Tyding av "emigrantdokument" - Amerika 1913

[Trude Nilsen]

Jon Jonsen Brække (også som John Johnsen Brekke) emigrerte til Amerika i 1913. Hans far het Jon Andersen Brække (også som John Brekke)

 

Klarer noen tyde hva det står på linjen under father John Brekke? Og hva er den "krusedullen" foran navnet?

 

 

Originalen finnes her:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99DS-H9SP-V?i=476&cc=2185163

[Leif B. Mathiesen]

Ikke riktig svar men  :)

Dette er vel denne Joh. Johnsen Brekke som emigrerer fra Kristiania

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/8/pe00000001136434

 

FT1910

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01036392005163

 

Og kanskje denne FT1900

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01037045213397

 

Og denne dåpen i Sagene Sogn i 1896. Nr.46  

Oslo fylke, Sagene i Oslo, Ministerialbok nr. 4 (1894-1904), Fødte og døpte 1896, Side 58
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060213070764
 

Kanskje tegnet foran farens navn i  emigrantlisten betydde at han var død.

Endret Mai 29, 2018 av Leif B. Mathiesen

[Trude Nilsen]

Takk for tilbakemelding, men jeg har alle "lenkene" fra før.

 

På 29.5.2018 den 20.07, Leif B. Mathiesen skrev:

Kanskje tegnet foran farens navn i  emigrantlisten betydde at han var død.

Har vært inne på den tanken, for faren var død på det tidspunktet. Men får ikke noe fornuftig ut av "krusedullen". 

[Egil Johannessen]

Jeg tror det er et dårlig forsøk på å skrive Lier. Hvis du ser på personen under som sikkert skal være Ragna (Martins.) Bakken (feilregistret som mann) - hun reiste på samme dato - utreisen hennes her - https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/8/pe00000001136456

 

I kolonnen siste kjente adresse er det strøket over det samme (Lier) og fylt inn Christiania - og så har man ikke (giddet) å endre under navnet til faren.

 

Krusedullen kan jeg ikke forklare, men vi får håpe noen kan.....😉 

[Trude Nilsen]

7 minutter siden, Egil Johannessen skrev:

Jeg tror det er et dårlig forsøk på å skrive Lier.

Hmmm... Lier gir liksom ingen mening. Faren var opprinnelig fra Lunder i Norderhov. Flyttet tidlig til Kristiania. Han giftet seg, og fikk barn der. Han døde i 1900 i Kristiania. 

[Egil Johannessen]

3 minutter siden, Trude Nilsen skrev:

Hmmm... Lier gir liksom ingen mening. Faren var opprinnelig fra Lunder i Norderhov. Flyttet tidlig til Kristiania. Han giftet seg, og fikk barn der. Han døde i 1900 i Kristiania. 

 

16 minutter siden, Egil Johannessen skrev:

I kolonnen siste kjente adresse er det strøket over det samme (Lier) og fylt inn Christiania - og så har man ikke (giddet) å endre under navnet til faren.

 

Jeg tror man har gjort feil på pass. listen for hans del - altså; det er skrevet Lier både på siste kjente oppholdsted og under farens navn - man har endret ett sted men ikke det andre.....skjønner? 

Endret Mai 30, 2018 av Egil Johannessen

[Egil Johannessen]

På 28.5.2018 den 18.59, Trude Nilsen skrev:

Originalen finnes her:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99DS-H9SP-V?i=476&cc=2185163

 

Så må du også bla til neste side  - der står det at han skal til søster, Mrs. E Mitchell, 435 Springfield Ave, Chicago, IL

Endret Mai 31, 2018 av Egil Johannessen

[Egil Johannessen]

Til neste gang; legg inn lenke til tråder som omhandler samme tema (her; din tråd om Jon Jonsen Brekke) så slipper gode hjelpere som Leif å gjøre dobbeltarbeid 😉

 

 

Endret Mai 30, 2018 av Egil Johannessen

[Egil Johannessen]

Det samme gjelder for tråden (Jon Jonsen Brekke) - legg inn lenke til denne forespørselen på tydeforumet..... (jeg har gjort det for deg denne gang 😊)

[Egil Johannessen]

1 time siden, Egil Johannessen skrev:

Så må du også bla til neste side  - der står det at han skal til søster, Mrs. E Mitchell, 435 Springfield Ave, Chicago, IL

 

Jeg har lagt inn ny post vedrørende søsteren - Martha Olava Brekke - i din tråd om Jon Jonsen Brekke.

Endret Mai 31, 2018 av Egil Johannessen

[Trude Nilsen]

Tusen takk for ALL hjelp. 👍

[Linda Reiersgard]

Hi Trude,

 Lier/Liers  is  likely the farm where John Brekke (the father) lived, and there are many Lier farms in Norway, four of them in Kristians Amt (amt might be an old word).  The US immigration official in Vermont crossed our Lier as the town, because it was a farm and not a town, or he misread John's documents, and wrote Christiania as  the last residence of young John Brekke.   Maybe the father's first name "J" is slip of the pen of the immigration official.   John's origins can probably be traced at Lier farm, if you can find the county or parish for Lier.    I do not know if you are tracing back or forward, his  Norway history or his  US records.   Maybe you have found the Lier records already. 

 

[Carl-Henry Geschwind]

Hi Trude:

 

I would agree with Linda that the weird penstroke ("krusedulle") before the father's name is not a cross, but rather an "I" or "J". If you go up three names in the list, you will see a "Sister: Ingeborg Peterson", and the "I" in "Ingeborg" looks very similar to the penstroke before the John Brekke. So perhaps the official had heard the father's name as "J. John Brekke".

 

It is definitely weird that our emigrant Jon Brekke gave the name of his dead father as "name and address of closest relative or friend in country whence alien came from" - perhaps emigrant Jon Brekke did not understand the question correctly.

 

As for the "Lier" - that was the place the next person in the list (Ragna Bakken) came from (see the Norwegian emigration document linked by Egil in #4). The official on the ship taking the list must have assumed that they were traveling together and both of them came from Lier - then corrected to say that John Brekke last lived in Christiana, but did not correct the address for John's father.

 

 

[Egil Johannessen]

2 minutter siden, Carl-Henry Geschwind skrev:

It is definitely weird that our emigrant Jon Brekke gave the name of his dead father as "name and address of closest relative or friend in country whence alien came from" - perhaps emigrant Jon Brekke did not understand the question correctly.

 

As for the "Lier" - that was the place the next person in the list (Ragna Bakken) came from (see the Norwegian emigration document linked by Egil in #4). The official on the ship taking the list must have assumed that they were traveling together and both of them came from Lier - then corrected to say that John Brekke last lived in Christiana, but did not correct the address for John's father.

 

I completely agree, Carl-Henry 😊

 

One thing is certain, neither John Brekke (the son) nor John Andersen Brekke (his father) had any connection to Lier.

[Trude Nilsen]

På 31.5.2018 den 20.58, Linda Reiersgard skrev:

 Lier/Liers  is  likely the farm where John Brekke (the father) lived,

That is not correct. They lived at the farm called "Brække". Sometimes called "Brækka". I live in the neighborhood today.

 

Endret Juni 3, 2018 av Trude Nilsen

[Trude Nilsen]

På 1.6.2018 den 16.56, Carl-Henry Geschwind skrev:

So perhaps the official had heard the father's name as "J. John Brekke".

Most likely. 

Endret Juni 3, 2018 av Trude Nilsen

[Trude Nilsen]

På 1.6.2018 den 16.56, Carl-Henry Geschwind skrev:

It is definitely weird that our emigrant Jon Brekke gave the name of his dead father as "name and address of closest relative or friend in country whence alien came from" - perhaps emigrant Jon Brekke did not understand the question correctly.

That is my thought too. Thank you. 😊

[Linda Reiersgard]

Trude,

About John Brekke's time in the United States, did you notice on his 1917 draft registration card that his occupation was "Sailor (laborer)" and he gave the name of his employer:  the "Lake Seamen's Union," in Milwaukee, Wisconsin (which is on the shore of Lake Michigan).  His address at the time of the draft registration (June) was in Madison, Wisconsin, and "where employed" was a notation that he was looking for another job, in Madison.

If he is the John Brekke in the news articles about death in the War, he had quickly found a new job in Madison in the summer of 1917 and earned a fine reputation at the Conservation Commission in that short time before he was called up for military duty. 

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G189-99NZ?i=193&cc=1968530

   

 

 

Endret Juni 4, 2018 av Linda Reiersgard
Milwaukee

[Egil Johannessen]

9 timer siden, Linda Reiersgard skrev:

If he is the John Brekke in the news articles about death in the War, he had quickly found a new job in Madison in the summer of 1917 and earned a fine reputation at the Conservation Commission in that short time before he was called up for military duty. 

 

He is indeed !!

 

The Capital Times (Madison, Wisconsin) 20 Aug 1918, Tuesday, Page 8

 

Wisconsin State Journal (Madison, Wisconsin) 16 Dec 1917, Sunday, Page 13

Endret Juni 4, 2018 av Egil Johannessen

[Trude Nilsen]

Tusen takk til deg igjen Egil J. Jeg er utrolig takknemlig for at du finner disse avisutklippene til meg. 

[Egil Johannessen]

1 minutt siden, Trude Nilsen skrev:

Tusen takk til deg igjen Egil J. Jeg er utrolig takknemlig for at du finner disse avisutklippene til meg. 

 

Takk for fin tilbakemelding, Trude - bare hyggelig å kunne hjelpe deg ☺️

[Linda Reiersgard]

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/immigration/immigration-records/passenger-lists/passenger-lists-1865-1922/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=6287&

Here is the Canadian record of John Brekke's arrival at the port of Quebec on the ship Empress of Ireland from England on July 18, 1913.   John Brekken's name is on the first line on image 53, (page 31 of the manifest).

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/immigration/immigration-records/passenger-lists/passenger-lists-1865-1922/Pages/image.aspx?Image=e003590486&URLjpg=http%3a%2f%2fcentral.bac-lac.gc.ca%2f.item%2f%3fid%3de003590486%26op%3dimg%26app%3dpassengerlist&Ecopy=e003590486

"Ragnor Bakken," the "Lier" passenger, is near the bottom of image 52, page 30.  

Page 1 of the manifest shows that there  were 1,404 passengers on board the ship.   The ship arrived at Quebec at 0715 hours on  and "landed" at 0800.   The medical examinations of the passengers were finished at 1200.   The last section of this page shows that at "3 P.M." (1500) the "C.P.R." (Canadian Pacific Railroad) passengers who were going to the U.S. boarded a "special train" which took them from Quebec to the US border and onward to St. Albans, Vermont.   The train trip today takes about 7 hours. 

The passengers on the special train are listed in the "krusedullen" document with the many mistakes.

[Trude Nilsen]

Thank you Linda R.