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Carl-Henry Geschwind

Searching for Christoffer Andersen

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Carl-Henry Geschwind

Misposted in Spør Arkivverket: https://forum.arkivverket.no/topic/253051-searching-for-christoffer-andersen/

 

I found my great great grandfather, Jacob Christoffersen, born in 1819. The link is to his christening and birth. 

See No. 6   https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051109020462

 

I am looking for his father Christoffer Andersen and his mother Marte Jacobsdatter. Is the Christoffer Andersen in the 1801 census below the same Christoffer Andersen that is in Jacob Christoffersen’s christening and birth? Christoffer Andersen is then born in 1800.

1801 Eiker Census see 217  https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ft20090806630644

 

Also, what does “Warlof” mean at the end of Marte Jacobsdatter’s name in Jacob Christoffersen’s christening and birth?. I did not find a farm name “Warlof.”

 

Best Regards and Thanks,

 

Jay Jacobsen

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Per.H.Skaug
Posted (edited)

Here is his confirmation record September 29, 1833. It does not answer the question, but Jacob's father is said to be living at (the farm) Lillaas. Whether this is where he lived at Jacob's birth or the confirmation is not mentioned.

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/279/pk00000000940485#

 

In the transcribed version on the baptism record, Christopher Andersen is said to be a potter, living in Drammen, and Marte Jacobsdatter is living at Warlofseje, or a crofters place under the farm Warlof. Warlof is also called Varlo or Varloe.

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000001806735

 

Note that there is another mention of a potter Christoffer Andersen, who had a daughter Cathrine born in 1832. This may be a (half?) sister of Jacob Christophersen. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/327/pv00000000847720

 

It may be worth looking for her baptism, there may adittional hints there, whether this is a sibling or not.

 

 
Edited by Per.H.Skaug

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Sven Hjortland
6 timer siden, Per.H.Skaug skrev:

Note that there is another mention of a potter Christoffer Andersen, who had a daughter Cathrine born in 1832. This may be a (half?) sister of Jacob Christophersen. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/327/pv00000000847720

 

It may be worth looking for her baptism

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000002743394

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Per.H.Skaug
Posted (edited)

Looking at the original wedding record for Cathrine Christoffersdatter, it looks to me that her father is really called Christoffer Antonsen, not Christoffer Andersen. https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/5858/29898/25.

 

When i go back and look at the initial batpism record for Jacob Christophersen, I think it is also more likely that his father is named Christoffer Anthon(i)sen rather than Christopher Andersen https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/1150/76

 

The confirmation record is given here as number 13. It seems that it is Jacob who lived at Lillaas, not his father. https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/1075/6833/4

In this original record it looks like the fathers name is Christopher Andersen.

 

I think it is unlikely that there are 2 potters by the name Christopher Antonisen in Eiker at the same time, so I think it is likely that these are the same person. It also appears that Christopher Antonisen several times have had his name written or transcribed as Christopher Andersen. This may explain why Jacob Christophersens father was called Christopher Andersen in the confirmation record of Jacob Christophersen. This is obviously not conclusive, however, it appears likely to me that Jacob Christophersen is a son of the potter Christopher Antonisen who died in 1837

Edited by Per.H.Skaug

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jay jacobsen

Thank you all. There is a lot for me to sort out here. Jay

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Per.H.Skaug
Posted (edited)

If potter Christoffer Andersen in the original question is the same as potter Christoffer Antonisen (as I think is quite likely, although not proven) his family origin is known several generations back. He is of the Røgeberg family from Kongsberg, and here is his family on FamilySearch https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/K8JV-QMF, although I have no knowledge of the accuracy of the information there.

 

Apparently there is a book about the Røgeberg-Strøm family that was published in 1956, which would presumably be accessible in the National Library of Norway for those with a Norwegian IP-address (I am not one of those).

 

So far it is probably only my hypothesis that Jacob Christoffersen is son of potter Christopher Anthonisen (Røgeberg), not Christopher Andersen, because of what I think is the correct spelling at birth as well as the profession potter for both Christophers. However, it appears that his confirmation record says Christopher Andersen, not Anthonisen, so I may obviously be wrong here.

Edited by Per.H.Skaug

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jay jacobsen
14 minutes ago, Per.H.Skaug said:

If potter Christoffer Andersen in the original question is the same as potter Christoffer Antonisen (as I think is quite likely, although not proven) his family origin is known several generations back. He is of the Røgeberg family from Kongsberg, and here is his family on FamilySearch https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/K8JV-QMF, although I have no knowledge of the accuracy of the information there.

 

Apparently there is a book about the Røgeberg-Strøm family that was published in 1956, which would presumably be accessible in the National Library of Norway for those with a Norwegian IP-address (I am not one of those).

 

So far it is probably only my hypothesis that Jacob Christoffersen is son of potter Christopher Anthonisen (Røgeberg), not Christopher Andersen, because of what I think is the correct spellig at birth as well as the profession potter for both Christophers. However, it appears that his confirmation record says Christopher Andersen, not Anthonisen, so I may obviously be wrong here.

 

On Ellis Island many immigrants pronounced their name and it was written down by a clerk slightly different than what was intended and some thing like that could easily occur with formal documents like birth and wedding documents. (Handwriting was important) I think your view that the spelling may be "Anthonisen" is an interesting  option to pursue and I will review, the best I can, documents with the spelling "Anthonisen" as an option for "Andersen" in mind. I agree that there were not that many potters around and the two could easily be the same person.

Thanks for your kind consideration.

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Per.H.Skaug
Posted (edited)

Jay,

 

you may want to post the original  christening record at "tyde-forum", where you will find a group of specialists in deciphering old, cursive writing. Although I believe that it says Christopher Anthonisen at birth, I am far from an expert. https://forum.arkivverket.no/forum/7-tyding-av-skannede-kilder/

 

If I am wrong, obviously so is my tentative identifcation with your Christopher Andersen as Christopher Anthonisen Røgeberg.

 

I have not yet found any more on the identity of Marthe Jacobsdatter.

Edited by Per.H.Skaug

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Grete K. Hvidsten

Hei Per. H. Skaug - til orientering:

Min tipptippoldemor Ingeborg Andersdatter f. 29.1.1799 - død 4.3.1853 hadde et forhold til Jørgen Kristiansen Hæhre. De fikk en sønn Kristian Jørgensen født 5.5.1820 - min tippoldefar.

Deretter giftet hun seg med enkemann Hans Jørgen Madsen den 25.1.1822. Han døde 21.5.1824. 2 barn.

Så giftet hun seg med Christopher Antonisen Røgeberg  25.5.1826. Han døde 26.10.1833.

Jeg har kopier av sidene i nevnte slektsbok, men der er det så mye feil at alt må sjekkes med lupe. Kanskje dette kan være til hjelp.

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Jan Engedahl

Father mentioned in the introduction to the case, I interpret as "Christoffer Andersen i Drammen". Maybe Drammen is the right place to look for him.

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jay jacobsen
36 minutes ago, Jan Engedahl said:

Father mentioned in the introduction to the case, I interpret as "Christoffer Andersen i Drammen". Maybe Drammen is the right place to look for him.

I did receive a comment that Christoffer Andersen may be born 15 Nov 1797 in Kjemperud and I think Kjemperud is in Drammen. Thank you for your comment. Jay

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Berit Knudsen
Posted (edited)

Familysearch has a fam.tree wtih her first marriage.

Peder Larsen (1830-1876) married 9/4 1858 Eiker to Ane Cathrine Christofersdatter born 24/5 1832 Eiker and she died 8/9 1899 Loesmoen, Eiker. 8 children.

 

Her father Christopher Anthonisen Røgeberg(3/3 1794 Kongsberg - 26/2 1863) married 25/5 1826 Eiker to Ingeborg Andersdatter  - died 26/10 1833?

You will also find Christophers father and gandfather. But remember to use the churchbooks.

 

Edited by Berit Knudsen

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Anton Hagelee
Posted (edited)

Here is the Ancestry.com baptism records for several of those under discussion. They might help you find the parish records for them. 

 

Christopher Anthonjsen

 in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927

Name:Christopher Anthonjsen

Gender:Male

Birth Date:3 mar 1794

Baptism Date:13 mar 1794

Baptism Place:Kongsberg , Buskerud, Norway

Father:Anthonj Christophersen

FHL Film Number:123984

Reference ID:2:1HZM570

 

Might be the unreadable one at the top of the right hand page 

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070316630021

 

Here is the Christopher your found in the 1801 Census 

 

Christopher Andersen

 in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927

Name:Christopher Andersen

Gender:Male

Birth Date:15 nov 1797

Baptism Date:26 nov 1797

Baptism Place:Eiker, Buskerud, Norway

Father:Anders Christophersen

Mother:Berthe Syvertsdr

FHL Film Number:124103

Reference ID:2:MQ9RMJ

 

Parish record is the last record on the left page 

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061220620277

 

And there is another Christopher Andersen born in Eiker in the same year. It may be useful to check him out as well. 

 

Christopher Andersen

 in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927

Name:Christopher Andersen

Gender:Male

Birth Date:20 des 1797 (20 Dec 1797)

Baptism Date:30 des 1797 (30 Dec 1797)

Baptism Place:Eiker, Buskerud, Norway

Father:Anders Hansen

Mother:Helle Christophersdr

FHL Film Number:124103

Reference ID:2:MQ9SNT

 

Original record is the last record in 1797, found on the right hand page 

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061220620279

 

Christopher Andersen is a somewhat common name in Buskerud around 1800 which of course makes your search a bit more difficult. 

 

 

Edited by Anton Hagelee

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jay jacobsen
Posted (edited)
On 8/11/2020 at 6:05 PM, Per.H.Skaug said:

Jay,

 

you may want to post the original  christening record at "tyde-forum", where you will find a group of specialists in deciphering old, cursive writing. Although I believe that it says Christopher Anthonisen at birth, I am far from an expert. https://forum.arkivverket.no/forum/7-tyding-av-skannede-kilder/

 

If I am wrong, obviously so is my tentative identifcation with your Christopher Andersen as Christopher Anthonisen Røgeberg.

 

I have not yet found any more on the identity of Marthe Jacobsdatter.

I did send the birth/christening record for handwriting analysis. Here is the response:

 

Andersen, see also

SAKO, Eiker kirkebøker, G/Ga/L0001: Klokkerbok nr. I 1, 1814-1832, s. 114-115
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061220630260

 

There is another handwritten record with Andersen clearly written. 

Thank you for your interest and response.

Jay

Edited by jay jacobsen

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Berit Knudsen

Ang. Røgeberg

Probate record Anthoni Christophersen Røgeberg + 1796 and wife Ingeborg Thorstine With(Withe?) + 1801.

Name of guardian/s ?   https://www.digitalarkivet.no/sk20081202320140

 

A bowl dated 2/1 1831 Hougsund(Hokksund) by Ch. A. Røgeberg in 1831 https://eikerarkiv.no/pottemakeri-pa-eiker-og-i-drammensomradet/

 

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Berit Knudsen
Posted (edited)

Sorry double, but  now with new inforrmation.

 

Ang. Røgeberg

Probate record Anthoni Christophersen Røgeberg + 1796 and wife Ingeborg Thorstine With(Withe?) + 1801.

Name of guardian/s - the young children?  https://www.digitalarkivet.no/sk20081202320140

 

-Or was it  their stepfather Christopher J. Schultz,  Kongsberg?

 

A bowl signed by Ch. A. Røgeberg in 1831 https://eikerarkiv.no/pottemakeri-pa-eiker-og-i-drammensomradet

 

-18. sept. 1798 Kongsberg the widow Ingeborg Thorstine With was married to Christopher Johanesen Schultz. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070316630611

 

-Census (FT) 1801 Kongsberg  https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01058268001666   with her 3 children from her first marriage.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Berit Knudsen

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Per.H.Skaug

Jay,

 

i did look at the two different church records, including the other (clearly seen) version of Andersen. Personally, I still think it looks like that the baptism record for your person is more consistent with AnTH... than AnD..., since it looks to me like there are two loops in cursive. However, it seems the experts and everybody else is more convinced that it is Andersen, so I am probably wrong here.

 

Of course, the confirmation record clearly states Andersen, so I was probably just reading more into the spelling than I should.

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