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Geir Asheim

Mormonerer i Norge

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Geir Asheim

Er det noen i dette forum som har kjennskap til når mormonersekten ble "innført" i Norge og spesielt i Rogaland? Grunnen til spørsmålet er at eg er kommet i kontakt med noen i USA som trolig, gjenstår å få det endelig bekreftet, er etterkommer av en Osmund Guttormsen fra Talgje/Finnøy i Rogaland som emigrerte til USA i 1837. Ved immigrasjonen blir det opplyst at han var en ivrig mormoner.  Dette synes eg er litt rart all den tid den første mormonerkirke ble bygget i 1830 i USA(i følge Wikipedia). Kan denne trosretningen ha kommet til Norge så tidlig som før 1837?

På førehand takk

 

http://gda.arkivverket.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=5&filnamn=STAV&gardpostnr=60353&merk=60353#ovre

 

 

Geir Asheim

Edited by Geir Asheim

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Geir Asheim

Tusen takk. I følge Norsk kirkehistorie begynte ikke mormonerene sin virksomheten i Norge før i 1852. Hvordan kunne "min mann" allerede i 1837 være "ivrig mormoner"?  Nei, lett skal det ikke være. :-)

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Espen Tjernshaugen

Kilden din er en database, da kan det være interessant å prøve å finne ut hva som egentlig er grunnlaget for dataene i denne basen. Er det samtidige passasjerlister eller er det hentet fra andre kilder skrevet i ettertid?, var denne utvandreren utenlands før dette (f. eks. som sjømann)?

 

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Grethe Flood

Kanskje det bare er en merknad? Det står en kolonne som kalles "anna" og denne databasen over emigranter er en rekonstruert database. Kanskje han ble en ivrig mormoner i årene etter at han var kommet over til USA? 

 

Er han for øvrig identisk med nr. 44 på denne passasjerlista og resten av familien, kone og barn, er nr. 45-50?

 

http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_list.asp?jo=544&ps=246

 

 

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Grethe Flood

Jeg finner denne engelske oversettelsen av Tysvær bygdebok på nettet - forfattet av Svein Ivar Langhelle: http://www.wheelerfolk.org/slooper/vol_9_translation/tysver_vol_9_final.htm.

 

Her sakser jeg følgende:

 

"Osmund Guttormsen Erland had been a farmer in Skjold but had moved to Tastad near Stavanger.  Osmund had refused to baptize his son, Guttorm, who was born to him and his wife, Berta, in 1826.  After pressure from the priest helper, Guttorm was baptized when he was 9 months old.  It was said, that was Berta's will, probably to avoid punishment intended by Swensen.  The priest did not know who had convinced Osmund to become a Quaker. 

Swensen had some complaints about Osmund Guttormsen.  Over a period of time there were several instances where he had lived apart from Berta.  They neither shared house nor bed.  The priest did not know if the son was born during the 5 years declared as the divorce period.  But the priest knew that Osmund in 1825 had a son, Erik, by his maidservant, Synnøve Simonsdatter from Straumen belonging to Straum."

 

(...)

Several Tysvær Quakers emigrated to America in 1825.  In 1827, Torbjørn Knutsen worked in Stavanger, Samuel Jakobsen and Tormod Olsen had moved to Stavanger, Knut Pedersen lived on Finnøy, Osmund Guttormsen lived in Tastad where Elias Nilsen also settled in 1828.  Lars Osmundsen Brekke did likewise.  In 1828 he still lived at Lindehola, where his daughter Berta Gurine was born.  But he must have left in 1830.  In 1838 and 1839 the two Quakers, Erik Knutsen Svinali and his sister, Siri, emigrated.

On March 15, 1828, Torbjørn Knutsen Svinali, Knut Andersen Slogvik and Søren Eriksen Stakland sought to live as Quakers at their homes at Skjold and Tysvær.  They stated that they were not members of the Quaker society, but did not have the "conscience to follow the Lutheran rituals."  They stated that they never had been enticed or pressured to become Quakers.  The authorities set aside their petitions, and therefore they broke the law by living at their homes.  Knut Slogvik soon emigrated to America, Torbjørn Knutsen moved away from Skjold, while Søren Stakland bore all disadvantages he had by staying at home.  It was not until 1833 that Søren applied for membership in the Quaker society in Stavanger.

Many Quakers followed the rituals ordered by the church in spite of their Quaker belief.  The explanation is only that they wanted to avoid problems with the authority, lawsuits and fines.  It was also very difficult to give up the rituals that played such a big role in the society at that time.

 

Osmund Guttormsen Erland was still living at Tastad near Stavanger in March 1828, but moved later to Meling on Talgje where he took over Knut Olsen's farm. This Knut was Knut Eide, who went to America in 1821 together with Cleng Peerson.  Osmund moved to Meling between 1827 and 1830, maybe as early as 1828.  It seemed that he had taken with him the servant boy Eilif Olsen from Berg belonging to Gaupås.  In 1837 Osmund emigrated to America and a short time later, he left his Quaker belief.

 

Torbjørn Knutsen Svinali lived out his life on the same farm on Meling.  Torbjørn lived at Bringedal in 1830, is said to have lived in Sandnes and came to Meling not later than 1841.  When Osmund Guttormsen left for America in 1837 relatives of Torbjørn took over the farm. Torbjørn died at Meling in 1842.

 

Kanskje du skal prøve å få tak eller få noen til å gjøre et oppslag i bygdeboka for Tysvær? Slik jeg leser teksten over, så var Osmund Guttormsen opprinnelig kveker, men forlot denne troen kort tid etter at han kom til Amerika. 

 

 

Edited by Grethe Flood

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Geir Asheim

Kanskje det bare er en merknad? Det står en kolonne som kalles "anna" og denne databasen over emigranter er en rekonstruert database. Kanskje han ble en ivrig mormoner i årene etter at han var kommet over til USA? 

 

Er han for øvrig identisk med nr. 44 på denne passasjerlista og resten av familien, kone og barn, er nr. 45-50?

 

http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_list.asp?jo=544&ps=246

Har vært inne på samme tanke at det muligens var blitt notert i ettertid.

Nr 44 er samme mann. 

Jeg finner denne engelske oversettelsen av Tysvær bygdebok på nettet - forfattet av Svein Ivar Langhelle: http://www.wheelerfolk.org/slooper/vol_9_translation/tysver_vol_9_final.htm.

 

Her sakser jeg følgende:

 

"Osmund Guttormsen Erland had been a farmer in Skjold but had moved to Tastad near Stavanger.  Osmund had refused to baptize his son, Guttorm, who was born to him and his wife, Berta, in 1826.  After pressure from the priest helper, Guttorm was baptized when he was 9 months old.  It was said, that was Berta's will, probably to avoid punishment intended by Swensen.  The priest did not know who had convinced Osmund to become a Quaker. 

Swensen had some complaints about Osmund Guttormsen.  Over a period of time there were several instances where he had lived apart from Berta.  They neither shared house nor bed.  The priest did not know if the son was born during the 5 years declared as the divorce period.  But the priest knew that Osmund in 1825 had a son, Erik, by his maidservant, Synnøve Simonsdatter from Straumen belonging to Straum."

 

(...)

Several Tysvær Quakers emigrated to America in 1825.  In 1827, Torbjørn Knutsen worked in Stavanger, Samuel Jakobsen and Tormod Olsen had moved to Stavanger, Knut Pedersen lived on Finnøy, Osmund Guttormsen lived in Tastad where Elias Nilsen also settled in 1828.  Lars Osmundsen Brekke did likewise.  In 1828 he still lived at Lindehola, where his daughter Berta Gurine was born.  But he must have left in 1830.  In 1838 and 1839 the two Quakers, Erik Knutsen Svinali and his sister, Siri, emigrated.

On March 15, 1828, Torbjørn Knutsen Svinali, Knut Andersen Slogvik and Søren Eriksen Stakland sought to live as Quakers at their homes at Skjold and Tysvær.  They stated that they were not members of the Quaker society, but did not have the "conscience to follow the Lutheran rituals."  They stated that they never had been enticed or pressured to become Quakers.  The authorities set aside their petitions, and therefore they broke the law by living at their homes.  Knut Slogvik soon emigrated to America, Torbjørn Knutsen moved away from Skjold, while Søren Stakland bore all disadvantages he had by staying at home.  It was not until 1833 that Søren applied for membership in the Quaker society in Stavanger.

Many Quakers followed the rituals ordered by the church in spite of their Quaker belief.  The explanation is only that they wanted to avoid problems with the authority, lawsuits and fines.  It was also very difficult to give up the rituals that played such a big role in the society at that time.

 

Osmund Guttormsen Erland was still living at Tastad near Stavanger in March 1828, but moved later to Meling on Talgje where he took over Knut Olsen's farm. This Knut was Knut Eide, who went to America in 1821 together with Cleng Peerson.  Osmund moved to Meling between 1827 and 1830, maybe as early as 1828.  It seemed that he had taken with him the servant boy Eilif Olsen from Berg belonging to Gaupås.  In 1837 Osmund emigrated to America and a short time later, he left his Quaker belief.

 

Torbjørn Knutsen Svinali lived out his life on the same farm on Meling.  Torbjørn lived at Bringedal in 1830, is said to have lived in Sandnes and came to Meling not later than 1841.  When Osmund Guttormsen left for America in 1837 relatives of Torbjørn took over the farm. Torbjørn died at Meling in 1842.

 

Kanskje du skal prøve å få tak eller få noen til å gjøre et oppslag i bygdeboka for Tysvær? Slik jeg leser teksten over, så var Osmund Guttormsen opprinnelig kveker, men forlot denne troen kort tid etter at han kom til Amerika. 

Tusen takk. Dette var interessant. Eg skal konferere med min mann i USA og høre om han har noen meninger  om dette.

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Grethe Flood

Har vært inne på samme tanke at det muligens var blitt notert i ettertid.

Nr 44 er samme mann. 

 

Det ser ut som bygdeboka for Tysvær konkluderer med det samme. At Osmund var kveker og skiftet trossamfunn etter ankomsten til Amerika. 

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Grethe Flood

Fant en bok på Nasjonalbibliotekets bokhylla som heter "Lys over Lars Hertervig, og kvekerne i Tysvær", skrevet av Martin Nag. På side 84 er et kapitel med tittelen: Thomas Swensen: Fortegnelse foregivne Qvækere i Skjold Præstegjæld, der ingen Legitimation have. - Skjolds Præstegaard, d. 3die Septbr. 1827. 

 

Hvis du blar deg videre, vil du se at Osmund Guttormsen er nevnt. Her en lenke til boka, og jeg håper den fungerer:

 

http://www.nb.no/nbsok/nb/96771f4405df7d2638dbe96b09c26457?index=8#85

 

 

 

 

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Geir Asheim

Da eg la inn mitt spørsmål så var håpet at kanskje noen hadde litt kjennskap til min problemstilling. Så viser det seg at eg får opplysninger om at den godeste Osmund er bort i mot hovedperson i sin krets. Eg kan bare gjenta meg selv; Dette forum er unikt. Takk for bidragene.

 

En liten forklaring på hvordan dette kom opp. Eg har DNA testet meg og lagt mine data opp på bl.a GedMatch. Bland mange treff så tok eg kontakt med en som skulle være i slekt med meg ca 5 ledd bakover. 

Eg fikk tilgang til hans slektstre på Ancestry.com, Vedkommende opplyste, etter det han kjente til, så kom noen av hans forfedre fra Stavanger. Etter en del nøsting på begge sider av Atlanterhavet, kom vi frem til disse personene og at de hadde bodd på Meling på Talgje og fra Skjold i Tysvær, i tillegg så var kona til Osmund fra Sørvåg i Avaldsnes. Mer midt i norsk gammel historie er det knapt mulig å komme.

 

Hvordan eg er i slekt med denne mannen i USA, det forblir ett mysterium. Alle mine aner på far min side er så godt som alle fra Bjerkreim med noen få avstikkere til nabokommuner, men ikke til Ryfylke med omegn. Min mors aner er fra Ringerike og Romerike, der noen av røttene strekker seg til Karelen i Finland via Finnskogen.

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