Frideric Ludowic Tuchsen

[Arnulf Strømsnes]

Hvem var foreldrene til Frideric Ludowic Tuchsen?

I kirkeboken for døpte i Korskirken i Bergen 1723 side 31 fant jeg følgende:

Februar: d: 6 Abigael, af For: Andreas Stub og Anna Ma-

ria Ottesdatter. Fadd: ............. Capit: Frideric Ludowic Tuchsen ............

 

Kan foreldrene være Johan Friedrich (Tuchs) Tuchsen og Maria (Maren Mench) Meng?

Navn, tid, sted og yrke passer bra. Han er ikke nevnt i skifte etter dem 1741, men da kan han være død uten arvinger.

Hans mulige søster Elisabeth Maria Tuchsen er heller ikke nevnt i skifte 1741, men da var hun og ektemannen og deres barn døde.

 

Olai Ovenstad har ikke med Frideric Ludowic Tuchsen i sine militærbiografier, men selv om Ovenstad har gjort et grundig arbeid så mangler som kjent noen personer.

Er det noen som har andre kilder for Frideric Ludowic Tuchsen? Jeg er meget takknemlig for kommentarer.

 

[Tore S. Falch]

En Fendric Johan Ludovic Tuchsen er blant fadderne til Hans Jørgen Sinchler og Anna Hansdatters datter Rebecca, døpt 11.september 1714 i Korskirken - Korskirken, Ministerialbok nr. A 3 (1698-1719), Fødte og døpte 1714, fol. 237a.

 

Kan det være snakk om samme mann, med en annen militær grad, men med første fornavn feilskrevet ved ett av tilfellene?

[Arnulf Strømsnes]

En Fendric Johan Ludovic Tuchsen er blant fadderne til Hans Jørgen Sinchler og Anna Hansdatters datter Rebecca, døpt 11.september 1714 i Korskirken - Korskirken, Ministerialbok nr. A 3 (1698-1719), Fødte og døpte 1714, fol. 237a.

 

Kan det være snakk om samme mann, med en annen militær grad, men med første fornavn feilskrevet ved ett av tilfellene?

 

Takk for raskt svar. Johan Ludovic Tuchsen er trolig bror til Frideric Ludowic Tuchsen.

Capit: Johan Ludovic Tüchsen var også fadder i Korskirken 16. mars 1724.

[Tore S. Falch]

Ja, her er dåpen til Lucas Jacob Krøpelin - se innførsel nr.3 på høyre oppslagsside her: Korskirken, Ministerialbok nr. A 4 (1720-1750), Fødte og døpte 1724, side 43.

 

Her ser vi at fadderen Johan Ludovic Tuchsen i 1724 er blitt kaptein, mens han altså var fenrik i 1714. Når fadderen for Abigael Stub i 1723 også benevnes som kaptein (Korskirken, Ministerialbok nr. A 4 (1720-1750), Fødte og døpte 1723, side 31), er det fristende å foreslå at Frideric er feilskrift for Johan og at fadderen ved disse tre dåpshandlingene er en og samme mann, nemlig fenrik, senere kaptein Johan Ludovic Tuchsen.

Endret Juni 16, 2015 av Tore S. Falch

[Arnulf Strømsnes]

Jeg har også vært inne på tanken at det er feilskrift men er ikke sikker.

[Berit Knudsen]

Johan Fredrik Tuchsen, død 1730, og Maria? Olsdt. Meng, død 1741, fikk bl.a. de 2 sønnene Johan Ludvig  og Fredrik Wilhelm.

 

Delgobe: militærslekten Tuchsen http://arkivverket.no/URN:db_read/db/43535/454/

 

Ang. Ovenstad så har han ikke med underoffisere.

Endret Juni 17, 2015 av Berit Knudsen

[Arnulf Strømsnes]

Takk for kommentar. Jeg kjenner til Delgobes notater men de inneholder noen feil. Johan Frederich Tuchsen (gift med Else Margrethe Wielsgaard) er ikke sønn av Johan Friedrich (Tuchs) Tuchsen og Maria (Maren Mench) Meng ifølge skifte etter dem. Han er sønn til Fredrik Wilhelm Tuchsen og hans første kone Martha Hansdatter (Rue?), Karen Marie Tuchsen er også deres datter. Flere detaljer og kilder på nettsidene mine http://stromsnes.info

Johan Fredrik Tuchsen, død 1730, og Maria? Olsdt. Meng, død 1741, fikk bl.a. de 2 sønnene Johan Ludvig  og Fredrik Wilhelm.

 

Delgobe: militærslekten Tuchsen http://arkivverket.no/URN:db_read/db/43535/454/

 

Ang. Ovenstad så har han ikke med underoffisere.

 

[Berit Knudsen]

Delgobe har vel skrevet at Johan Fredrik gm. Margrethe Wilsgård var SØNNESØNN av Johan Fr. Tuchsen og Marie/Maren Meng, og sønn av Fredrik Wilhelm.( Legg merke til at forbindelsen til Johan Ludvig er strøket og ny opprettet til Fredrik Wilhelm).

 

Det står ikke noe om en Fredrik Ludvig.

 

Kan det filnnes flere slekter som het Tuchsen? Kanskje det står noe om Fredik Ludvig i Hirsch ?

Endret Juni 18, 2015 av Berit Knudsen

[Karsten Damén]

Denne side af Jan Tuxen

 

http://www.tuxen.info/tuxen/andre_tuxen.htm

 

peger også på to forskellige slægter Tuchsen i Bergen:

 

” Der findes i Norge en slægt, som nedstammer fra en Elias Peter Tuchsen og dennes søn, Johan Frederik Tuchsen, f. 1660 i Kolberg i Pommern, den nuværende grænseegn mellem Tyskland og Polen. Johan Frederik Tuchsen udvandrede til Danmark, hvor han opholdt sig i nogle år. Her var han sekondløjtnant ved Hans Schacks bataljon, inden han drog til Norge, hvor han blev chef for garnisonskompagniet på Bergenhus fæstning, inden han blev kommandant samme sted fra 1712 til sin død i 1730. Navnet Tuchsen findes i efterslægten både som slægtsnavn og som mellemnavn, i flere slægtslinier ændret til staveformen Tuxen, dog uden at der kan påvises nogen forbindelse til vores slægt. Hvis du er interesseret i denne slægt, henviser jeg gerne til norske slægtsforskere, som arbejder med denne.

 

En anden norsk slægt nedstammer fra en købmand i Bergen Johan Frederik Tuchsen, f. ca. 1690, død i 1749. Han skal som skibsfører være kommet til Bergen og skal have stammet fra Lübeck. Stig Samuelsen, som er slægtsforsker i denne familie, har på trods af flere undersøgelser i arkiverne i Lübeck ikke kunnet finde ham der. Der er på trods af navneligheden heller ikke påvist nogen forbindelse til garnisonskommandanten af samme navn ovenfor. Nylige undersøgelser har dog påvist, at navnet Elias Peter bruges i de tidligste led i begge slægter. En interessant detalje er, at købmand J.F. Tuchsen var gift med Barbra Hansdatter Schnell. Navnet Schnell forekommer en del i Slesvig på den tid. Bl.a. findes en borgmester i Haderslev 1588-95 Johan Schnell, hvis svigersøn var Carsten Mechlenburg. Navnet Mechlenborg er brugt som mellemnavn i købmand J.F. Tuchsens og Barbra Schnells efterslægt, så måske skal oprindelsen til denne slægt søges i Slesvig, hvorfra altså også min slægt stammer. ”

 

Karsten

Endret Juni 18, 2015 av Karsten Damén

[Arnulf Strømsnes]

I kirkebøkene i Kolberg fant jeg for ca. 15 år siden Elias Petrus (Tuchs) Tuchsen (1631-1693. Han var borgermester, advokat, senator og sekretær i Kolberg. Jeg fant også hans to hustruer og deres barn, sønnen Johan Friedrich (Tuchs) Tuchsen (1660-1730) ble kommandant på Bergenhus, men han dro på besøk til slekten i Kolberg og hans kone gjorde det også etter hans død.

Jeg har også funnet foreldrene til Elias Petrus, det er Stadtgerichtsprokurator Peter Tuchs og Sophia Arnim. Jeg deler alt jeg har funnet med andre, men dessverre kopierer enkelte bilder og tekst og legger det til feil person. Dessverre er det vanskelig for mange å rette feil som er lagt inn på Geni, Myheritage, Family Tree, Family Serarch. De jødiske eierne er mer opptatt av å selge andres opplysninger enn å rette feil.

Sophia ektefellen til Peter Tuchs må ikke forveksles med Sophia (Arnheim/Arnimb) Arnim (1611-1665), hun var gift med David (Schütte/Schutzen) Schütze (1598-1652).

Noen har alt forvekslet disse to Sophia Arnim, jeg har begge i databasen min og der finner dere flere detaljer.

http://stromsnes.info

Blant de 34600 personene i databasen min finnes det også feil, men de er lett å rette opp hvis noen påpeker det. Selv om jeg har mye er jeg interessert i tips ikke bare om feil.

[Arnulf Strømsnes]

Kommandant på Bergenhus Johan Friedrich (Tuchs) Tuchsen (1660-1730) var gift med Maria (Maren Mench) Meng, hun ble gravlagt i Bergen 10. april 1740. Flere steder på internett finnes et bilde av henne, men jeg har ikke funnet noen som oppgir kilden til bildet (se linken). Hun kalles også Maria Tuchsen Meng. Håper noen kan gi meg tips om bildet.

[Carl-Henry Geschwind]

On 6/19/2015 at 3:11 AM, Arnulf Strømsnes said:

Sophia ektefellen til Peter Tuchs må ikke forveksles med Sophia (Arnheim/Arnimb) Arnim (1611-1665), hun var gift med David (Schütte/Schutzen) Schütze (1598-1652).

 

Please forgive me for replying in English. I can read Norwegian (and am fluent in German), but cannot write it.

 

A funeral sermon (Leichenpredigt in German, Ligprædiken in Danish) lengthy memorial in Latin was printed in Greifswald 7 October 1650 as part of an invitation to the funeral for Sophia Arnim, wife of Petrus Tucks, "Consistorii Ecclesiast. Gryphiswaldensis, ut & Judicii Urbani Procurator" (that is, judge for the ecclesiastical court in Greifswald and city court official /Stadtgerichtsprokurator advocate/barrister at both the ecclesiastical and the city court in Greifswald). This funeral sermon memorial has been digitised and can be seen at http://www.digitale-bibliothek-mv.de/viewer/object/PPN885478746/1/

 

At http://www.digitale-bibliothek-mv.de/viewer/image/PPN885478746/5 the sermon gives Sophia's genealogy. It states that she came from an "honest" Rostock family. Her father was Elias Arnimb, originally a burgher and merchant in Rostock, then "Ducalis Archimagirus, seu Quæstor Præfecturæ Dargunensis" - I interpret this to mean that he entered the service of the Duke of Mecklenburg and became a ducal official in Dargun (about 55 km southeast of Rostock; see https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dargun). Elias in turn was son of Rev. Cornelius Arnimb, court preacher to Duke Ulrich of Mecklenburg ("ac Domini DN. Ulrici Duci Megapolensis p. mem. Concionator aulicus"), and his wife Catharina Frosten. Elias Arnimb was married to Margareta Schröder, daughter of Rostock city councilor ("Senator Urbis Rostochiensis" = raadsmand) Otto Schröder and his wife Agneta Bolten.

 

On the next page (http://www.digitale-bibliothek-mv.de/viewer/object/PPN885478746/6/) the sermon states that Sophia on 18 November 1629 married Petrus Tucksen, at that time secretary of the Duke of Mecklenburg's council in Friedland ("tum temporis Consilii intimioris Ducalis Friedlandensis in Megapoli Secretario"), about 110 km east-southeast of Rostock and 50 km south of Greifswald.

 

On this and the next page (http://www.digitale-bibliothek-mv.de/viewer/object/PPN885478746/7/) the sermon then states that Sophia had five children with Petrus: their first-born, Elias Petrus, who is studying law, and four girls who have all died, including Euphrosina, Elisabetha, and Regina.

 

It then states that she suffered a stroke on St. Michaels Day (29 September 1650). Her condition worsened the following Tuesday (which I believe would be 1 October 1650), and she died the next day (which I believe would be 2 October 1650) between 7 and 8 in the morning, age 51 years and 6 months (which would put her birth in spring 1599).

Endret Mars 14, 2019 av Carl-Henry Geschwind

[Carl-Henry Geschwind]

On 6/19/2015 at 3:11 AM, Arnulf Strømsnes said:

Sophia ektefellen til Peter Tuchs må ikke forveksles med Sophia (Arnheim/Arnimb) Arnim (1611-1665), hun var gift med David (Schütte/Schutzen) Schütze (1598-1652).

 

At least according to a local history in Latin published in 1706 (the Analecta Güstroviensia by Friedrich Thomas, on pp. 122-123 of the biographical part, accessible, at least in the US, at https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hx3jiz;view=1up;seq=395), the Sophia Arnim who was the wife of David Schüze (here given a death date of 1651) was also from Rostock and the granddaughter of Cornelius Arnim. The two Sophias were thus apparently cousins, the daughters of two brothers (the 1706 history unfortunately does not list the father of Sophia Arnim, wife of David Schüze). This family relationship is probably why Elias Petrus Tucks contributed a memorial verse to a volume of memorials to David Schützen (the husband of his mother's cousin) published in 1650 (!) - digitised at http://rosdok.uni-rostock.de/mcrviewer/recordIdentifier/rosdok_ppn775787191/iview2/phys_0014.iview2

 

The 1706 history has this to say about Cornelius: "religionis causa a Duce Albano ex Geldria patria pulsum, postea Ulrici, Christophori & Caroli, Duc. Mecleb. in juventute Præceptorem aulicum ac primum Evangelicum Pastorem ac Præpositum in Eldena." In other words, he had been chased because of his religion from his native Gelderland by the Duke of Alba, then became tutor to the sons of the Duke of Mecklenburg and later a priest in Eldena (about 110 km south-southeast of Rostock). Note that the capital of Gelderland (now a province of the Netherlands) is Arnhem (https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelderland); this is probably the source of his family name.

 

Note that the chronology doesn't quite make sense here - the Duke of Alba was a Catholic general who tried to suppress a revolt in the Netherlands 1567-1573 (see https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Álvarez_de_Toledo#Alba_i_Nederlandene), but the three named ducal sons are the sons of Duke Albrecht VII of Mecklenburg, born 1528 (Ulrich), 1537 (Christoph), and 1540 (Karl) (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albrecht_VII,_Duke_of_Mecklenburg), so if he was their tutor in their youth, he must have left Gelderland a decade or two before the Duke of Alba appeared there.

[Arnulf Strømsnes]

Thanks for new information. Here's something more I've found:

Cornelius Arnim, Pastor in Eldenau, ehemals Prinzen-Instruktor, oo Anna Rodatz, ...
Quelle:
Geschlechter der Hansestadt Rostock im 13.-18. Jahrhundert. Seite 82 https://books.google.es/books?id=ioxmAAAAMAAJ&q="Cornelius+Arnim"&dq="Cornelius+Arnim"&hl=no&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiIn8Kd8YvhAhUuUBUIHb7LDd0Q6AEIRzAE

 

Eldena
Cornelius ARNHEIM (1542-1553/63?)
oo Anna RODATZ (V.: Friedrich RODATZ, Grabow);
vor 1542 Präceptor von Schwerin
Quelle:
http://griesegegend-online.de/pastor.htm

 

Cornelius Arnim, Pastor in Eldenau, ehemals Prinzen-Instruktor, oo Anna Rodatz, To d. Bürger Friedrich Rodatz in Grabow/Mecklbg.
Quelle:
Geschlechter der Hansestadt Rostock im 13.-18. Jahrhundert - Side 82
https://books.google.es/books?id=ioxmAAAAMAAJ&q="Friedrich+Rodatz"+Grabow&dq="Friedrich+Rodatz"+Grabow&hl=no&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi5spCW4o3hAhUNQxUIHbeXBoYQ6AEIKDAA

 

Cornelius Arnheim von 1542 bis 1553 al. 1563
(Aufschrift einer früheren Tafel am Altar der Kirche zu Eldena) 
Quelle:
Kunst- Und Geschichts-Denkm?ler Des Grossherzogthums Mecklenburg-Schwerin

https://books.google.es/books?id=7ukLAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA199&lpg=PA199&dq="Cornelius+Arnheim+von+1542+bis+1553"&source=bl&ots=q8VbIg_7BM&sig=ACfU3U3LePLjmPTJH745ioc5OLFlWRUZ2w&hl=no&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj4lvjq343hAhW5UBUIHWg1AjMQ6AEwAHoECAEQAQ#v=onepage&q="Cornelius Arnheim von 1542 bis 1553"&f=false

Friedrich Rodatz have a son: Rodatz, Bürgermeister von Grabow (south of Schwerin)
https://gw.geneanet.org/cvpolier?lang=en&iz=0&p=friedrich&n=rodatz

[Per Nermo]

.

The two (cousins ?) Sophia Arnim seem to have been born appr. 12 years apart (1599/1611),

as were maybe also their fathers (Elias and NN), again perhaps sons of different wives

of Cornelius Arnheim (Arnim): Catharina Frosten and Anna Rodatz, respectively ?

.

[Carl-Henry Geschwind]

More on Elias Arnim, burgher of Rostock:

 

In 1595 Elias Arnim, together with Otto Schroder and four other burghers of Rostock, served as guarantor on a tenancy contract for the estate Dummerstorf (this contract then became the subject of a court case in 1619, the file for which is preserved at the State Archive in Schwerin - see https://ariadne-portal.uni-greifswald.de/?s=Elias Arnim&cont=&strict=1&type=obj&digi=0)

 

In 1595 Rostock merchant Elias Arnim was also involved in an exchange of letters concerning a foreign merchant who was buying up grain in the surrounding area. See https://books.google.com/books?id=r89DAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA143&dq="Elias+Arnim"&hl=no&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjMtNKGkI7hAhWOT98KHZZfDpcQ6AEISzAF#v=onepage&q="Elias Arnim"&f=false

 

Elias Arnim died in 1603, according to a chronicle written in 1625. See http://www.digitale-bibliothek-mv.de/viewer/object/PPNStaHRO_RostockerChroniken_Schorler/170/ (the name Elias Arnim is the very first name at the top of this page; the entry begins on the previous page, where the last paragraph starts "Es sind auch in diesem 1603 viel andere vornehme bürger unnd frauen gestorben, als [and here the list of names begins]").

 

He had another daughter besides Sophia. Her name was Margareta Arnim (1595-1631), who married Martin Siller in 1615. Her funeral sermon in 1631 listed the same ancestors (i.e. parents Elias Arnim and Margareta Schröder, grandparents Cornelius Arnim, Otto Schröder, and Agneta Bolten - but name of Cornelius Arnim's wife was unknown to this preacher). See http://www.digitale-bibliothek-mv.de/viewer/image/774759720/10

 

The memorial for Sophia Arnimb stated that she was orphaned and that from 1611 to 1629 she lived in Lutheran women's convents, first at Ribnitz and then at the Holy Cross Convent in Rostock (http://www.digitale-bibliothek-mv.de/viewer/image/PPN885478746/6). In the State Archive in Schwerin there is preserved a petition by Sophia Arnim dated 1628 where she asks to be allowed to live outside the convent. See http://archivdatenbank.landeshauptarchiv-schwerin.de/ - do a search for "Arnim" and go to result #11 (Signatur (2.12-3/2-6) 117).

[Carl-Henry Geschwind]

5 minutes ago, Per Nermo said:

The two (cousins ?) Sophia Arnim seem to have been born appr. 12 years apart (1599/1611),

as were maybe also their fathers (Elias and NN), again perhaps sons of different wives

of Cornelius Arnheim (Arnim): Catharina Frosten and Anna Rodatz, respectively ?

 

Either that, or perhaps we have Cornelius Arnheim (father) and Cornelius Arnim (son). The Cornelius Arnheim who was pastor at Eldena and died 1553/1563 seems to me too old to have had grandchildren born 1599 and 1611. And in the funeral sermons of Margaretha Arnim and Sophia Arnim (married to Petrus Tucks) the grandfather Cornelius Arnim is stated to be court preacher to Duke Ulrich (who ruled 1556-1603) and is not said to have been pastor at Eldena - so I am thinking the court preacher may have been the pastor's son (and the 1706 history that mentioned Sophia Arnim, wife of David Schützen, may have gotten the two mixed up, just as it got confused about the Duke of Alba).

[Per Nermo]

.

(Ref. Innlegg #1, 2 og 3 ovenfor).

Har man kunnet konkludere mht. hvor de hører hjemme i (de to) Tuchsen-slektene, nedenstående to personer, mao. hvem som antas å være deres foreldre ?
 

   -  Fendric   Johan Ludovic Tuchsen,                       fd. i Korskirken  1714  for Rebecca,  d. av Hans Jørgen Sinchler og Anna Hansd.   (kaptein  JLT  fd. i KK 1724)

   -                 Frideric Ludowic Tuchsen,  kaptein,    fd. i Korskirken  1723  for Abigail,     d. av Andreas Stub og Anna Maria Ottesdatter 

.

Endret Mars 19, 2019 av Per Nermo

[Per Nermo]

3 timer siden, Carl-Henry Geschwind skrev:

 

Either that, or perhaps we have Cornelius Arnheim (father) and Cornelius Arnim (son). The Cornelius Arnheim who was pastor at Eldena and died 1553/1563 seems to me too old to have had grandchildren born 1599 and 1611. And in the funeral sermons of Margaretha Arnim and Sophia Arnim (married to Petrus Tucks) the grandfather Cornelius Arnim is stated to be court preacher to Duke Ulrich (who ruled 1556-1603) and is not said to have been pastor at Eldena - so I am thinking the court preacher may have been the pastor's son (and the 1706 history that mentioned Sophia Arnim, wife of David Schützen, may have gotten the two mixed up, just as it got confused about the Duke of Alba).

 

.

As there may seem to have existed two different Cornelius Arnimb/Arnheim,

which of them is supposed to have been married to and Anna Rodatz and Catharina Frosten, respectively :

 - Corn. Arnheim (appr.1505?-1553/1563), priest in Eldenau (1542-1553/1563)  (father to below C.A. ?),  or

 - Corn. Arnimb (appr.1535?-), court preacher to Duke Ulrich of Mecklenb. (gr.father to Elias Arnimb's daughters Margar. and Sophia and their cousin Sophia m. Schütze) ?

.

Endret Mars 19, 2019 av Per Nermo

[Carl-Henry Geschwind]

2 hours ago, Per Nermo said:

As there may seem to have existed two different Cornelius Arnimb/Arnheim,

which of them is supposed to have been married to and Anna Rodatz and Catharina Frosten, respectively :

 - Corn. Arnheim (appr.1505?-1553/1563), priest in Eldenau (1542-1553/1563)  (father to below C.A. ?),  or

 - Corn. Arnimb (appr.1535?-), court preacher to Duke Ulrich of Mecklenb. (gr.father to Elias Arnimb's daughters Margar. and Sophia and their cousin Sophia m. Schütze) ?

 

Cornelius Arnheim, priest in Eldenau (1542-1553/63), was married to Anna Rodatz (this appears to be based on an altar inscription at the Eldena church that had already disappeared by around 1900, see Kunst- und Geschichtsdenkmäler des Grossherzogthums Mecklenburg-Schwerin that Arnulf linked to above; also stated in entry in Möhlmann's Geschlechter der Hansestadt Rostock concerning Catharine Arnim, wife of Johann Cothmann - I will have more to say about this below)

 

Cornelius Arnim/Arnimb, court preacher to Duke Ulrich of Mecklenburg, was married to Catharina Frosten (as stated in 1650 memorial of granddaughter Sophia Arnimb, married to Petrus Tucks)

[Carl-Henry Geschwind]

9 hours ago, Arnulf Strømsnes said:

Quelle:
Geschlechter der Hansestadt Rostock im 13.-18. Jahrhundert. Seite 82 https://books.google.es/books?id=ioxmAAAAMAAJ&q="Cornelius+Arnim"&dq="Cornelius+Arnim"&hl=no&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiIn8Kd8YvhAhUuUBUIHb7LDd0Q6AEIRzAE

 

This source is Gerd Möhlmann, Geschlechter der Hansestadt Rostock im 13.-18. Jahrhundert, published 1975. This is essentially the equivalent to Delgobes Slektstavler for Rostock, prepared by someone who spent years digging around in the Rostock city archive (like the Sollieds did in Bergen). I managed to find a physical copy of this book in a library in Washington, DC.

 

Möhlmann does not list Elias Arnim. The only relevant entry (cited above by Arnulf) can be reconstructed as follows: Johann Cothmann (professor of theology in Rostock) on 24 Nov 1626 married Catharine Arnim (born 1608, died 18 Jun 1638), who was the daughter of Mattheus Arnim, an "upright citizen" of Rostock (married to Margarete Plönnig), who in turn was the son of Cornelius Arnim, pastor in Eldenau and former instructor of the princes [duke's children] and Anna Rodatz, daughter of burgher Friedrich Rodatz of Grabow in Mecklenburg.

 

Möhlmann also does not list any ancestors to Otto Schröder, Elias Arnim's father-in-law. But he does have a lot to say about the ancestors of Otto Schröder's wife Agneta Bolten (called Bolte by Möhlmann). This ancestry can be reconstructed as follows:

 

(1) Agnete Bolte, married 1567 to Otto Schroeder, Ratmann (city councilor) in Rostock, named as his widow in 1592 [Möhlmann, p. 10, entry Bolte 2. 111 123 3]

 

Parents

(2) Lucas Bolte, named 1532, died 1546/9 [Möhlmann, p. 10, entry Bolte 2. 111 123]

(3) wife unknown

 

Grandparents

(4) Heinrich Bolte, named 1468 as a tailor [Wandschneider] in Rostock, 1487 city councilor, died 1520/26 [Möhlmann, p. 10, entry Bolte 2. 111 12]

(5) his second wife Anna Kron, gave receipt for her dowry 1501 (i.e., rough date for her marriage), named as a widow 1526, bought a brewing house 1531, died 1532/33 [Möhlmann, p. 10, entry Bolte 2. 111 12; page 92, entry Kron 14]

 

Great-grandparents

(8) Heinrich Bolte, mid-level merchant in Rostock, named 1443, died 1487/88 [Möhlmann, p. 10, entry Bolte 2. 111 1]

(9) wife unknown

(10) Heinrich Kron, burgher 1468, city councilor beginning in 1474, in 1475 buys part of a mill from his mother, mayor [Bürgermeister] beginning in 1488, died 1515/16 [Möhlmann, p. 92, entry Kron 1]

(11) his second wife Tebbeke Dunker, married before 1474 [Möhlmann, p. 92 entry Kron 1; p. 27, entry Dunker 1. 22]

 

Great-great-grandparents

(16) Arnd Bolte, named as burgher and merchant in Rostock 1439, died before 1460 [Möhlmann, p. 10, entry Bolte 2. 111]

(17) wife unknown

(20) husband unknown

(21) Anneke von Zehna, widow in 1474 [Möhlmann, p. 92, entry Kron 1; p. 187, entry v. Zehna 41]

(22) Bernhard Dunker, minor in 1424 and 1426, named 1437, 1440, 1458, 1462, named as his father's heir in 1463, died 1464 [Möhlmann, p. 27, entry Dunker 1.2]

(23) Taleke Berndes, gave receipt for her dowry 1439 [rough date of her marriage], named as widow 1465 and 1474 [Möhlmann, p. 27, entry Dunker 1.2; p. 4, entry Berndes 1]

 

3-great-grandparents

(32) Henneke Bolte, named in a testamentary receipt 20/30 Jan 1377 [Möhlmann, p. 10, entry Bolte 2. 11]

(33) wife unknown

(42) Vicko von Zehna, named 1404 as owner of his father's house, city councilor in January 1408, named as mayor of Rostock in 1401 and 1417 (deposed 1410-16 during a citizens' rebellion), in exile 1427 to 1439, died 1456/69 [Möhlmann, p. 187, entry v. Zehna 4]

(43) his first wife Taleke, married about 1404 [Möhlmann, p. 187, entry v. Zehna 4]

(44) Bernhard Dunker, burgher of Rostock 1423, named 1424 and 1436, died 1463 [Möhlmann, p. 27, entry Dunker]

(45) his first wife, name unknown

(46) Hans Berndes, named in 1440, 1457, and 1458, died before 1464 [Möhlmann, p. 4, entry Berndes]

(47) wife unkown

 

4-great-grandparents

(64) Heinrich Bolte, named in a testamentary receipt 20/30 Jan 1377 [Möhlmann, p. 10, entry Bolte 2. 1]

(65) his wife Kunne, named in a testamentary receipt 20/30 Jan 1377 [Möhlmann, p. 10, entry Bolte 2.1]

(84) Hinrich von Zehna, first recorded 1372, died 1402/04 [Möhlmann, p. 186, entry v. Zehna]

(85) Tilse, married before 1373 [Möhlmann, p. 186, entry v. Zehna]

 

5-great-grandparents

(170) husband unknown

(171) Berta, named in 1390 and 1391 when her son-in-law Hinrich von Zehna lends her money and buys her some property [Möhlmann, p. 186, entry v. Zehna]

Endret Mars 19, 2019 av Carl-Henry Geschwind

[Arnulf Strømsnes]

Thank you again Carl-Henry for new information. I am impressed by how much you have found.

[Per Nermo]

1 time siden, Carl-Henry Geschwind skrev:

 

This source is Gerd Möhlmann, Geschlechter der Hansestadt Rostock im 13.-18. Jahrhundert, published 1975. This is essentially the equivalent to Delgobes Slektstavler for Rostock, prepared by someone who spent years digging around in the Rostock city archive (like the Sollieds did in Bergen). I managed to find a physical copy of this book in a library in Washington, DC.

 

Möhlmann does not list Elias Arnim. The only relevant entry (cited above by Arnulf) can be reconstructed as follows: Johann Cothmann (professor of theology in Rostock) on 24 Nov 1626 married Catharine Arnim (born 1608, died 18 Jun 1638), who was the daughter of Mattheus Arnim, an "upright citizen" of Rostock (married to Margarete Plönnig), who in turn was the son of Cornelius Arnim, pastor in Eldenau and former instructor of the princes [duke's children] and Anna Rodatz, daughter of burgher Friedrich Rodatz of Grabow in Mecklenburg.

.....]

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Thanks a lot, Carl-Henry !

 

It may seem that Gerd Möhlmann here does the same 'error',

mistaking   Cornelius Arnheim (c1505?-1553/1563), priest in Eldenau (1542-1553/1563) (married to Anna Rodatz) for

(his son ?)  Cornelius Arnim (c1535?-), court preacher to the Duke Ulrich of Mecklenburg  (married to Catharina Frosten).

 

From a chronological assessement, in my opinion, the latter couple, rather than the first, may seem to have parented the following children :

 

- Elias Arnim (c1565?-1603), married to Margareta Schröder and father to Margareta (1595-) (m. 1615 to Martin Siller) and Sophia Arnim (1599-1650) (m. to Peter Tuchs)

- Mattheus Arnim (c1570?-), married to Margarete Plönnig, father to Catharine Arnim (1608-1638) (m. 1626 to Johann Cothmann in Rostock)

- NN Arnim (c1575?-aft.1611), father to Sophia Arnim (1611-1665) (m. appr. 1629 to David Schütze in Güstrow).

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[Arnulf Strømsnes]

Thanks to Per for the good comments.

[Per Nermo]

12 minutter siden, Arnulf Strømsnes skrev:

Thanks to Per for the good comments.

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Dette er moro !     Har du en respons på mitt innlegg #18 overnfor ?

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Endret Mars 19, 2019 av Per Nermo