Trugge Ingebregtsdatter 1799 moved to Vefsn from Tynset?

[Ken Ogren]

Trugge (True) appears to be my dad's maternal great great grandmother.  In her marriage record to my dad's great great grandfather

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/16546/40

I'm told it refers to her as a widow and from "Op(p)dal".

In her census records from 1865

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/38360/20

and the 1875 census (although she is refered to as Trugge Jacobsdatter) she is said to be from Tønset.

I am trying to see if I can make the connection to this True

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/9207/44682/33

I have this marriage record line 14

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/16576/137

and this marriage record line 22

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/16546/40

 

Am I close? can someone help me verify the fine details that confirm or deny these relationships? 

Thank you for your help.

[Randi Elisabeth Haugros]

Census 1865 in english:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038360000190

 

Census 1875:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052415004219

 

Endret August 8, 2020 av Randi Elisabeth Haugros

[Randi Elisabeth Haugros]

True Embretsdatter born 1799 in Tylldalen, Tynset, parents Embret Knutsen Øverbye and Maret Olsdatter Hokstad Nordstu.

Embret's father, Knut Arnesen  Øverby bought the farm Enga or Engen in Tylldal in 1769. Embret owned Enga after 1810, his father died in 1810.

In 1822 Embret sold the farm. Embret and his wife, Maret, and their 8 children went to Skoelvdalen in Målselv, Troms county.

 

Source: Tylldal Bygdebok, author Bjarne Grandum, page 292, farm Enga, gn. 18. bn.2.

 

May be this is True who went to Vefsn or may be  not.  If this True is yours, she went from Målselv to Vefsn.

 

Who went to the US and when? Your great great grandmother's son or daugther from the first or the second marriage?

 

You have to find True Embretsdatter and her parents in Bardu maybe Målselv, to see if she moved to Offersøen,  and then to Vefsn.

 

Endret August 8, 2020 av Randi Elisabeth Haugros

[Anton Hagelee]

If she was a widow for her second marriage her husband must have died. If so perhaps he died in Alstahaug. Here is a record for a Jacob Jacobsen who died in Alstahaug in 1833.

 

Age was 46.

 

For the death record See nr. 

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20050427021054

 

That does not much well with the age of 28 given for Jacob Jacobsen in his marriage record from 1830. 

 

However it does much fairly well with this Jacob Jacobsen born in 1790 and in the 1801 Census living on Kulvæhr.

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01058468004488

 

The Jacob Jacobsen that does match well with the age of 28 and birth year of about 1802 is found on Offersøen in the 1801 Census.

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01058468003494

 

 

 

 

 

 

Endret August 8, 2020 av Anton Hagelee

[Randi Elisabeth Haugros]

True Embretsdatter Østbye confirmation  1816, no 35:

SAH, Tynset prestekontor, Ministerialbok nr. 18, 1815-1829, s. 478-479
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070603380484

 

 

[Randi Elisabeth Haugros]

Jacob Jacobsen, the same Jacob as in Census 1801:

http://slekt.net/tng/getperson.php?personID=I47126&tree=1

 

 

[Randi Elisabeth Haugros]

Kulstad is in Vefsn.

Jacob Jacobsen, Kulstad, died 20. september 1836, no 72:

SAT, Ministerialprotokoller, klokkerbøker og fødselsregistre - Nordland, 820/L0290: Ministerialbok nr. 820A11, 1826-1845, s. 482
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20071005610350

 

 

 

 

Endret August 8, 2020 av Randi Elisabeth Haugros

[Randi Elisabeth Haugros]

Jacob and True moved to Kulstad in Vefsn in may 1830.

SAT, Ministerialprotokoller, klokkerbøker og fødselsregistre - Nordland, 820/L0290: Ministerialbok nr. 820A11, 1826-1845, s. 532
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20071005610381

 

 

[Ivar S. Ertesvåg]

 

It can be useful to link the initial thread at "tydeforum":   https://forum.arkivverket.no/topic/251665-vefsn-birth-record

 

2 timer siden, Anton Hagelee skrev:

If she was a widow for her second marriage her husband must have died. If so perhaps he died in Alstahaug. Here is a record for a Jacob Jacobsen who died in Alstahaug in 1833.

 

 

The marriage record has more information:  she was a "widow at Kulstad", and Kulstad is in Vefsn.  Furthermore, there as been a "skifte": division of inheritance (called "probate" at Digitalarkivet).

Running a farm usually required both husband and wife, so the recent 1-1.5 years is reasonable to look for the death record. Now Randi Elisabeth found it.

May be there is a public "skifte" as well? (it could be private, leaving no records)

[Randi Elisabeth Haugros]

True Ingebretsdatter, Kulstad, died at Kulstad, Vefsn, 12. august 1878, no 65:

SAT, Ministerialprotokoller, klokkerbøker og fødselsregistre - Nordland, 820/L0294: Ministerialbok nr. 820A15, 1866-1879, s. 325
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20050428031171

 

 

 

 

[Ken Ogren]

3 hours ago, Randi Elisabeth Haugros said:

Kulstad is in Vefsn.

Jacob Jacobsen, Kulstad, died 20. september 1837, no 72:

SAT, Ministerialprotokoller, klokkerbøker og fødselsregistre - Nordland, 820/L0290: Ministerialbok nr. 820A11, 1826-1845, s. 482
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20071005610350

 

 

Is it likely that True and Ole married 12 days later?

 

This 1801 Jacob Jacobsen's father is Jacob Michelsen, is it possible to still be the same person if the marriage record says His father is Jacob Sorens(en)?

 

22.  | 1 Octb  | Ole Christopher Olsen, Ungkarl, Gaardmandssøn, True Ingebrigtsdatter, gaardmands Enke Kulstad |

Rynæs, ibidem   [groom's birthplace, residence]  Opdahl [bride's birth place]  | 27   37  | Ole Henrichsen | Ingebrigt | Nils Isachsen Kulstad | Niels Ingebrigtsen Aabudsjord |

Tref.S, 1 p Trin, 2 Do. | Ligesaa [Af brudgommen selv] | Begge have Attest for Vaccination |

 

14 | Jacob Jacobs. nu[now] Kulstad før[previous] Offersøen 28 | Pige True Ingebrigtsd. Offersøe[n] 29 | Ingebrigt Knuds(?) og Jacob Sørens(?) Hamnes(?) | 20de S. e. Tr[e]f[oldighet] | Tiøtøe[Tjøtta] | - | d[itto] forrettet v Hr. Walnum[name of the Vicar] |

 

It seems to me that True Ingebregtsdatter married to someone from Kuhlstad, then later having someone residing in Kuhlstad as Trugge Jacobsdatter, then later as Trugge Ingebrigtsdatter would make this a strong possibility for a match as Jacobina's mother and Ole's future wife.  I am still unclear if there is a sufficient tie to the True of Tynset previously identified.

 

I can't glean much from the move record of May 1830 except their names and Kuhlstad, are there other clues there?

6 hours ago, Randi Elisabeth Haugros said:

You have to find True Embretsdatter and her parents in Bardu maybe Målselv, to see if she moved to Offersøen,  and then to Vefsn.

I will try to see what I can find in Bardu.

 

Endret August 8, 2020 av Ken Ogren

[Ivar S. Ertesvåg]

19 minutter siden, Ken Ogren skrev:

Is it likely that True and Ole married 12 days later?

 

No...  Jakob Jakobsen died in 1836, not 1837; that makes 1 year 12 days, which was appropriate.

 

21 minutter siden, Ken Ogren skrev:

This 1801 Jacob Jacobsen's father is Jacob Michelsen, is it possible to still be the same person if the marriage record says His father is Jacob Sorens(en)?

 

 

Jacob sørensen in the marriage record is a best man ("Forlover"); fathers' names are not mentioned.

 

24 minutter siden, Ken Ogren skrev:

I can't glean much from the move record of May 1830 except their names and Kuhlstad, are there other clues there?

 

SAT, Ministerialprotokoller, klokkerbøker og fødselsregistre - Nordland, 820/L0290: Ministerialbok nr. 820A11, 1826-1845, s. 532
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20071005610381

Purpose of immigration: "For at være Jordbruger paa Kulstad"  (To use farmland at Kulstad)

From which place moved and where born: "Offersøe, hvor han er født. Hendes fødested ikke oppgivet" (Offersøe, where he is born. Her place of birth not specified.)

 

[Ken Ogren]

31 minutes ago, Ivar S. Ertesvåg said:

No...  Jakob Jakobsen died in 1836, not 1837; that makes 1 year 12 days, which was appropriate.

That makes better sense to me, thank you for pointing that out.

 

31 minutes ago, Ivar S. Ertesvåg said:

Jacob sørensen in the marriage record is a best man ("Forlover"); fathers' names are not mentioned.

Thank you.

 

I'm not finding any census, or in migration to Bardu or Målselv Parishes, or in migration to Alstahaug  or Tjøtta local parishes.  I'm not familiar with these searches though, so I may be missing something.  There was an Embret Knudsen in migration, but he was born in 1846.

 

Endret August 8, 2020 av Ken Ogren

[Randi Elisabeth Haugros]

Jacobine, b. 19. mars 1838, bap. 12. april 1838, parents Ole Chr. Olsen Kulstad and True Ingebrigtdtr. 
no 26

SAT, Ministerialprotokoller, klokkerbøker og fødselsregistre - Nordland, 820/L0289: Ministerialbok nr. 820A10, 1826-1845, s. 92
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20071005610093


 

Endret August 8, 2020 av Randi Elisabeth Haugros

[Randi Elisabeth Haugros]

True’s father and mother are mentioned  in Bardu bygdebok. Bardu bygdebok 2, author Eystein Eggen, the book is available on net, but only for those with a norwegian IP adresses.

Embret Knutsen and Maret Olsdatter’s farm is not mentioned in BB 2. Only some of their children married in Bardu.

 

True’s sister, Marit,  in Census 1865:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038391003231

Sister Ingrid, b. 1807:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038391003389
 

Sister Kersti:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052452002002
 

Brother Knut died in 1848:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000000820389

 

Brother Ole, b 1817-12. aug. (from Tylldal bygdebok)

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038391002719

Ole married in 1841
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000000224333

Ole Ingebrigtsen Sverresvold emigrated to America in 1872:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/291/pu00000000145824

 

 

 

 

 

Endret August 9, 2020 av Randi Elisabeth Haugros

[Ken Ogren]

1 hour ago, Randi Elisabeth Haugros said:

Jacobine, b. 19. mars 1838, bap. 12. april 1838, parents Ole Chr. Olsen Kulstad and True Ingebrigtdtr. 
no 26

SAT, Ministerialprotokoller, klokkerbøker og fødselsregistre - Nordland, 820/L0289: Ministerialbok nr. 820A10, 1826-1845, s. 92
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20071005610093


 

Yes Jacobine Olsdatter was my dad's great grandmother.  Her and Jacob Nielsen's daughter Anna Nicolina 1875 emigrated to the USA to a farm that is within 2 miles as a crow flies from where I live.  She emigrated and married Jacob Nielsen 1872 also from Vefsn.  They were married in a small town near here.

Endret August 9, 2020 av Ken Ogren

[Ken Ogren]

1 hour ago, Ivar S. Ertesvåg said:

Jacob sørensen in the marriage record is a best man ("Forlover"); fathers' names are not mentioned.

14 | Jacob Jacobs. nu[now] Kulstad før[previous] Offersøen 28 | Pige True Ingebrigtsd. Offersøe[n] 29 | Ingebrigt Knuds(?) og Jacob Sørens(?) Hamnes(?) | 20de S. e. Tr[e]f[oldighet] | Tiøtøe[Tjøtta] | - | d[itto] forrettet v Hr. Walnum[name of the Vicar] |

 

I guess I was viewing this Ingebrigt Knuds(?) as True's father.  Is that a coincidence?  Was her father somehow a "best man"?

[Randi Elisabeth Haugros]

The best man to True and Jacob om 1830 was Ingebrigt Eriksen.

Look at the K om Kulstad and try to find an E om the page.

Endret August 9, 2020 av Randi Elisabeth Haugros

[Ivar S. Ertesvåg]

7 timer siden, Ken Ogren skrev:

14 | Jacob Jacobs. nu[now] Kulstad før[previous] Offersøen 28 | Pige True Ingebrigtsd. Offersøe[n] 29 | Ingebrigt Knuds(?) og Jacob Sørens(?) Hamnes(?) | 20de S. e. Tr[e]f[oldighet] | Tiøtøe[Tjøtta] | - | d[itto] forrettet v Hr. Walnum[name of the Vicar] |

 

I guess I was viewing this Ingebrigt Knuds(?) as True's father.  Is that a coincidence?  Was her father somehow a "best man"?

In the 1830 marriage record

SAT, Ministerialprotokoller, klokkerbøker og fødselsregistre - Nordland, 830/L0445: Ministerialbok nr. 830A09, 1820-1830, s. 401-402
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20071015640340

column 4 is "Hvem Forloverne": Who (are) the best men

 

I agree with Randi on "Ingebrigt Eriksen" - as the best man.  Ingebrigt and Jakob are relatively frequently used names.

 

 

[Roy Østensen]

Here is a probate after Jacob Jacobsen Kulstad, recorded 1836/1837: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/24924/313

It records his heirs as:

1) The widow, True Ingebrigtsdatter

2) His mother Karen Erichsdatter, Kulstad

3) His brother Niels Andreas Jacobsen, Røsøen

4) His brother Erich Jacobsen, Kulstad

5) His sister Marith Jacobsdatter, of Korsvigen, Tjøtta

6) His sister Maren Jacobsdatter, of Hamnes, Alstahaug, m. to Ole Benjaminsen

7) His sister Karen Jacobsdatter of Korsvigen, Tjøtta

 

The probate after True is recorded in 1879: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/57565/65

The heirs are:

1) The widower, Ole Olsen

2) The daugther Jakobine Olsdatter, Kulstad, m. to Jacob Nilsen

3) The daughter Maren Olsdatter, Bjørnå, m. to Peder Andersen

4) The daughter Oline Olsdatter, dead with children:

4.1) Nils Jørgen Mikalsen (13)

4.2) Johan Mikal Mikalsen (9)

4.3) Trine Oline Mikalsdatter (11)

 

The probate after Ole Olsen, who died on 4 April 1884 is recorded here: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/57565/291

The same children are mentioned.

[Roy Østensen]

18 hours ago, Randi Elisabeth Haugros said:

True Embretsdatter born 1799 in Tylldalen, Tynset, parents Embret Knutsen Øverbye and Maret Olsdatter Hokstad Nordstu.

Embret's father, Knut Arnesen  Øverby bought the farm Enga or Engen in Tylldal in 1769. Embret owned Enga after 1810, his father died in 1810.

In 1822 Embret sold the farm. Embret and his wife, Maret, and their 8 children went to Skoelvdalen in Målselv, Troms county.

One approach would be to search out the siblings of True, find when they died, and if they died childless, True would be mentioned with her whereabouts.

These are the 8 children of Embret and Marit mentioned in the farm book for Tylldalen:

1. True, b. 1799
2. Kirsti (b. 1802, d 28 May 1881), m. #1 to Peder Pedersen, #2 to Peder Bersvendsen, to Målselv and Balsfjord
3. Berit (b. 1804, d. 8 Jan 1839), m. 1834 to Lars Simonsen, two sons mentioned in the probate.
4. Ingrid (b. 4 Aug 1807, d. 6 Feb 1894), m. to Simon Johnsen, 3 children mentioned in the farm book
5. Marit (b. 28 Apr 1810, d. 3 Mar 1886), m. #1 to Simen Olsen Viken, #2 to John Olsen Lien, and children mentioned in the farm book
6. Karen (b. 3 Feb 1813), m. to Even Larsen Motrøen, and children mentioned in the farm book
7. Knut, b. 8 Sep 1815
8. Ole, b. 12 Aug 1817, m. to Sigrid Halvorsdatter, Rendalen, emigrated to Minnesota with his family 1 Aug 1872.

Endret August 9, 2020 av Roy Østensen

[Ivar S. Ertesvåg]

In the other thread ("tydeforum"), Ken found the correction page to the "bygdebok" of Tylldalen:  http://www.tylldalen.org/bygdeboka-bind-1.html

See section 18-1 (2).

It adds and correct some records.

 

[Roy Østensen]

16 minutes ago, Ivar S. Ertesvåg said:

In the other thread ("tydeforum"), Ken found the correction page to the "bygdebok" of Tylldalen:  http://www.tylldalen.org/bygdeboka-bind-1.html

See section 18-1 (2).

It adds and correct some records.

Indeed. And it has the connection to Jacob Jacobsen Kulstad for True. But is there any proof that this is correct?

[Randi Elisabeth Haugros]

Karen Ingebrigtsdatter’s marriage, and her children, source: Familysearch:

https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?q.givenName=Karen&q.spouseGivenName=Even&q.spouseSurname=Larsen&f.recordCountry=Norway&f.recordSubcountry=Norway%2CTroms&count=20&offset=0&m.defaultFacets=on&m.queryRequireDefault=on&m.facetNestCollectionInCategory=on
 

Karen and Even got married 1 july 1836, Ibestad, Troms.

[Randi Elisabeth Haugros]

Kirsten or Kersti Ingebrigtsdatter and Peder Pedersen got married 28. september 1834 in Ibestad.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NW8Q-FB3