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Emma Hall

Louis Thompson, born 1850 in Fredrikshald

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Ivar Moe
Posted (edited)

Its possible that this information already is well known?

Ole og Ludvigs mothers birth and her parents

Oline Børresdatter b. 18 april 1821 in Berg, Halden . Baptism 4 jan. 1822

 

Her father: Børre Olsen

Mother : Marte Andreassen ??

 

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7429/81707/60

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ivar Moe

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Per H Skaug
Posted (edited)

Ivar,

 

their father is number 12 here, born 4 April 1822. https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7429/81707/62 with parents Hans Hansen and Randi Pedersdatter.

 

That ties with his 1910 census birth date of 4 April 1822, and since this Peter is a former watchmaker there is no doubt that it is the correct one. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01036333006789

Edited by Per H Skaug

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Ivar Moe
6 minutter siden, Per H Skaug skrev:

their father is number 12 here, born 4 April 1822. https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7429/81707/62 with parents Hans Hansen and Randi Pedersdatter.

 

That ties with his 1910 census birth date of 4 April 1822, and since this Peter is a former watchmaker there is no doubt that it is the correct one. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01036333006789

 

Ok, good correction Per.

My proposal has now been removed

 

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Carl-Henry Geschwind

 

46 minutes ago, Ivar Moe said:

Ole og Ludvigs mothers birth and her parents

Oline Børresdatter b. 18 april 1821 in Berg, Halden . Baptism 4 jan. 1822

 

Marriage of Peder Hansen and Oline Børresdatter, 8 July 1845 in Berg: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060604010806, nr. 6. (this was about three months before first son Hans Martin Hansen was born in Fredrikshald). This record shows that Børre (Børge) Olsen is her father, so the birth on 18 April 1821 in Berg is correct.

 

Her parents Børre Olsen and Marthe Andreasdat. were married 4 Jan 1822 in Berg: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061013020402, nr. 9 (this is same date their first daughter Oline was baptised; she had been born nearly 9 months before).

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Ivar Moe
Posted (edited)

Children of Randi Pedersdatter og Hans Hansen

 

Else - b. 1807 Bunæss Pladsen

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000011764676

 

Hans - b. 1810 Ulvehollet under Bunæss (strange name of birthplace) Must be Ulveholtet (wolf grove) name of a small farm. 

https://www.halden.kommune.no/teknisk/miljøoglandbruk/skogogjordbruk/ulveholtet/om_ulveholtet/Sider/side.aspx

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000011765047

Edited by Ivar Moe

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Per H Skaug
Posted (edited)

Here is Else's confirmation in 1822, as number 15. They were living in Myren at the time, which was probably a crofters place under a farm.  https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7429/81710/35

 

Here is Hans' confirmation in 1825, as number 10. There were still living in Myren. https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7429/81710/42

 

Lars' confirmation in 1833 as number 10. Still in Myren. https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7430/81718/6

 

Peder in 1836, number 19. Still in Myhra, https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7435/37730/30

Edited by Per H Skaug
Added in confirmations

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Emma Hall

Wow I am amazed at what you have discovered while I have been at work!

 

No response from Philippa on Family Search as yet - so hoping this family is mine - feel very invested in them now, despite one being a criminal!

 

Emma

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Carl-Henry Geschwind
On 8/17/2019 at 11:40 AM, Emma Hall said:

A lot of my DNA matches do have ancestral name matches to Hansen however, that said, I also have matches with Pedersen and variants on Thompson - I haven't specifically been able to find Ole or his parents in any of my searches / matches' DNA.

 

If you haven't already done so, you might want look again at your DNA matches - it is possible your matches haven't traced their ancestry all the way back to Peder and Oline Hansen, but perhaps there is a hit for either a Hansen in England (Amy Olive Hansen, Thomas Jewitt Hansen, Irene May Hansen, or Philip Randolph Hansen - children of Louis Hansen in England) and/or a Gundersen in Norway (Olga Annette Gundersen, Johan Ludvig Gundersen, Oskar Gundersen, Hjalmar Gundersen, Olga Randine Josefa Gundersen - children of Sophie Hansen with her two Gundersen husbands). If you can find a hit for one of these, that would confirm that your Louis Thompson is Ole Hansen.

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Per H Skaug
Posted (edited)

This is probably(?) Else Hansdatter's wedding to Lars Andersen the 14th of April in 1852. She was 46 years old, and daughter of a Hans Hansen. Based on the age, there is probably no children of the couple, so most likely no descendants. https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/347/2248/51

Edited by Per H Skaug

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Per H Skaug
Posted (edited)

This is possibly Hans Hansen (the brother of Peter Hansen, the watchmaker) at Tømmerholt in Tune in the census in 1865 https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01037997006384 married to Oline Petersdatter, 46 years, born in Berg, with children Petria Randine and Hans Petter (the full names were found at FS)

 

Here is the wedding of Hans (stated Olsen, but a son of Hans Hansen) marrying Oline Petersdatter on the 6th of April https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7435/37733/32

He is stated as living on Wold, but born on Buu... (difficult to read, might be Bunæs, which is where the brother of the watchmaker was born)

To double check the father name, i also checked in the duplicate book, where he is called hans Hansen https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7430/81720/20

 

Edited by Per H Skaug

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Ivar Moe
Posted (edited)

I wonder if this is a daugther of Børre Olsen and Marthe Andreasdatter

 

Anne Sophie Børresdatter married December 29 - 1852 with sailor Johan Fredrik Sørensen Bigum

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/347/2248/53

 

I cant find her baptism, born 1831 - 1832 

 

And a son: Johan Petter Børresen born 16 sep. 1827

No 1

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7434/146?indexing=

 

Børre Olsen parents are likely:

Ole Baalsen and Boel Helgesdatter

 

Børre Olsen was a sailor. Born approximately 1797 and died September 11, 1843

 

 

Johan Fredrik Sørensen Bigum  October 9, 1822 - July 16, 1907

000089_37375376uy0l91b94cwn35.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by Ivar Moe

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Carl-Henry Geschwind
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Ivar Moe said:

I cant find her baptism, born 1831 - 1832

 

Born 16 Nov 1831, baptised 29 Jul 1832 (under name Anne Sophie Gudmundsen Børresdatter): https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7435/10, nr. 29

 

She has five children listed at familysearch.org: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LC5V-QGZ

 

I also found a total of 6 children there for Børre Olsen, but have not yet checked them all against the churchbooks.

Edited by Carl-Henry Geschwind

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Ivar Moe
2 minutter siden, Carl-Henry Geschwind skrev:

Born 16 Nov 1831, baptised 29 Jul 1832 (under name Anne Sophie Gudmundsen Børresdatter): https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7435/10, nr. 29

 

Strange she was named Gudmundsen Børresdatter

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Per H Skaug
8 hours ago, Ragnhild K. Brænd said:

Fredrikshalds tilskuer 17.06.1882:

sofie.jpg

Since Anders Gustav Gundersen was in South Shields when he died, he was presumably visiting one of his brother in laws, Louis Hansen or Louis Thompson.  Would it be worthwile looking for his death records in England, and whether there was an address or a next-of kin that would tie Louis Thompson to him?

 

Also, might there have been any weddings or baptisms while he was there that he might have attended as a best man or a godparent?

 

Lastly, we have not looked at any of the birthrecords for Louis T or Louis H's children, or their wedding records. I dont know if these records would list godparents or best men, but might there be something to find there? That being said i don't know to what is included on these records, and if this is even a worthwile exercise.

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Carl-Henry Geschwind
16 minutes ago, Per H Skaug said:

Lastly, we have not looked at any of the birthrecords for Louis T or Louis H's children, or their wedding records

 

As far as I know, the problem with British records of this time period is that they are not online - the British registry offices see them as a revenue source, so you have to pay a fee to get a copy, and it takes several weeks for processing. All we have are the indexes, which can pin down a birth or marriage to a three-month period, but don't give further detail.

 

Norway is MUCH more user-friendly for genealogists!

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Emma Hall

My mum may have the relevant records. I will see if they have any further information on them but if he died in 1882 then Anders won’t be on the records for Louis T as the key dates are after this.

 

Info I have on My Heritage tree for Louis T marriage and children are as follows:

 

Married Sarah Elizabeth Wilby in 1887. Witnesses have surname Vibond.

 

Oliver, 1889 (no further details)

 

Eliza Jamesine, 1891 - May 11, Sunderland (married James Marr Algernon Towenson, South Shields Jan 14 1912).

 

Oline, 1896 (married William Wood, 1917).

 

Lily, 1898

 

Louise, no date

 

Ludvig’s children were all born after 1882 as well.

 

I will ask my mam to look up the death record for Anders and see what’s on it.

 

No luck with DNA matches yet.

 

Emma

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Ivar Moe
Posted (edited)

Hi Emma

 

Son of Ludvig/Louis - Thomas Jewitt Hansen was married to Mary Hedley. They had a son named Peter Hansen. (According to Familysearch see #41 and a source on MyHeritage) Is it possible to find more about  him in english sources?

He was born 2. apr 1931 in Sunderland, Durham.

 

 

Brg

Ivar

Edited by Ivar Moe

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Emma Hall
Posted (edited)

Hi all

 

I did a search on My Heritage for a death for Anders Gundersen and the only result that comes up is for someone born circa 1880. I have asked my mam to check on Ancestry and see if there’s anything on there.

 

South Tyneside / Shields have records searchable online but Anders isn’t coming up for deaths in 1882 however it does imply that the system is not fully up to date so it could be that the record hasn’t been digitised yet.

 

https://www.southtyneside.gov.uk/article/34814/Search-historical-births-deaths-and-marriages-records

 

21 hours ago, Ivar Moe said:

Hi Emma

 

Son of Ludvig/Louis - Thomas Jewitt Hansen was married to Mary Hedley. They had a son named Peter Hansen. (According to Familysearch see #41 and a source on MyHeritage) Is it possible to find more about  him in english sources?

He was born 2. apr 1931 in Sunderland, Durham.

 

 

Brg

Ivar

 

Is the My Heritage source for Peter Hansen just a record search or was he found in a family tree?

 

I have been busy tonight on My Heritage - I have found children of Oline Borresdatter’s (Ole’s mother) siblings as well as their grandchildren and in one case a great grandchild - most were of the source Geni (and some of them even have photos) so I have joined that site in the hope I can find the family tree on there and contact them for further info. Haven’t had a chance to confirm on actual records. 

 

There were also two people on the site with family trees featuring Hjalmar Gundersen but I am not sure they have profiled their DNA - that’s to check tomorrow and I will also contact them to see if they know more about the family (perhaps won’t tell them straight away that Hjalmar may have been a criminal!) 

 

Sorry if I have missed this but one of my searches came up with a listing for Bolette Randi (Ole’s sister) and it states that both her and her husband died at sea in 1887. Not sure where the record would be to confirm that (unless it has already been sourced).

 

Thanks

 

Emma

 

Edited by Emma Hall

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Carl-Henry Geschwind
5 minutes ago, Emma Hall said:

Sorry if I have missed this but one of my searches came up with a listing for Bolette Randi (Ole’s sister) and it states that both her and her husband died at sea in 1887. Not sure where the record would be to confirm that (unless it has already been sourced).

 

Sorry, this was unfair of us, as it was in Norwegian and not translated, but if you go to post #68, that newspaper article is an official notice from February 1888 telling everyone owed money by skipper Anton Eilertsen and his wife Bolette Randi (both lost at sea in fall 1887) to put in their claims, so that probate on the estate can be held. And in post #72 I then provided a link to the probate record.

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Jane Thomas

Hello,

 

I was given this link by Carl-Henry Geschwind, from a query on Family Search.

 

Sorry I do not speak Norwegian - your archives enties are easy if you look for names but I miss some of the meanings of other parts of the entries.

 

My  cousin once removed, Philippa Hansen, contacted me when Emma hall contacted her, as I had done some research on Louis Hansen. born Ludwig Pederson.

 

He changed his forename as there was a lot of anti-German feeling presumably in 1880s. He always used Hansen as far as his family were concerned.  

 

When I was looking for his birth on your archives, a few years ago I only found Ludvig as Hansen in a civic copy of Baptisms. All the others I found in various copies as Pederson so I assumed that he must have been born after surnames replaced patronyms,

 

Louis would never talk about his life in Norway and never mentioned his parents, He never wanted to go back.

 

Amy was told Oline (her second) name was her fathers favourite Norwegian name.

 

In the proper naturalization papers in The National Archives in Kew his mother's name is spelt correctly. In the Ancestry copy Oline is written Olive - I put it down to an arrogant Englishman

thinking he knew better thus it had to be Olive!

 

Of Louis children only Thomas Jewitt and Philip Randoph married and had children, I am Philip's middle child. I have sister and a brother.

 

Just to add further fact - useful or otherwise. My mother's mother. in the 1890 and until she married, lived in a public house on Charleton riverside. Just down the Thames from Greenwich. All the men of the family - her uncle and cousins were watermen (moved people in boats) and lightermen (moved goods). They also could move steamships in and out of docks onto buoys and move them up or down river at high tide. Thus the "pub" was a meeting place for captains and watermen to sort out movements.

 

She (my Gm) once said to me as I remember it , "We knew Captain Hansen and Captain Thomson/Thompson  and were most surprised to discover they were brothers!"

 

When I found that the family name was Pederson I assumed my memory for  the different name was wrong. I may have added the Captain - she could have said Mr. I do not ever remember that Thomson was an engineer but as an officer he probably came to the pub to catch a boat back to the ship on the buoys,

 

The Hansens were "down south" in Forrest Hill in 1899 and Irene was born in Sundorne Road in 1902, so If Louis H was in the Norwegian Seaman's Mission in Shields or or in boarding houses,  when ashore from his ships, he and his brother would not have had much chance to talk. We know he was in the mission at least once because that is where Elizabeth Ann Udall met him when she took a message from her father, John Udall (hence my uncle, Jack's name). In 1901 census they are there under Haysen - looking up Amy Oline finds them.

 

Assuming Ole Pedersen started to go to sea and met a lot of anti-German feeling Ole could easily become Lou -> Louis. Pedersen is much "more" foreign than Hansen but Ole may not have met many in Britain when he was young so chose a less Germanic, sounding one. Perhaps he talked to a Thomas!

 

Louis H left Norway in a barque named Laura About two and a half years before he signed-on om  a British registered ship in Feb 1878 somewhere in the US. they were all sailing so presumably Ole/Louis T? also first went to sea under sail,

 

Did Norway have apprenticeships at 14/15?

 

Sorry this is so long.

 

I will work through all your findings soon.

 

Was Sophie's husband who died in S Shields at sea?

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Per H Skaug

Hi Jane,

 

are you saying that your grandmother knew that Louis Thompson and Louis Hansen were brothers? If so, that would confimr this theory tha we have been working on. Or is this something she said after you told her about this hypothesis?

 

 

She (my Gm) once said to me as I remember it , "We knew Captain Hansen and Captain Thomson/Thompson  and were most surprised to discover they were brothers!"

 

When I found that the family name was Pederson I assumed my memory for  the different name was wrong. I may have added the Captain - she could have said Mr. I do not ever remember that Thomson was an engineer but as an officer he probably came to the pub to catch a boat back to the ship on the buoys,

Edited by Per H Skaug

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