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Emma Hall

Louis Thompson, born 1850 in Fredrikshald

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Emma Hall

If Ole isn't Louis but is in England as per the record previously provided (https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/41967/170)

 

What would be a likely translation of Ole if he was going to change his name? I could perhaps look to see if a variant of his name appears in a UK record? Or have you all tried that and he's not in England under a similar name?

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Carl-Henry Geschwind
5 minutes ago, Emma Hall said:

Happy to go through some church books but not sure where to start or what would be helpful?

 

We have three of the six children pinned down. Don't know where Hans Martin went after 1860 or Sophie after 1867 (did she leave for Oslo/Christiania to become a serving girl?). One place to look is in the churchbooks under the category "out-migrants" ("utflyttede" in Norwegian). For 1860 this begins at https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060329040439, right-hand side, bottom of the page (and on right-hand side in succeeding pages). Hand-writing is somewhat iffy, but can you find a Hans Martin Hansen (which seems to have been the family name used by this family - they had already gone away from using patronyms in the 1865 census) here?

 

That first churchbook goes through 1865. For the utflyttede after 1865, the next churchbook is here: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060928030566 (again, the utflyttede are on the right-hand side). Can Sophie Hansen be found here after 1867?

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Carl-Henry Geschwind
8 minutes ago, Emma Hall said:

What would be a likely translation of Ole if he was going to change his name?

 

My experience has been that Ole usually stayed Ole - but that was in America, where Ole (being the most common Norwegian name) was a relatively accepted name. I have no idea what the practice for Norwegian immigrants in England would have been - are Olaf or Olav still regularly used in northeast England? Other than that, any name with an O and an L sound in it - which of course leads me to think that Louie is a good alternate.

 

I don't think we have actually looked for straight-up "Ole Hansen" born ca. 1850 in Norway in English records yet.

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Per H Skaug
Posted (edited)

Here is Hans Martin Hansens burial record in1861, at 15 3/4 years, born 22 Oct 1845, son of Watchmaker Hansen. It is record no. 50 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7421/81680/30

 

In other words, of the 6 children we know was born to Peter and Oline, at least 2 have passed away before Oline died in 1881. There may of course have been others born that we have not yet identified, but at this stage we know of 3 (Ole, maybe aka Louis T, Ludvig, aka Louis H, and Bolette Randi) that was alie in 1881. It appears that Sophie would then also be alive.

 

Could it be worthwile looking for a Sophie Hansen in England? If the rest of her family went to sea or married seafarers, it may not be unreasonable to think that Sophie did the same?

Edited by Per H Skaug

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Carl-Henry Geschwind
1 minute ago, Per H Skaug said:

Here is Hans Martin Hansens burial record in1861

 

Beautiful! So, since Hans Martin died in 1861 and Jørgine in 1859, the four children of Oline Hansen still alive in 1881 must have been Bolette (who died 1888), Ludvig (who died 1937), Ole (who was in England in 1878 and possibly our Louie Thompson, who died in 1902), and Sophie (who may have been a servant in Oslo in 1875).

 

We know Ludvig had children in England, and Bolette had no children. Don't know yet about Sophie.

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Emma Hall

Thank you - d

12 minutes ago, Per H Skaug said:

Here is Hans Martin Hansens burial record in1861, at 15 3/4 years, born 22 Oct 1845, son of Watchmaker Hansen. It is record no. 50 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7421/81680/30

 

Does the burial record have any other information (cause of death etc) or is it simply just what the name suggests? 

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Per H Skaug
2 minutes ago, Emma Hall said:

Thank you - d

 

Does the burial record have any other information (cause of death etc) or is it simply just what the name suggests? 

Emma,

 

The record states that he died of Hjernebetennelse, possibly the same as meningitis (if they could identify this in the 1860s). As far as I can tell, he was also living at Busterud, which is an area in Halden. I don't think there is any other info in the record beyond what I have already stated before.

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Emma Hall
Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Per H Skaug said:

Emma,

 

The record states that he died of Hjernebetennelse, possibly the same as meningitis (if they could identify this in the 1860s). As far as I can tell, he was also living at Busterud, which is an area in Halden. I don't think there is any other info in the record beyond what I have already stated before.

 

Thanks Per. I know child mortality rates were higher in the 1800s but its sad they lost two children and two of the surviving ones left home! As for Sophie, I will look through the book Carl-Henry linked me to and see if I can find any trace of her.  

 

1 hour ago, Carl-Henry Geschwind said:

 

My experience has been that Ole usually stayed Ole - but that was in America, where Ole (being the most common Norwegian name) was a relatively accepted name. I have no idea what the practice for Norwegian immigrants in England would have been - are Olaf or Olav still regularly used in northeast England? Other than that, any name with an O and an L sound in it - which of course leads me to think that Louie is a good alternate.

 

I don't think we have actually looked for straight-up "Ole Hansen" born ca. 1850 in Norway in English records yet.

 

I haven't come across the names Ole, Olaf or Olav in the North East before so I don't think they were common here. I will have a search for the Hansen's in England and see what, if anything, I find. 

Edited by Emma Hall

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Bjarne Rosenstrøm
Posted (edited)

The obituary of watchmaker Per Hansen, from the newspaper "Smaalenenes Amtstidende" 5th March 1916. Unfortunately no list of his children, only the one daughter, Sofie. 

 

"It is hereby announced to relatives and friends that our dear father, grandfather and great-grandfather watchmaker Per Hansen died quietly today 94 years old. Fredrikshald March 2, 1916. Sofie Gundersen born hansen. Grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Burial will take place from the chapel on Wednesday at 1:45 p.m."
 

 

1.jpg

Edited by Bjarne Rosenstrøm
Added translation

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Per H Skaug
Posted (edited)

Bjarne #84

 

thsi means that Sofie Hansen is probably the same as Sofie Gundersen in these censusrecords:

 

1891 in Frederikshald https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01052669000494

1900 in Berg https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01037001000918

1910 in Halden https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01036333005173

 

From all of these Censuses this Sofie is said to be born in Berg  (not Frederikshald), and in 1910 she is said to be born 15 Mar 1852, whereas our Sofie Hansen in born 15 Mar 1853, from the baptism record. However, the date is the same, and Berg is next to (and now part of) Halden

 

She was married to Jonas Gundersen, a blacksmith at the plank factory who was born 30 July 1859 in Dalsbo Sweden.

 

They had the children

 

Johan Ludvig Gundersen, born 1887 in Id

Oskar Gundersen, born 1888 in Id

Hjalmar Gundersen, born 1890 in Frederiskhald

Olga Randine Josefa Gundersen, born 1 Oct 1893 in Berg

 

 

 

Edited by Per H Skaug

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Per H Skaug

And here is the wedding record for Jonas Gundersen and Sofie Hansen in Frederikshald 23 Sep 1885, where she is stated as the daughter of watchmaker Peder Hansen. It is her 2nd marriage. https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/5463/27964/41

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Ragnhild K. Brænd

Fredrikshalds tilskuer 17.06.1882:

sofie.jpg

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Ragnhild K. Brænd

Smaalenenes social-demokrat 03.10.1927:

gundersen.jpg

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Per H Skaug
Posted (edited)

Sophie Hansen and Anders Gustav Gundersen had the daughter Olga Anette Gundersen, born 25 Dec 1879 in Frederikshald, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N4G3-S4C. died 7 April 1886 in Frederikshald of Diphteria  https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/267/pg00000000756893

Edited by Per H Skaug

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Per H Skaug

Here is the baptism record of Olga Anette Gundersen,, born 25 Dec 1879 in Frederikshald. Among the godparents are watchmaker P. Hansen and seaman Otto W. (i think it reads) Hansen. https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/5463/27958/31

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Cathrin Jegersberg

In 1887-1888 a person named Louis Hansen from fr.hald has been back in Fredrikshald at the declaration office. One of the sons from this family?

 

louis-hansen-to-antwerpend.png.4f5b24a72be5275f816594048e15b8c0.png     louis-hansen-to-hull.png.eea4ce8a04d84a533ab1d28dec35241d.png

 

 

 

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Per H Skaug

Here is the baptism record of Anders Gustaf Gundersen, born 25 Dec 1856 in Dalskog, Alvsborg lan in Sweden. His parents have the same names as the parents of Sophies second husband, so it appears she married her husbands younger brother after her first husband died.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V7VV-GNL?treeref=GSPY-8DK

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Carl-Henry Geschwind
23 minutes ago, Cathrin Jegersberg said:

In 1887-1888 a person named Louis Hansen from fr.hald has been back in Fredrikshald at the declaration office. One of the sons from this family?

 

The way I read these entries is that it is the ship Louis, captain Hansen, leaving from Fredrikshald to Antwerpen (in first case) and to Hull (in second case).

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Cathrin Jegersberg
Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Per H Skaug said:

Here is the baptism record of Anders Gustaf Gundersen, born 25 Dec 1856 in Dalskog, Alvsborg lan in Sweden

 

Here is the family from the Swedish record , Dalskogs kyrkoarkiv, Husförhörslängder, SE/GLA/13083/A I/14 (1856-1861), bildid: C0043427_00185, sida 180 https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0043427_00185

 

dalskog.thumb.png.d98dff0c0a955cf91024efbdb9f95ea5.png

Edited by Cathrin Jegersberg

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Bjarne Rosenstrøm
49 minutter siden, Cathrin Jegersberg skrev:

In 1887-1888 a person named Louis Hansen from fr.hald has been back in Fredrikshald at the declaration office. One of the sons from this family?

 

louis-hansen-to-antwerpend.png.4f5b24a72be5275f816594048e15b8c0.png     louis-hansen-to-hull.png.eea4ce8a04d84a533ab1d28dec35241d.png

 

The ship is called Louis

The captain of said ship is called Hansen

 

26 minutter siden, Carl-Henry Geschwind skrev:

 

The way I read these entries is that it is the ship Louis, captain Hansen, leaving from Fredrikshald to Antwerpen (in first case) and to Hull (in second case).

 

 

 

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Cathrin Jegersberg
Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Carl-Henry Geschwind said:

 

The way I read these entries is that it is the ship Louis, captain Hansen, leaving from Fredrikshald to Antwerpen (in first case) and to Hull (in second case).

 

OMG. Here is the Bark Louis mentioned. https://www.sjohistorie.no/no/skip/18009/

Edited by Cathrin Jegersberg

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