Need some help with Margit Helgesdatter Fulsås/Tveiten

[Larry Melander]

Need some help with Margit Helgesdatter Fulsås/Tveiten from Rollag parish in Buskerud/Viken.  I have a copy of Rollag Bygdebok (Knut Hoff) and in Bind II for Fulsås farm on p. 305- it appears to say Margit and her 2 siblings Reidar and Ingeborg are children of Helge Reidarsson Fulsås and says that Helge's brother Halvor had custody of them until they were grown.  It then goes on to say that Margit married Hellek Ingebretsson Tveiten.  On page 304- it says that Helge was born about 1634 and his brother Halvor in 1642.  When I check the Tveiten Nedre farm page 118 in Rollag Bygdebok Bind II- it shows that Margit and Hellek had 6 children with the earliest listed as 1652.

 

The dates just don't match up- how can Margit be born to Helge Reidarsson who was born in 1634 and have children of her own less than 20 years later?  Am I misreading/translating the Fulsås pages?  Are Margit, Reidar, and Ingebjorg siblings of Helge and Halvor and not Helge's children?  That would make sense of the numbers.  Appreciate any help.

 

(sorry- I tried to attach the scans of these 3 pages but they take up too much space)

 

 

[Dag Thorsdalen]

I understand why you are confused, Larry! The explanation is that the “Rollag Bygdebok” is mixing two different generations – grandfather and grandson – with identical names and both having a daughter named Margit Høljesdatter.

 

The first known generation at Fulsås Nordre is Reidar Høljesson Fulsås, mentioned between 1560 and 1593, and had passed away before 1600. Two known children, Knut and Hølje. Wife unknown. He had a brother, Torgeir, and it’s likely that Fulsås Nordre was inherited through their mother.

 

Second generation is his son Hølje Reidarsson Fulsås who died between 1624 and 1626. He was your Margit’s father. She must have been his youngest child, born just before or even after his death. My estimate is that she was born in 1625 +/- one year. The following years a Margit paid the taxes, probably Hølje’s widow and Margit Høljesdatter’s mother.

 

In 1631 the farm was taken over by a new Reidar Høljesson Fulsås, probably his parents’ eldest son. Wife unknown, 3 known children: Hølje (born abt. 1634), Halvor (born abt. 1642) and a daughter. He died abt. 1645.

 

His eldest son Hølje Reidarsson Fulsås took over the farm abt. 1660. He was still alive in 1664 but died shortly thereafter. Wife unknown, 3 children grew up: Reidar, Margit and Ingeborg. It was these children who were in the custody of their uncle Halvor.

 

Unfortunately, the “Rollag Bygdebok” contains a lot of this type errors and mistakes. The reason is that the text is based on the research of a number of persons, and that several misunderstandings happened when longer manuscripts were shortened to the text in the printed books.

 

[Larry Melander]

Appreciate your help Dag.

 

By carefully reading and diagramming Rollag Bygdebok for Fulsås nordre farm I was able to put together much of what you described except the link to the second generation Helge.  I have found a similar error involving another ancestor from the Kleivan/Laugje farms- who Rollag Bygdebok describes at different places as a sibling of children born to a man but is not listed in his list of children.

 

So you believe that the children of Helge Reidarsson (the one who took over the farm in 1660) may have been named correctly but that the authors incorrectly tied this Margit as being the one who married Hellek Ingebretson Tveiten.  And that the actual Margit Helgesdatter who married Hellek was the daughter of Helge Reidarsson of your second generation who died around 1625.  And that this Margit would have been the sister of the third generation- Reidar and his 3 brothers and 4 sisters listed in the text- but is not included by oversight or misunderstanding by the authors in that list of children.  

 

This fits nicely.  May I ask what references or sources if any you have used to confirm your belief?

Endret Juli 10, 2020 av Larry Melander

[Larry Melander]

Another question Dag.

 

Is there a mechanism (other than this forum) to provide feedback or flags so others who use Rollag Bygdebok may be aware of the error(s)??

[Elin Galtung Lihaug]

Re: Feedback on errors in Rollag Bygdebøker

 

I have published a brief article in the Norwegian Genealogcial Society's "Slektshistoriewiki":

https://www.genealogi.no/wiki/index.php/Liste_over_kjente_feil_i_Rollag_Bygdebok

 

- and hope that more examples will be revealed so that they may be added in this wiki article.

 

A few articles have been published in the Slektshistoriewiki mentioning errors in other bygdebøker:

https://www.genealogi.no/wiki/index.php/Kategori:Feil_i_norske_bygdebøker 

Endret Juli 10, 2020 av Elin Galtung Lihaug

[Dag Thorsdalen]

Excellent, Elin! I understand that you want to keep me busy during the summer😉

 

 

Larry, you have understood me correctly.

 

My sources are the documents from the court cases about the rights to the Fulsås nordre farm in the 1670s and 1680s. Your (and mine) Hellik Ingebretsson Tveiten was involved in the first of these cases, which was concluded in 1674, in a way that reveals his and his wife’s relationship to the other parties.

 

In addition, it is physical impossible that Hellik in the early 1670s could have been married to a daughter of the generation 4 Hølje Reidarsson (stated to be aged 30 in 1664). His children must have been born during just a few years from the very last years of the 1650s until abt. 1665/66. His daughter Ingeborg is among my ancestors too. If you are interested in the history of the Norwegian emigration to the USA, you’ll find some of the pioneers of the 1830s and 1840s among her descendants.

 

Your example from the Kleivan/Laugje farms is typical. For one of my ancestors I had to consult five different places in four of the five volumes of Rollag Bygdebok to get the complete overview of his children!

 

[Elin Galtung Lihaug]

Yes, Dag, if you can reveal more examples they will be added to the wiki article.

 

Has the court case about the rights to the Fulsås nordre farm been published online, so that I can link to it in the wiki article? Or do you have an address to this document in Arkivportalen?

[Odd K. Stuvstad]

På 10.7.2020 den 8.11, Dag Thorsdalen skrev:

 

In 1631 the farm was taken over by a new Reidar Høljesson Fulsås, probably his parents’ eldest son. Wife unknown, 3 known children: Hølje (born abt. 1634), Halvor (born abt. 1642) and a daughter. He died abt. 1645.

 

 

 

 

The bygdebok for Sigdal and Eggedal identifies Reier Helgesen Fulsås wife as Gunhild Halvorsdatter Nerdalen.