 

You say that his fathers name was Raynert (here probably Reinert or Reinhart). If he called himself Andersen, I would suspect that this was his fathers surname. Usually a person at that time with a father called Reinert would be called Reinertsen (= Reinert's son). Be aware of that, if you search records elsewhere.

 

Do you have a copy of the marriage certificate ? Do you find him in any Australian census records ?

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Erik Døving   
Erik Døving

So Raynert Anderson was your great-great-grandfather or was that the name of his father?

 

You can try to search emigrant/ship records, but note that 1858 was an early emigration so records does not seem to be comprehensive from that time.

 

In the 1801 census I find 70 "Reinert", 4 "Reinhard" and 1 "Reinhart", no "Raynert". My impression is that "Reinert" was most common in the Agder district plus around the city of Bergen at that time.

 

For instance at Agdestein, Stord island, there was in 1801 a Reinert Andersen (age 52), one son called Reinert (8), older son called Anders Reinertsen (age 25), and Anders' son called Reinert Andersen (age 3). This was typical for the naming traditions in Norway: the same names were used for generations typically grandfather's name and sometimes father's own name to sons.

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Kari Sandberg   
Kari Sandberg

According to Death Index Andersen might be his mother's maiden name, not Raynert`s surname. (Elise Andersdatter = Andersen)

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Erik Døving   
Erik Døving

You can try to search for Elise/Alise in the 1865 census (assuming she was still alive): If Raynert was born in 1841, his mother was probably born roughly between 1800 and 1820 (may also be in the 1801 census). So limit the search this period.

http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/sok/1865

 

If Andersen/Anderson was father's surname, then I find only one candidate in the 1865 census: Reinert Andersen of Agdesten (Stord island), born in 1799 he was 42 when Raynert was born. If this is the right one, then Raynert had an older broder Anders (born 1825) and according to laws/traditions he would keep the farm.

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Kari Sandberg   
Kari Sandberg

There are several Reinert Andersens in the 1865 Census that could be his father.

According to Death Index his father`s name was Reynart too, - Raynerts Ratcliffe`s name should then be Reinert Reinertsen.

Why did he use the name Ratcliffe ? From a farm called Rotneberg, Rot .... or ??

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Erik Døving   
Erik Døving

Yes, you are right, Reinert Andersen (born 1816, old enough to be Raynert's father) in Egersund is another candiate:

http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01038201000240

 

Reinert Andersen (b 1822) at Hvaler apparently married again, so he could have been married to "Alice":

http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01037983000330

 

Same for this Reinert:

http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01038167000066

 

This one near Mandal born 1809 also married again (children listed are "her").

http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01038174000228

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Jon Erik Berg-Hansen   
Jon Erik Berg-Hansen

Reinert Andersen from Hvaler is not the correct father: His first wife was Karen Oline Jacobsdatter.

 

Why should Reinert in Mandal parish be the one - her children - her second marriage!

 

Reinert in Høvåg is not the correct father - his wife was the mother of all the children in that family.

 

The wife of Reinert in Eigersund was Marte Margrete Olsdatter.

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Litta   
Litta

His last name might not be Andersen at all.

 

I think it is better to focus on the mother and the fact that the son probably is called Reinert Reinertsen, when he is in Norway and at the time of his departure.

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Erik Døving   
Erik Døving

Why should Reinert in Mandal parish be the one - her children - her second marriage!

 

About Reinert in Mandal: Because it is her second marriage, he might also be in his second marriage and have children older than her children (for instance one that emigrated to Australia). If Alice (Alis, Alise or Elise) can not be found in the 1865 records, she was probably deceased and Reinert is in 1865 a widower or married again. I was only trying to isolate possible candidates.

 

Many "if"s in this challenge so very difficult to explore all options. :)

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mark ratcliffe   
mark ratcliffe

Thanks to ALL for the great responses. As we have a big time difference (in Australia), I wasn't able to respond to your questions earlier. I will attempt to provide some feedback to your questions, in one response rather than 3 or 4 replies

 

LITTA OLSEN :- Thanks for your informative replies

1.Yes I have seen the thumbnail you attached. No one on An cestory.com has any more information than me, as far as I can see.

2. I Do you have a copy of his ( Australian ) Marriage Certificate. Dated 4/12/1867.

It clearly states : Father's name was Raynert. A farmer from Norway. His Mother's name Alice Anderson.

3. The only reason, I believe his surname may have been Andersen, is because there is NO RAYNERT RATCLIFFE to be found in

Norway or England. I think when he come to Australia he may have kept his FIRST NAME (Raynert), then changed his surname

from Anderson to RATCLIFFE (because it would be more accepted in his new home Australia).

4. The only certainty I think is Raynert came from Norway. Had a Father named Raynert & a Mother named Alice Anderson.

I am specifically looking for a person with the above born around 1841.

I am yet to find a sibling of Raynert or any trace of his Father, Mother, Uncle or Aunt.

 

ERIK DOVING:- Thanks for your input

5. No my G G Grandfather's name was RAYNERT RATCLIFFE, but refer to point #3 above.

6. Thanks for looking up the 1801 Cencus

7. This is exactly the type information I need. Naming Conventions through the generations. I found a Raynert N Andersen born

21/1/1918, died 20/5/2006, a farmer from North Dakota, USA. I feel that if I had a better understanding of the Norweign

traditional naming conventions, this Raynert N Andersen, could be related to my family.

As R N A he had a father named Andrew b.1888 d.1974 & maybe his G. Father was my Raynert's original father? born about

1815-1825?

8. Great to see the 4 possible Raynert's you have linked me to.

9. I agree we need to explore all options? We are looking for a tiny thread.

10. " If Andersen/Anderson was father's surname, then I find only one candidate in the 1865 census: Reinert Andersen of Agdesten

(Stord island), born in 1799 he was 42 when Raynert was born. If this is the right one, then Raynert had an older brother

Anders (born 1825) and according to laws/traditions he would keep the farm" If this is pausibale, does this mean there maybe

a descendant living on Stord Island?

 

KARI SANBERG :- Thanks

11. Why did he use the name Ratcliffe? From a farm called Rotneberg, Rot .... or ??

Yes your suggestion plausable. But refer my point 3 above.

It's funny he had 9 children & gave them ALL mainly English names; Charles, Albert, Francis, Ada Mary, Alice Emma, Walter,

Arthur, William & Oscar. Maybe strongly influenced from his English wife (Mary Ann).

There was a ship that came to Australia called "the Ratcliffe" - in the 1850's - I have even gone through the ships crew &

passenger lsit. To no avail.

12. Andersen might be his mother's maiden name, not Raynert`s surname. I agree with your finding. I'm trying ALL alternatives..

But please read my point #3 & #7 above.

 

THANK YOU ALL, again for ALL your efforts!

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Erik Døving   
Erik Døving

With so little information searching through the options is perhaps the only way, unless somebody happen to know about some Reinert that left for Australia (or perhaps he original emigrated to Britain). Many rural communities have compiled comprehensive "catalogues" of all family relations in that community, often covering the last 3-400 years. These books are typically called "ættebok" (book of ancestry and kinship) or "bygdebok", often organised by parish. So for instance if you feel that Reinert at Stord is a good candidate, next is perhaps to consult "ættebok" for Stord or perhaps private resources. Agdestein farm on Stord I guess is covered by Stord Bygdebok (Ole Høyland, 1966).

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Litta   
Litta

I did check the parish records of Stord, but found no Reinert with a father called Reinert born around 1841. I also checked the confirmations. No Reinert, I am afraid.

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