Need help understanding Saledahls Praestegaard

[Larry Melander]

Need some help.  Some of my ancestors are shown on p. 390 of the 1801 Census for Rogaland- Suldal parish.  They are Marta Aslagsdatter and her son Halvor Haavarsen.  They are shown in a place called Ovre Moen.  Is this an independent farm or is it part of Saledahls Praestegaard?  If so, does anyone know where it is?  I found a farm without a house on Norgeskart which is just west of Helganes farm but not sure.  And is Saledahls Praestegaard some type of poor house or tenement?  Can anyone help?

image id number ft20090806680215

RA, 1801 census for 1134P Suldal, 1801, p. 389b-390a
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ft20090806680215
 

[Ivar S. Ertesvåg]

first: I do not have particular knowlegde of this area. Local experts will know more - if they are available here.

 

It seems that Øvre Moen is a "husmannsplass" under Suldal (here "Salledahl") Vicarage. Similarly "Nedre Moen" (next entry).

This means that it is operated as a separate farm unit, but formally part of the main farm (the vicarage). For instance, the "husmann"

paid tax to the owner, who paid tax for the main farm including the "plass".

Some of these units were in time formally registered as separate farms and included in the "Matrikkel" (farm registry).

Øvre Moen and Nedre Moen are not found in the farm registry (Matrikkel) of 1838, https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/35483/128

 

"Salledahls Præstagaard" is the vicarage.  The "farmer" is the vicar (here, apparently the old vicar, 81 years and "suspenderet")

[Grethe Flood]

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01058358000016

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01058358000016 (English)

 

Hordaland, Rogaland fylke, Røldal, Suldal, Sauda i Suldal, Statlig folketelling nr. 38 (1801-1801), Protokollside, Side 389b-390a
Permanent bilde-ID: ft20090806680215
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ft20090806680215
Permanent bildelenke: http://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-ft20090806680215.jpg 

 

if you look at the top of 1801 the census list you may see who is head of the household, and that is Erik Anker Bruun, widower, dean and suspended pastor (sogneprest). So Marta and her son were living on the farm of the dean and pastor Erik Anker Bruun. In 1798 Erik Bruun was suspended from his office as dean (prost) and had to go to Suldal.
 

 

Endret November 9, 2019 av Grethe Flood

[Ivar S. Ertesvåg]

3 minutter siden, Grethe Flood skrev:

 So Marta and her son were living on the farm of the dean and pastor Erik Anker Bruun.

This can be misunderstood...

 

Marta is "Husquide" "med Jord" (=with land), normally meaning that she has a separate piece of land and a separate residence. She was not in the house of the vicar.

Endret November 9, 2019 av Ivar S. Ertesvåg

[Larry Melander]

Thanks so much for the help and education.  I am still a little confused.  I understand the farms (Ovre Moen and Nedre Moen) don't show up in the 1838 farm registry.  I know there are many farms that have portions spun off and used that have their own names but are still considered part of the parent farm- for example I have relatives that come from the Legaard or Oppistov farms in Roldal parish (as shown in the Roldal Bygdebok) but when you look up their names in census or parish records the main farm of Haare is used.  The 1801 census says Marta is "med jord"  is it possible that the land she holds the paper on is on a farm partition or "bruk" that is part of the vicarage farm?  Or is it possible that these are a "bruk" or partition from another farm- perhaps Tjostheim??  The reasons I ask- Halvor had 2 brothers- Sveinnung born in 1790 and Aslak born in 1792 and both list their father Haavar as coming from Moen.  Haavar is also shown as having died in 1798 and again it lists the Moen farm.  The 1801 census says his mother Marta is "med jord"  so I am assuming that land is the same land her son's were born on and her husband died on which would be Moen.  Also, her son Halvor's confirmation record in 1803 shows him from coming from Tjostheim (Kiostem) and his marriage record in 1811 also has him coming from Tjostheim (Kiostem).  And when Marta died in 1810 it lists that she also was from Tjostheim (Kiostem).  Any thoughts?

Sveinnung and Aslak's birth records-

SAST, Suldal sokneprestkontor, IV/L0003: Parish register (official) no. A 3, 1780-1800, p. 15
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070627610569
SAST, Suldal sokneprestkontor, IV/L0003: Parish register (official) no. A 3, 1780-1800, p. 39
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070627610593
Their father Haavar's death record-

SAST, Suldal sokneprestkontor, IV/L0003: Parish register (official) no. A 3, 1780-1800, p. 85
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070627620036
Halvor's confirmation record-

SAST, Suldal sokneprestkontor, IV/L0004: Parish register (official) no. A 4, 1800-1816, p. 33
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070627620079
Halvor's marriage record-

SAST, Suldal sokneprestkontor, IV/L0004: Parish register (official) no. A 4, 1800-1816, p. 72
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070627620118
His mother Marta's death record-

SAST, Suldal sokneprestkontor, IV/L0004: Parish register (official) no. A 4, 1800-1816, p. 67
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070627620113
 

 

Endret November 9, 2019 av Larry Melander

[Even Stormoen]

Hi Larry

 

Probably not relevant at all – but:

 

Øvre Moen, if this is the correct one, is at the present time uninhabited with no existing buildings. The place is also rather barren, so it is hard to imagine how farming could be possible –  maybe conditions were much different 200 years ago . . .

 

Today, however, it is one of the starting points for hiking to the very popular (for hikers) Stranddalen Turisthytte (follow the red dots 😉

 

– Just a remark, or ‹Fun Fact›.

 

 

All the best

Endret November 9, 2019 av Even Stormoen

[Ivar S. Ertesvåg]

48 minutter siden, Even Stormoen skrev:

Probably not relevant at all – but:

 

Øvre Moen, if this is the correct one, is at the present time uninhabited with no existing buildings.

I think your are right - it is not relevant...

"Mo" simply means flat land, usually sandy (i.e. well drained). There can be many such places in an area.

The Øvre and Nedre Moen in the 1801 census belongs to the vicarage, and is probably not far from it.

A "husmannsplass" sometimes became established as a separate farm unit ("bruk", holding), sometimes incorporated into the parent farm.

This means that at some point in time, these units may have disappeared.

 

2 timer siden, Larry Melander skrev:

 I am still a little confused.  I understand the farms (Ovre Moen and Nedre Moen) don't show up in the 1838 farm registry.  I know there are many farms that have portions spun off and used that have their own names but are still considered part of the parent farm- for example I have relatives that come from the Legaard or Oppistov farms in Roldal parish (as shown in the Roldal Bygdebok) but when you look up their names in census or parish records the main farm of Haare is used.  The 1801 census says Marta is "med jord"  is it possible that the land she holds the paper on is on a farm partition or "bruk" that is part of the vicarage farm?  Or is it possible that these are a "bruk" or partition from another farm- perhaps Tjostheim?? 
 

 

If you look in the scanned 1838 "matrikkel", several farms have two or more holdings. In this registry, the "gard" (farm) have a "matrikkelnummer",

and each holding has a "løpenummer". (In 1886, the numbering system was reorganised to "gardsnummer" and "bruksnummer").

These holdings are registered units in the "matrikkel", with "skyld" (a metric of the value - and basis for taxation etc.)

your examples (from Røldal in Hordaland/Søndre Bergenhus): 

Legaard is a "bruk" (no. 3) of Håra (Haare), "gard" (no. 1) in Røldal; in 1886:  http://www.rhd.uit.no/matrikkel/mtliste.aspx?knr=1229&gnr=1

In 1838, it was not established as a separate "bruk", https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/35484/73

The "løpenummer" just before 1886, 1b1, shows that it was originally a part of No.1, which was split into 1a and 1b; and then 1b was split into 1b1 and 1b2

Oppistov seems to be "bruk" no. 1 of Håra. (but the name Oppistov is not used in the registry).

A "(husmanns)plass" belongs to one or more such holdings. It is not a registered unit in the "matrikkel" and has no "skyld".

The Øvre and Nedre Moen around 1801 for sure belongs to the vicarage. They can be held by  the same family for generations.

At the time, they were identified as residences of its familiy.  The "husmann" (or here, "huskvinne") could have a written contract with the landlord.

He/she had also the right to register ("tinglyse") this contract (but this would cost money, and was rarely done).

 

[Larry Melander]

Thank you so much!  That is exactly the type of information I needed.  And thanks for clueing me into another information source available online with the matrikkel registers and how to use them.  So in short, it looks like Marta and her family probably had a contract with the vicarage for a portion of the Ovre Moen farm (which explains the census record saying she ws "med jord") and that also explains why her husband and children all use the Moen farm as part of their namesake.  Then it's probable that Halvor and Marta both move to the Tjostheim farm shortly after the 1801 census which would explain why Halvor's confirmation record in 1803 says he was from there.