Help with 17th C record, possibly Stavern.

[Mel S]

Hello

 

I'm sorry but not being able to read Norwegian, I am posting here in the hope that someone can direct this to the correct sub-forum.

 

I have looked around some of the online sources I could find (starting from this advice https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Stavern,_Vestfold,_Norway_Genealogy)including paging through some Delgobe Collection pages, but none of them seems to give any useful or definitive information. These ones come closest:

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/43518/435

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/43518/437

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/43518/440   and pages forward from this one;

but the dates seem a bit too recent and the scribbles hard to decipher.

 

The person I am seeking was recorded somewhere else as having been "from Stavern". His name may have been Lambert, Lammert, Lambert, Lambreght, etc., and was son of a similar name, hence referred to in Dutch records as Lammert Lammertsz. or Lambert Lambertus, etc. If he was indeed of Norwegian origin, he went to the Netherlands sometime in the early to mid- 17th century, worked for the VOC (Dutch East India Company), married a Dutch woman and had a son baptised at Buiksloot (just north of Amsterdam). His estimated birth date is 1638, but this could be wrong. He was married by 1664.

 

I'm hoping that someone can help or has some suggestions about finding further information.

 

[Even Stormoen]

Well, Delgobe is ‹a hard one› to decipher, I’ll give it a try though:

 

1st «Seddel»:

Philippus «Lamers»
fra (from) Christianopel 

[Village in Sweden – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristianopel and http://www.visitkarlskrona.se/en/kristianopels-history ]

m[ed] sønnen(?) [w(ith) the son] i Bg bg NK 27/2 1695 Sk 8/3 

[this is referring to the church «Nykirken» (NK) in the city of Bergen (Bg). I am at loss concerning the «Sk»]

Unfortunately I can’t find church records / baptisms for Nykirken 1695.

 

(Borg 30/3 1675)

[Probably referring to when he got his ‹citizenship› in Bergen]

* Janniche Pedersd.
NK 20/11 1670

[Date of marriage. And finally I got lucky. The marriage record is there: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070323640457 (second entry, top right pg. 75) It says that Philippus Lammers, Master Carpenter married Janniche Pedersdatter on the 20. of November 1670. ]

 

Anna Echof [name] 

 

[no date, second marriage?, a cross(?) and «indn. Slutn. af Md. Bo.» – before the end of ??? – at loss again. Dead before . . . something?]

 

[Then his children and descendants]:

 

Philip
bg NK 26/4 1719

[a Sea Captain (Skipper) Philip Lammers was buried on that date – https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070416620100 first entry top right pg 185]

 

and so on . . .  well I have not gone into futher details concerning the other notes on the «seddel», but all dates seems to refer to Bergen and Nykirken. And nowhere figures the name Lammert/Lambert/Lambrecht as a first name.

2d. «Seddel»:

 

Lambrechts

Jørgen Lamprecht
var 1666
bogtrykker i Kbhn

[JL was 1666 (a) book printer in Copenhagen]

Wolfgang
Kgl Bogbinder 1673
afg. før 1691

[W Royal Bookbinder 1673, retired bef. 1691]

[And then his sons and descendants, all connected to Denmark, and no first name Lambert (or variants)]

 

3d. «Seddel»:

 

with a veeery ‹shaggy› translation, line by line.

 

Familien Lammers Genealogi
Genealogi of the Lammers Family
Dette arbeide inddeles i to Afsnit, der
This work is divided into two parts which
behandler henholdsvis en gammel i Eker
concerns repectively an old in Eker
bosiddende Slægt, og dernest en norsk-
residing family, and secondly a norwegian-
dansk Militærslægt – de nuværende Lammers –
danish miltary family – the current Lammers –
som paa Grund af Lighed i Fornavnene
who because of similarities in their first names
tør antages at nedstamme fra Eker-
can be assumed to decend from the Eker-
Slægten.
family line.
Slægten Lammers i Eker og paa Kongsberg
The Lammers family in E and in K
____________

Stamfaderen synes at have været en
The ‹first ancestor› seems to have been a
Gevert Lambertsen (Lammert)
GL
hvis Efterkommere, delvis har kaldt sig med
who’s descendants, partially have called themselves by
Fadersnavn, delvis med Lammert eller Lammerts
Patronymicon, partially by Lammert or Lammerts
(Lammertz) som Slægtsnavn
(Lammertz) as a family name
Geverts Søn blev Militær i Eker –
Geverts son became a military man in Eker –
og hed Levin Gevertsen Lammert i(?) Dynge
and his name was Levin Gevertsen Lammert in(?) Dynge
salmager senere corporal
saddler, later corporal [not clear whether it's a strikethrough or underlining the text above]
han trolovedes i Eker Trinitatis dagen (22/5 1692)
he was engaged in Eker Trinitatis Day (22/5 1692)
med Sara Pedersdatter.
with Sara Pedersdatter.
Med hende synes han at have havt mange
With her he seems to have had many
Børn, der optræder under forskjellige Navne:
children, appearing under different names:
1 Dorothea d 17 des(?) 1692
2 Gevert Levinsen – kom til Kongsberg
d 4. S i Adv. 1693
    GL – came to Kongsberg  . . . 1693
hvor man finder flere, der maa høre til hans
where one finds several who must be his
Børn, saasom
children, such as
a) et Barn begr. paa Kongsberg 1/7 1730
    one child buried at K
b) en datter Anne Marie bg stds 12/1 1743, 21 Aar gl
    one daughter AM buried same place . .  age 21
c) Sara Gevertsdatter Levinsen bg 4/5 1771 (47 aar gl.)
    SGL buried  . . .(age 47)
g.m. Lars Olsen Hasle, eller Veungsdalen.
married to LOH or V.

 

I have skimmed through the following «sedler», but cannot find a hint at some Lammert going to Holland. They all seems to have lived in Denmark and/or Norway. «Denmark» including the now German then danish territory Schleswig-Holstein. (Some references to Rendsburg and Glücksburg.)

 

Wish I could have said «hope this helps», but unfortunately it appears not to.

 

All the best

 

 

Endret September 25, 2017 av Even Stormoen

[Mel S]

Wow, thanks so much for all of that, Even - fabulously interesting, even if it doesn't lead me to my ancestor. (One of the things I love about genealogy - it leads to learn so much about other places and times!).

 

Yes, unfortunately all of those are a little later, and not connected to Stavern.

 

I started to have a look at the Lassens Collection, but I couldn't make any sense of it at all, so gave up.

 

I might try getting to my local LDS Family History Centre and see if they can show me the microfiche of the probate records they show they have for Larvik (from 1666), but I think they are probably a bit late anyway (although may show Lambert Lambertsen's father, perhaps). Unfortunately there are no church records from the early 17th C from Stavern left.

 

One of the FamilySearch probate links to this: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/redirect?to=sk_read/search/

- but I can't work out how to do anything with those or if they'd be of any help anyway.

 

Thanks again for your help, anyway. I knew it wasn't going to be easy, or possible at all, to find any definitive records from so long ago!

[Jon Erik Berg-Hansen]

Digitized probate records for Larvik

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/search/9/100034?forenamn=&etternamn=Lam*&gard=&kjonn=&alder=&fodselsaar=&dodsaar=&skiftedato=&stilling_stand=&bustad=&heimstavn=&skipreide=&tinglag=&sokn=&prgjeld=&rolle=&relasjon=&etnisitet=&aar=

 

Much too late to be of any use for solving your specific problem, but they migth be descendants of "your man?"

 

 

Searching Digitalarkivet - you could use this:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/search/persons/advanced

Endret September 26, 2017 av Jon Erik Berg-Hansen

[Mel S]

Oh, thanks very much, Jon. That is all useful information. I have just started playing around with the Advanced Search, and it's found quite a lot of Lammers.

 

Can you just tell me, please, how Larvik (or Stavern) relates to the Geography parameter? The FamilySearch page tells me that it's part of Vestfold county - but is that part of Vestlandet?

[Jon Erik Berg-Hansen]

https://www.google.no/maps/place/3290+Stavern/@59.2446997,9.4725295,8.75z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x4646e953fd73e957:0x9e70ace5c4afd429!8m2!3d58.9982871!4d10.0355945?dcr=0

 

Zoom out - and you'll find that Stavern is situated about 150km's south of Oslo.

Definitely not Vestlandet - on the contrary: Østlandet.

 

Stavern - previously Fredriksvern - now part of Larvik kommune.

[Mel S]

Thanks for that, Jon. I had found it on the map but couldn't relate it to the list of areas shown on the Advanced Search. Now that I look under Østlandet, I see Vestland and Stavern on the list.

 

Having now searched fairly extensively on the whole of Norway, 1600-1750 (excellent search, quick and useful results and ability to sort!), I see that there were many variations on Lammert/Lambert/Lammers/Lambertz/Lambertsen, etc., spread across the country - mostly later, but there are some 17th C ones.

 

Something I noticed was that a couple had origins in Germany (a couple specifically around Bremen), and I read somewhere recently that there was quite a lot of movement by sea from and to Germany, Norway and the Netherlands at that time. I then searched on records (FamilySearch and Ancestry) and found quite a few variations on the same name. So perhaps the name originated in Germany?

 

Anyway, I will come back to this later (it's dinnertime in Australia!) and also look at the Dutch records again later to see if there's any sign of him in Lutheran church records. Thanks again for all of your help - much appreciated! :-)

 

 

[Stian Høiset]

"Lammers" is quite certainly an immigrant's surname. That may not help you much, though. Quite a lot of the educated Norwegian middle class has been of Northern European heritage. Danish, mostly.

[Mel S]

Thanks, Stian. That's useful to know anyway.