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Thad Carlson

Tax lists from Aurland, Sogn og Fjordane 1711 & 1713 need indexing

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Thad Carlson

Hello,

 

Recently, the National Archives scanned and sent me the Shoe Tax (Skoskatt) of 1711 and the War Tax (Krigsskatt) of 1713 for Aurland, Sogn og Fjordane.  The Shoe Tax document is only four pages long, and the War Tax document is only six pages long.  Both documents are over 1,300 KB when optimized, so I cannot attach them to this post.  I requested these documents, as I am looking for an ancestor that was born after the 1701 census but before the local parish records started in that area.

 

I then sent an e-mail to Digitalarkivet asking them if they wanted to upload these documents to their site.  A Digitalarkivet Senior Adviser responded to me with the following suggestion:

 

However, since you are probably eager to get the documents transcribed, I would recommend that you submit an entry in our debate forums. You need to be signed in to do so, but it is easy to register and free of charge. We only ask that you use your full name in the debate. http://forum.arkivverket.no/ You find many forums here, you can among others post questions to the National Archives and the Regional State Archives, but you can also post questions to other users/genealogists in the forum called "Brukernes eget forum". Here you can discuss whatever you like as long as it is related to history or genealogy or local traditions etc. You can upload your pdf-files there and see if anyone is willing to transcribe the lists. If they like, the transcribed data can be sent to us and we can put the records in our database so the data is available for everyone.

 

So, if anyone using this forum is interested in transcribing these documents, please send me an e-mail at thad.carlson@yahoo.com 

I will gladly forward you the two census documents, as I hope we can get them indexed for others to use. 

 

Thank you for your time and consideration.

 

~ Thad Carlson, Eagan, Minnesota, USA

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Ivar S. Ertesvåg

Hello,

 

Recently, the National Archives scanned and sent me the Shoe Tax (Skoskatt) of 1711 and the War Tax (Krigsskatt) of 1713 for Aurland, Sogn og Fjordane.  The Shoe Tax document is only four pages long, and the War Tax document is only six pages long.  Both documents are over 1,300 KB when optimized, so I cannot attach them to this post.  I requested these documents, as I am looking for an ancestor that was born after the 1701 census but before the local parish records started in that area.

 

I then sent an e-mail to Digitalarkivet asking them if they wanted to upload these documents to their site.  A Digitalarkivet Senior Adviser responded to me with the following suggestion:

 

However, since you are probably eager to get the documents transcribed, I would recommend that you submit an entry in our debate forums. You need to be signed in to do so, but it is easy to register and free of charge. We only ask that you use your full name in the debate. http://forum.arkivverket.no/ You find many forums here, you can among others post questions to the National Archives and the Regional State Archives, but you can also post questions to other users/genealogists in the forum called "Brukernes eget forum". Here you can discuss whatever you like as long as it is related to history or genealogy or local traditions etc. You can upload your pdf-files there and see if anyone is willing to transcribe the lists. If they like, the transcribed data can be sent to us and we can put the records in our database so the data is available for everyone.

 

So, if anyone using this forum is interested in transcribing these documents, please send me an e-mail at thad.carlson@yahoo.com 

I will gladly forward you the two census documents, as I hope we can get them indexed for others to use. 

 

I am not working on Sogn (thus not "interested"), but I have transcribed "Skoskatten" 1711 (the main list) for Sunnmøre, and we can all see the (unofficial) link thet Grete provided.

The tax was on "shoes" (i.e. all people, except old/ill lying in bed, small children and the very poor; "small" children seems to be below approx 7-8 years) and on the salaries of servants (and on paruques, carts etc. of the rich).

For some districs, the names of all subjects are included. For some other districts, only the main person is named and the rest just counted.

 

Thee are two lists. One made by the vicar in the spring 1711 for each parish, where servants and their salaries are listed.

The Aurland list happens to be 4 pages, and is probably the document that you received.

http://arkivverket.no/URN:db_read/db/47415/304/

This list includes the names of the main person (holder of the farm), and the servants. (The form and content varies from parish to parish.)

 

The other list is made by the bailiff (fut, foged) in the fall of 1711, and is for the "fogderi". Aurland starts here: http://arkivverket.no/URN:db_read/db/47415/270/

This names the main person, and numbers of the others and the salaries.

 

Your anscestor would be 10 years or less, and hardly named in any of these lists.

 

 

I do not know the 1713 list "Krigsstyr" (or "krigsskatt") very well. The few transcriptions I have seen include the main person and the amount of tax. I have never heard about this as a notable source for information on persons and families. However, there might be local exceptions, and if there are 6 pages for Aurland alone, they must contain something.  (Or... are the 6 pages for the entire "fogderi", i.e. Ytre Sogn or Sogn?)

 

Note that a pdf file of several pages can be split into smaller, single-page files.

 

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Thad Carlson

Thank you for the link, Grete.

 

Thank you for the great information, Ivar.  I am looking for my ancestor's parents.  Since my ancestor, Knud Sjursen, was born in 1703, I suspect his father may be in these tax lists.  So far, I have only seen first names listed in the tax lists.  You are right:  I hope for local exceptions. 

 

Yes, the individual PDF pages are about 300 KB each.  This forum only allows a maximum of 500 KB to be attached to a thread post.  Thank you for this links.  I am still learning the "new" archives.  It took me several years to become familiar with the old system :)

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Ivar S. Ertesvåg

Thank you for the link, Grete.

 

Thank you for the great information, Ivar.  I am looking for my ancestor's parents.  Since my ancestor, Knud Sjursen, was born in 1703, I suspect his father may be in these tax lists.  So far, I have only seen first names listed in the tax lists.  You are right:  I hope for local exceptions. 

 

Yes, the individual PDF pages are about 300 KB each.  This forum only allows a maximum of 500 KB to be attached to a thread post.  Thank you for this links.  I am still learning the "new" archives.  It took me several years to become familiar with the old system :)

 

Do you know anything more about Knut and Sjur?  Farm name?

 

one page = 300 kB < 500 kB = one posting; six pages .... = six postings

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Grete Singstad

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Thad Carlson

Thank you, Grete.  I have been in contact with Terje Tandsether, and we are looking for the same person. 

 

Hello Ivar.  Yes, I have been searching for quite some time.  Here is what I know of Knud Sjursen (1703-1781).

 

Engaged to Ingeborg Larsdatter Fretheim in May of 1738 (I cannot read the records very well, so I could not find the exact date). Sogn og Fjordane county, Aurland, Parish register (official) nr. A 3 (1735-1761), Engagement records 1738-1740, page 168. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8611&idx_id=8611&uid =ny&idx_side=-168 

Married Ingeborg Larsdatter Fretheim on 13 Nov 1738. Sogn og Fjordane county, Aurland, Parish register (official) nr. A 3 (1735-1761), Marriage records 1738-1740, page 189. 
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8611&idx_id=8611&uid =ny&idx_side=-189 

Knud and wife Ingeborg had seven children that I could find in "Døypte i delar av Sogn og Fjordane innanfor perioden 1669-1895." 
1 - Daughter Ingeborg's baptism on 11 Aug 1739 at Fretheim 
2 - Daughter Sønneve's baptism on 30 May 1742 at Tero/Thærum 
3 - Son Lars baptism's on 27 Jun 1745 at Tero/Thærum 
4 - Son Sjur baptism's on 29 Sep 1748 at Tero/Thærum 
5 - Daughter Brita's baptism on 19 Sep 1751 at Tero/Thærum 
6 - Son Elling's baptism on 28 Nov 1754 at Tero/Thærum . See Sogn og Fjordane county, Aurland, Parish register (official) nr. A 3 (1735-1761), Birth and baptism records 1754, page 78. 
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8611&idx_id=8611&uid =ny&idx_side=-79 
7 - Daughter Kari's baptism on 14 Nov 1758 at Tero/Thærum 

 

Knud died on 01 Sep 1781 at Tero/Thærum . http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8612&idx_id=8612&uid =ny&idx_side=-86 

 

Knud had a brother named "Lasse" that was mentioned in the Ættebok for Aurland (Aurland IIA) and whom appears to have been born sometime in 1702.  Therefore, Lasse was an older brother to Knud.  There were only 13 Sivers (Sjur) in the 1701 census that could potentially be the father to Knud and Lasse.  Of those 13, four remain as good possibilities.  Here is a list of those 13 Sivers from the 1701 census:

 

#1 - Siver Andersen was age 23 at the time of the 1701 census and listed as living on the Qvamme/Kvam farm #5 in Vangen, Aurland.  While this Siver Andersen was listed in the 1701 census as living on the Qvamme/Kvam farm, he is not mentioned in the Ættebok for Aurland (Aurland IIA) as living there. If he died in Aurland parish, it may have been before indexed parish records started in 1727 (no death record found in Fylkesarkivet Sogn og Fjordane: Gravlagde i delar av Sogn og Fjordane i perioden 1669-1920), as I could not find a death/burial record for him.

 

#2 - Siver Knudsen was age 26 at the time of the 1701 census and was listed as a servant on the Weem/Viem farm #18 in Vangen, Aurland.  He was listed as a soldier and born in Aurland parish.  While this Siver Knudsen was listed in the 1701 census as living on the Weem/Viem farm, he is not mentioned in the Ættebok for Aurland (Aurland IIA) as living there. This Siver Knudsen died in 1730 and was buried on 29 July 1730 in Aurland parish (no farm name was mentioned in Fylkesarkivet Sogn og Fjordane: Gravlagde i delar av Sogn og Fjordane i perioden 1669-1920).  I believe this is the most probable candidate.

 

#3 - Siver Pedersen was age 22 at the time of the 1701 census and was listed as living on the Undredal farm #51 in Undredal, Aurland.  While this Siver Pedersen was listed in the 1701 census as living on the Underal farm, he is not mentioned in the Ættebok for Aurland (Aurland IIA) as living there. This Siver Pedersen must have died before the indexed parish records started in 1727, if he died in Sogn og Fjordane county (no death record found in Fylkesarkivet Sogn og Fjordane: Gravlagde i delar av Sogn og Fjordane i perioden 1669-1920).  Undreal is also a different part of Aurland parish; therefore, this candidate is less likely as compared to the two candidates from Vangen.

 

#4 - Siver Knudsen was age 36 at the time of the 1701 census and was listed as living on the Hylleland farm #62 in Nærøy, Aurland.  There is no mention of a Sjur or Sivert Knudsen on the Hylland farm in the Ættebok for Aurland (Aurland IIA). This Siver Knudsen must have died before indexed burial records started in 1727, if he died in Sogn og Fjordane county (no death record found in Fylkesarkivet Sogn og Fjordane: Gravlagde i delar av Sogn og Fjordane i perioden 1669-1920). Undreal is also a different part of Aurland parish; therefore, this candidate is less likely as compared to the two candidates from Vangen.

 

UNLIKELY – #5, Siver Erichsen was age 15 at the time of the 1701 census and was listed as living on the Bache farm #65 in Nærøy, Aurland.  There is no mention of a Sjur or Sivert Erichsen on the Bache/Bakke/Bakka farm in the Ættebok for Aurland (Aurland IIA).  No death record for this person could be found in Fylkesarkivet Sogn og Fjordane: Gravlagde i delar av Sogn og Fjordane i perioden 1669-1920.  No marriage record could be found for this person at Fylkesarkivet Sogn og Fjordane: Vigde i delar av Sogn og Fjordane i perioden 1669-1922. Nærøy was too far away for this to be a strong candidate.

 

UNLIKELY - #6, Siver Larsen was age 15 at the time of the 1701 census and was listed as living on the Gudvangen farm #64 in Nærøy, Aurland.  This Sjur Larsen was son of Lars Botolvsen from Undrdal.  He was born in 1685.  It says he participated from 1709 in the "store nordiake krigen" or the Great Northern War and he probably never came home. He is unlikely the right guy because he could not have had Knud's brother Peder in 1712. This Siver Larsen must have died before indexed burial records started in 1727, if he died in Sogn og Fjordane county (no death record found in Fylkesarkivet Sogn og Fjordane: Gravlagde i delar av Sogn og Fjordane i perioden 1669-1920).

 

UNLIKELY - #7, Siver Endresen, age 46 in 1701, Gjesme/Geisme farm #42 in Flåm, Aurland.  There is a "Siur/ Siver Einarsen" listed on this farm in the Ættebok for Aurland (Aurland IIA), but no son named "Knud" is mentioned.

 

UNLIKELY - #8, Siver Siversen, age 35 in 1701, Tunshele/Tunshelle farm #44 in Flåm, Aurland.  There is a "Siur Siursen" listed on this farm in the Ættebok for Aurland (Aurland IIA), but no son named "Knud" is mentioned.

 

UNLIKELY - #9, Siver Arnesen, age 36 in 1701, Diurdahl/Dyrdal farm #67 in Nærøy, Aurland.  This Siver Arnesen is listed in the Ættebok for Aurland (Aurland IIA) living on the "Flåm" farm nr.38, but no son named "Knud" is mentioned.

 

NO - #10, Siver Torbensen, age 35 in 1701, Skaim/Skahjem/Skeim farm #13 in Vangen, Aurland.  Was the father of an alternate Lasse Sjursen also born in 1702 (who married Ingeborg Rognaldsdatter in 1728 and was born on Skaaiem).  Sjur Torbjørnsen appears in the Ættebok for Aurland (Aurland IIA) living on the Skaim farm.  It says he first married a woman named Torbjor, but it looks like she passed away in 1725. It didn't give her last name or date of birth.  2nd wife looks like Mette Gjertsatter, and they married in 1725. After the death of Sjur in 1737, Mette then married a guy named Erik Torrissen in 1739.  Here are Sjur's children as mentioned: Agate (1685 - 1773), Torald (1698 - 1760), Lasse (1702 - ), Torbjorn (1703 - ), Ingeborg (1710 - 1717), Gjert (1726 - 1726), Torbjorg (1729 - 1730), Gjert (1731 - 1731), Torbjor (1732 - 1732), Sjur (1740 - 1742), Sjur (1744 - ), and Malene (1751 - ).  This is definitely not the right candidate, because he had no son “Knud.”  The Ættebok for Aurland (Aurland IIA) specifically mentioned that Knud and Lasse were brothers.

 

NO - #11, Siver Tostensen, age 63 in 1701, Weem/Veim/Veum  farm #18 in Vangen, Aurland.  Died in 1710; no children were mentioned in his probate.

 

NO - #12, Siver Elendsen, age 45 in 1701, Bache/Bakke/Bakka farm #65 in Nærøy, Aurland.  Died in 1719; his probate only mentions his wife and their two daughters: Ingeborg and Groe.

 

NO - #13, Siver Larsen, age 46 in 1701, Indreli/Indrelid farm #39 in Flåm, Aurland.  Died in 1704, his probate says he had only two daughters - Elli (3 y.o.) and Gjertru(d) (1 y.o.).

 

So, I am now looking at tax lists for clues.  I know the military records may have some information, but I cannot travel to Norway any time soon to search through those records. 

 

Thank you for your time and consideration.  All the best, 

 

 

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Grete Singstad

Maybe the godparents can give some clues:

 

Ingebor, døpt 11. aug. 1739. Faddere (godparents): Lasse Ly, Hans Larsen, Gurj Frettem, Chirstin Nielsdatter, Kari Larsdatter.

 

Sønneve, døpt 30. mai 1742. Faddere: Siur Tærum, Peder Siursen, Agaata Simensdatter, Torgis Tærums kvinne (wife), Sønneve Endresdatter.

 

Lars, døpt 27. juni 1745 (2. søndag etter Trinitatis). Faddere: Torben Schaiem, Joen Tærum, Peder Vangen, Mette Tærum, Tora Siursdatter.

 

Siur, døpt 29. sept. 1748 (St. Mickels dag). Faddere: Joen Sult, Lasse Tærum, Ole Olsen, Torgier Tærums kvinne (wife), Chirsti Qvitt.

 

Brita, døpt 19. sept. 1751 (15. søndag etter Trinitatis). Faddere: Lars Stegen, Christen Klocker, Else Sifversdatter, Marite Schirdale, Ane Larsdatter.

 

Elling, døpt 28. nov. 1754. Faddere: Knud Larsen, Ole Jacobsen, Prestens dreng ved navn Niels, Jomfru Gelmyden, Knud Corporals kvinne (wife).

 

Kari, døpt 14. nov 1758. Faddere: Stefling Lem, Iver Torgeirsen Tærum, Eiler Bremers, Ingebor Erichdatter Tæro, Inga Torgeirsdatter Tærum.

Endret av Grete Singstad

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Ivar S. Ertesvåg

 

Hello Ivar.  Yes, I have been searching for quite some time.  Here is what I know of Knud Sjursen (1703-1781).

 

Engaged to Ingeborg Larsdatter Fretheim in May of 1738 (I cannot read the records very well, so I could not find the exact date). Sogn og Fjordane county, Aurland, Parish register (official) nr. A 3 (1735-1761), Engagement records 1738-1740, page 168. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8611&idx_id=8611&uid =ny&idx_side=-168 

 

Married Ingeborg Larsdatter Fretheim on 13 Nov 1738. Sogn og Fjordane county, Aurland, Parish register (official) nr. A 3 (1735-1761), Marriage records 1738-1740, page 189. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8611&idx_id=8611&uid =ny&idx_side=-189 

 

Knud had a brother named "Lasse" that was mentioned in the Ættebok for Aurland (Aurland IIA) and whom appears to have been born sometime in 1702.  Therefore, Lasse was an older brother to Knud.  There were only 13 Sivers (Sjur) in the 1701 census that could potentially be the father to Knud and Lasse.  Of those 13, four remain as good possibilities.  Here is a list of those 13 Sivers from the 1701 census:

 

#1 -

 

The engagement was on "20de Søndag efter Trinitatis" (20th Sunday after Trinity; which in 1738 was on 19 October)

Knut was "buried" on 1 Sept; this probably means the graveside ceremony, since the ministerial book is a registry of the vicar's officical acts.

(the physical burial might have been before, should be a few days after dath)

 

All these 13 Sivert/Sjur are from Aurland. What are the indications that Knut was from Aurland?

He is mentioned without farm name both in the  engagement and the marriage, contrary to Ingeborg. Moreover, both best men were from Fretheim.

 

What is the source for the kinship to Lasse?

 

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Grete Singstad

Maybe this one?

 

Skifte på gården Qvarme på Voss 29. jan. 1720 etter Siur Larsøn. Enken var Britte Brynilsdatter og barna:

Baar Siursøn 22 år

Knud Siursøn 17 år

 

Hordaland fylke, Hardanger og Voss sorenskriveri, Skifteprotokoll Ac 3 , 1718-1721

 

Edit:

Probably not:

 

Gravlagt 2. mars 1774 Knud Sieursen nedre Qvarme, 72 år, 18 uker og 3 dager gammel.

 

Hordaland fylke, Voss, Ministerialbok nr. A 8 (1752-1780), Dagregister 1774, side 434-435.

 

 

But Voss or Hardanger could be the place for further exploration.

Endret av Grete Singstad

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Thad Carlson

Thank  you for the list of godparents for the children of Knud Sjursen, Grete.  I am not able to read the writing very well, but I did notice that Knud's brother Lasse was mentioned at his first child's baptism.  Likewise, Knud attended the baptisms of a couple of Lasse's children.

 

Ivar - Lasse was mentioned in the Ættebok for Aurland (Aurland IIA).  In that book and on the page for Tero, at the bottom of the listing for Knut Sjursen, it says "Knut var truleg bror til Li 60."  Since Lasse was born in 1702, supposedly in Aurland, I assumed that the father of Kund and Lasse would be in Aurland at the time of the 1701 census.  I know that is not 100% certain, but that is my best guess so far. 

 

Concerning Knud's brother Lasse,

 

28 Nov 1728 marriage to Ingeri Olsdatter http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8609&idx_id=8609&uid=ny&idx_side=-57 

23 Jan 1729 baptism of daughter Ingeborg

30 Sep 1731 baptism of daughter Gjøri.

15 Oct 1737 purchased property http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:tl_read?idx_id=12442&uid=ny&idx_side=-21

29 Oct 1759 marriage to Randi Larsdatter  http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8611&idx_id=8611&uid=ny&idx_side=-199

02 Oct 1760 baptism of daughter Ingerid

23 Sep 1762 Extra Tax. Lasse is listed as a "self owner" of one of the four farm units at Ytre Lie.

23 Nov 1767 marriage to Inga Torgjersdatter http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8612&idx_id=8612&uid=ny&idx_side=-221

07 Dec 1771 baptism of son Siver

02 Feb 1775 baptism of daughter Randi

20 May 1784 burial 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ivar S. Ertesvåg

The traces and links seems quite weak....

 

The baptism of Gøri Lassedr. 1729 is here: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8609&idx_id=8609&uid=ny&idx_side=-72

The 2nd withness is "Knud Siursøn". You have already found that Knud and Sjur/Siver are frequently used names. I do not see any indication that this is the Knut later living at Terum.

 

The Ingeborg baptized 11.aug 1739 http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8611&idx_id=8611&uid=ny&idx_side=-24

is a daughter of "Knud Siursøn" (no farm name mentioned). The only indication that this is "your" Knut, is the third withness "Guri Fretem" (your Knut's wife came from Fretem).

The 1st withness is "Lasse Lij"; Lars/Lasse was a frequent name and there are (at least) two Li farms (indre, ytre; also Audli) in Aurland.

 

At Lasse's marriage, the farm name is obscured by ink/dirt and hard to read. The first and last character can be read "U....d"

At the engagement (2nd sunday after easter), the farm names are left out: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8609&idx_id=8609&uid=ny&idx_side=-54

 

Even if... the Knut and Lasse in all these records those that you think/hope, they do not show any kinship.

 

If these records are the only links betwen Knut Terum and Lasse Li, there is, strictly, no link at all.
 

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Thad Carlson

Thank you for your insights, Ivar.  I am relying on the information presented in Ættebok for Aurland (Aurland IIA).  I have a copy of this book, and can see where it says that Knud and Lasse are brothers.  Likewise, this same book lists the children and birth years for Knud and Ingebog.


Here is a photo of the page in Ættebok for Aurland (Aurland IIA) that lists Lasse living on Li (LIE), gardsnummer 31. 

 

 


Here is the title page for the book ...

post-6067-0-59377600-1447009782_thumb.jpg

post-6067-0-14634700-1447009981_thumb.jpg

post-6067-0-34260600-1447010083_thumb.jpg

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Ivar S. Ertesvåg

Not even the "Ættebok" says that Knut and Lasse were brothers. 

 

It says that "Knut var truleg bror til Li 60 [Lasse]".

This means that the author thinks it can be believed to be so, but that he/she has no clear indication.

 

In this context (genealogy) belief can be quite speculative.... 

If there is no other indications than those brought forth in this and other threads, it is less likely that they were brothers than not.

 

One detail: The Ættebok says that Lasse came from Ytre Li. At the marriage, the initial of the farm name is a U. 

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Thad Carlson

Thank you, Ivar.  Others have given me a different translation of that phrase form the Ættebok.  It really helps me to have the correct information, as you have provided.  

 

It is unfortunate that Lasse's only male child did not survive.  That eliminates the possibility for a Y-DNA test for one of his descendants. I am not sure I could find a clean relationship connection through an autosomal DNA test. 

 

This is why I hoped to find something in the tax lists.  There is one more tax list from 1730 that I hope to find soon - the "brannskatt."  Otherwise, I hope the military records are scanned soon.

 

Thanks again for your help!

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Grete Singstad

Sorry, jeg må skrive dette på norsk, min engelsk strekker ikke til. Jeg har studert fadderne og mye tyder på at Knut ikke var fra Aurland. Jeg tror hans opphav må søkes andre steder. At man ikke har klart å finne hans opphav før tror jeg beror på at man ikke har tatt dette innover seg. Jeg anbefaler derfor at man kaster et blikk på Voss og Hardanger. Her er det mange ved navn Siur, og kanskje kom han nettopp herfra.

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Thad Carlson

Wow!  Thank you, Grete!  This is the first time I have heard someone state they believe he was not from Aurland.  I will search in Voss  and Hardanger (Hordaland) as you suggest. 

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