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Need some help with translation from Vinje Bygdebok for Telemark for Vraal family in Hauklid


Larry Melander

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I am doing research on the Vraal Haukelid family from Vinje parish in Telemark county.  GENI profile family trees say that Olav Vraalsson Uppgarden was born in 1631 and was the son of Vrål Olavsen (Haukeli) and Sissel Tarjelsdatter.  It also goes on to identify his children including one of my ancestors- my ancestor Vrål Olsen (Edland/Odland)Olsen (Edland/Odland) born in 1730 in Edland.  From the start this indicates a huge problem- it says Vrål Olsen born in 1730 to a father who would have been 99 years old. 

 

I purchased copy of the Vinje og Rauland Bygdebok by Rikard Berge and found in Vol III on page 598 a description of the Vraals family in Haukelid.  I use Google Translate to do translation and it often has trouble with some of the words.  It appears to say that there was a Vraal Haukelid who "sat" on the Uppegarden farm in the first half of the 1600's.  It also says his son Olav is shown in records in 1661 in deals involving the farm and so the author believes his father must have died before that (GENI profile tree believes he died around 1657 which is consistent).  The next section is a little confusing but it appears to that in addition to the son Olav- there might have been another son named Vraal.  And that Vraal had many daughters and that Olav convinced his brother Vraal to distribute his inheritance to his sisters and their spouses. 

 

It then goes on to say that Olav (the son born in 1631) who is referred to the "elder" Olav, sold the farm in 1673 and that the family moved to Roldal around 1691.  It then appears to say there was an issue that records in 1705 show a "Vraal i Haukelid" and speculates that when the farm was sold (to Sondov Midgarden) that a tenant was left behind and may have been this Vraal.  And that this Vraal had a son Olav Vraalson who later married Sova Alvsdotter and had several children including my ancestor Vrål Olsen born in 1730 with several siblings.  This Vraal later moved to Roldal.

 

I live in America and don't have access to the digital copies of Norwegain bygdeboks- so I can't attach a scanned page.  I was hoping someone could look at the digital copy of the Vinje og Rauland Bygdebok on pages 598-599 and review it for the following:

 

1.  The first part seems to indicate that Vraal Haukelid who sat on the Uppgarden farm in the early 1600's had a son Olav and apparently also a son Vraal (who had many daughters) and also had daughters Kristi and Gunhild.  Am I reading this correctly?  Does it actually say he had the son Vraal?

2.  After the father (Vraal Haukelid) died before 1661- this son Olav sold the Uppgarden farm to Sondov Midgarden around 1673 and that a tenant was left behind who shows up in records for Uppgarden farm in 1705.  Who is that tenant?  Could it be Olav's brother Vraal??  Or is this someone new?

3.  This tenant Vraal appears to have a son- also named Olav Vraalsson who shows up in records for the farm in 1714 and 1722 and this Olav later goes on to marry Sova Alvsdotter.  Is this correct?  Am I reading this correctly.?  I'm thinking the GENI profile family tree author incorrectly believes that the Olav Vraalsson who shows up in the 1714 and 1722 records is the same Oral Vraalsson who sold the farm in 1673 and that these are different people.  

 

Appreciate your help.

 

https://www.geni.com/people/Vrål-Haukelid/6000000008214317258

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For Norwegian IP-addresses:

https://www.nb.no/items/7c29a636d3fffb9b627ab6c079bf7f98?page=609&searchText="Vinje og Rauland"

 

1: Vraal Haukelid had a son Olav and several daughters:

Kristi - married to Olav Vinje; Gunnhild m.t. Rikard Svalastoga; NN m.t. Are Torbjørnsson; NN m.t. Saaumnd Bjørnsson.

No son Vraal of Vraal is mentioned.

 

2: The tenant is still Olav Vraalson (elder), and then a Vraal, presumed to be son of Olav.

Vraal is holding the farm in 1705 (tax list), but in 1707 someone else.

In 1714 and 1722 Olav Vraalson (younger) "lyser pengemangel"; which means that he declares at the "ting" (local assembly)

that he intends to use his right ("odel") to re-purchase the property, but raight now lacks the money. This was an instrument

to maintain the right.

 

3: Right. Olav Vraalson (younger) is married to Saave Alvsdotter.

This is known to be a younger Olav; it is mentioned that he is under mature age ("umyndig") in 1714, i.e. below 25.

According tho the book, Olav and Saave had sons Vetle, born at Haara(1727) , and Vraal born at Odland (1729),

and expectedly children Liv (1732) and Halvord (1733).

 

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9 timer siden, Larry Melander skrev:

Vrål Olsen born in 1730 with several siblings.  This Vraal later moved to Roldal.

 

Hi cousin 😄

This is my 5 x great grandfather, baptized Oct. 9. 1729.

I haven't looked at this for many years and couldn't - way back when - find any confirmation to this information other than his fathers name Ole Opgaarden...:

Telemark fylke, Vinje, Nesland, Rauland i Vinje, Ministerialbok nr. I 1 (1717-1766), Fødte og døpte 1730, Side 79
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061214330086

 

My line goes:

Vraal b. 1729

Ole b. 1761

Vraal b. 1795

Margit b. 1836

Kari b. 1864

Grandfather Ottar 1899 (him and me in my profile photo)

 

I have focused on finding descendant. Where do our lines split?

 

 

Edited by Åsbjørg Susort
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Åsbjørg

Hello cousin!

 

We split at the children of Ola(Ole) b. 1760.  Vraal (b.1795) is the brother of my ancestor- Marta Olsdatter Gryting (b.1784)

 

My lineage would go-

Ola 1760

Marta 1784

Margit Knudsdatter 1816

Knud Ormsen Legard 1843-emigrates to America

Martha T. Legard 1885

Mabel Louise Larsen 1903

Lawrence Melander 1925

Me

 

I noticed you said Vraal was baptized on 9 Oct 1729- would be interested where you got that date.  I looked at digitalarkivet baptismal records and found what I believe is his and the record is recorded as having the baptism occur in what appears to be "Dom 17" which I believe means the 17th Sunday in Ordinary Time in the 1729 Liturgical calendar. I included the link to that record below.

SAKO, Vinje kirkebøker, F/Fa/L0001: Parish register (official) no. I 1, 1717-1766, p. 79
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061214330086

 

Larry Melander
 

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Ivar thanks so much.  

 

SO if I understand how you read the record- Vraal Haukelid who was the brukar of Uppegarden in the early 1600's had a son Olav Vraalsson born in 1731 who inherited the farm.  You believe it indicates that this Olav had a son Vraal who ended up as a tenant on the Uppegarden farm after his father sold it in 1691 to Sondov Midgarden.  And that this son Vraal is the one mentioned in records for the farm in 1705 but disappears after that (with the assumption he may have also moved to Roldal).  And that this Vraal had a son named Olav or Ola who is the one that is mentioned as the "younger" Olav and the one who married Sova Alvsdotter and had the children you mentioned.  YES??

 

 

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5 timer siden, Larry Melander skrev:

"Dom 17" which I believe means the 17th Sunday in Ordinary Time in the 1729 Liturgical calendar. I included the link to that record below.

"Dom 17. Trin" is 17. sunday after Trinity sunday

Link to calendar for "translation"

https://youronlineroots.com/helligdager.php

 

Checked my tree and found Margit 1816-1907 and 10 siblings. No descendants for any of them --- yet. Neverending work in progress.

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6 timer siden, Larry Melander skrev:

Ivar thanks so much.  

 

SO if I understand how you read the record- Vraal Haukelid who was the brukar of Uppegarden in the early 1600's had a son Olav Vraalsson born in 1731 1631who inherited the farm.  You believe it indicates that this Olav had a son Vraal who ended up as a tenant on the Uppegarden farm after his father sold it in 16911673 to Sondov Midgarden.  And that this son Vraal is the one mentioned in records for the farm in 1705 but disappears after that (with the assumption he may have also moved to Roldal).  And that this Vraal had a son named Olav or Ola who is the one that is mentioned as the "younger" Olav and the one who married Sova Alvsdotter and had the children you mentioned.  YES??

with the two years corrected: yes.

based on "Vinje og Rauland" vol 3. pp.598-9

 

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  • 1 year later...

I have been researching ancestors of Vraal Odland lately and checked your tree on ancestry...

Here is what I have found so far:

1. Vraal Olsen Odland

 

Born 1729 i Oppgarden (Haukelid), Vinje

Telemark county, Vinje, Nesland, Rauland in Vinje, Parish register (official) no. I 1 (1717-1766), Born and baptised 1730, Page 79

Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061214330086

 

 

Parents

2. Ole Vraalsen Opgaarden born 1700, died 1731 i Opgaarden (Haukelid), Vinje.

 

«Liig Prædikener» Jul 2. 1731 Vinje, no. 26:

Telemark county, Vinje, Nesland, Rauland in Vinje, Parish register (official) no. I 1 (1717-1766), Deceased and buried 1732, Page 144

Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061214330152

«Ole Wraalsson Opgaarden, Patr: Wraall Olsson Matr: Cicil Tarjesdatter Gl 31 aar»

 Marriage Nov. 14. 1726 i Vinje.

Telemark county, Vinje, Nesland, Rauland in Vinje, Parish register (official) no. I 1 (1717-1766), Married 1725-1730, Page 32

Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061214330056

3. Sove Alvsdatter 1698 – 1784.

 

 

Grandparents

4. Vraal Olsen Haukeli died about 1712 i Oppgarden (Haukelid), Vinje.

Telemark county, Øvre og Nedre Telemark og Bamble, Account books for bailiffs  no. 2121 (1711-1711), Document pages, Page 411

Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/rk10081303111419

Torbiorn og hans Qvinde og et barn

Een Hyrde faar til Løn Klæder

Vraal ibid: og hans Qvinde 2 Børn

 

Telemark county, Øvre og Nedre Telemark og Bamble, Account books for bailiffs  no. 2124 (1713-1713), Document pages, Page 157

Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/rk10101411170157

Gunnild och Sidsel

 

 

5. Sissel Tarjesdatter born 1665 i Bekkhus, Vinje, died 1733 i Vinje.

Buried Jun 21. 1733, Vinje, no. 22

Telemark county, Vinje, Nesland, Rauland in Vinje, Parish register (official) no. I 1 (1717-1766), Deceased and buried 1733, Page 145

Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061214330153

«Patr: Tarje Bechuus Matr: Guri Bechuus Ætat 68 Aar»

 

 

6. Alf Halvorsen died 1737, Guegaarden, Vinje.

Probate record dated Sep 9. 1737

Telemark county, Probate records no. 5 (1735-1740), Probate protocol page, Page 86b-87a

Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/sk20090115650089

 

 

7. Ragnhild Knudsdatter

 

 

 

Great grandparents

 

8. Ole Opgaarden died about 1670, Haukeli, Vinje.

Telemark county, Øvre og Nedre Telemark, Account books for bailiffs  no. 2057 (1666-1667), Document pages, Page 134

Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/rk20110504747409

Olle

 

 

 

Telemark county, Øvre og Nedre Telemark, Account books for bailiffs  no. 2060 (1671-1672), Document pages, Page 333

Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/rk10041203160334

Sandof oc Enchen

 

 

9. Kristi Lauritzdatter Edland died before 1679.

https://www.slekt.org/bmbskft1.html

78b-79b    Vinje              Avg. Lauritz Biørnnsen Edtland

           Edland             Enke: Asloug Olluffsdatter

           1666-18/10         Barn: Olle, Signuld, Olle, Biørn

            Kristi g.m. Olle Opgaarden i Haukeli

                                   Ragnild g.m. Størcker Guegaarden ibm

 

 

157a-157a Vinje           Avg. Laurids Biønsen Nordre Edtland
          Edland nordre   og hans hustru: Alsloug Olluffsdatter
          1679-8/9        Barn: Oluff, Sigvald, Lille Ollaff, Biøn
                            Kristi (død), men barn: Vraal, Knud Oluffsønner
                                                          Asloug Oluffsdatter
                            Ragnild
 

 

10. Tarje Bekkhus.

 

11. Guri Bekkhus.

 

 

 

12. Halvor Jonsen born 1627 Loftsgaarden, Børtegrend, died 1718 Midtveit, Vinje.

Buried Jun 26 1718 Vinje

Telemark county, Vinje, Nesland, Rauland in Vinje, Parish register (official) no. I 1 (1717-1766), Deceased and buried 1717-1719, Page 136

Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061214330144

Probate record Sep 14. 1718 Midtveit, Vinje

Telemark county, Probate records no. 3 (1703-1723), Probate protocol page, Page 309b-310a

Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/sk20090119670918

 

 

13. Saava Rikardsdatter døde i Midtveit, Vinje.

Probate record Sep 14. 1718 Midtveit, Vinje

"hans Igienlevende Høyaldrende Svage Kone"

 

 

14. Knud

 

15. ??

 

 

 

Great great grandparents

16. ??

 

17. ??

 

 

 

18. Laurits Bjørnsen Edland died 1666 i Edland, Vinje, Telemark.

Probate record Okt 18. 1666 Edland, Vinje, Telemark

Telemark county, Bamble, Øvre Telemark vestfjelske, Øvre Telemark østfjelske, Nedre Telemark, Probate records no. I 1 (1665-1686), Probate protocol page, Page 78b-79a
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/sk20081015650422

 

19. Aslaug Olsdatter døde 1679 i Nordre Edland, Vinje, Telemark.

Probate record Sep 8. 1679 Nordre Edland, Vinje, Telemark

Telemark county, Bamble, Øvre Telemark vestfjelske, Øvre Telemark østfjelske, Nedre Telemark, Probate records no. I 1 (1665-1686), Probate protocol page, Page 156b-157a

Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/sk20081015650500

 

 

20. ??

 

21. ??

 

 

 

22. ??

 

23. ??

 

 

 

24. Jon Aasmundsen Loftsgaarden died 1675 Loftsgården, Børtegrend, Mo.

Probate record Sep 27. 1675

Telemark county, Bamble, Øvre Telemark vestfjelske, Øvre Telemark østfjelske, Nedre Telemark, Probate records no. I 1 (1665-1686), Probate protocol page, Page 143b-144a

Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/sk20081015650487

 

 

25. Sigrid Torjusdatter (died 1675?) Loftsgården, Børtegrend, Mo.

144a-144a Mo               Avg. Jon Aasmundsen Lofftsgaarden i Bortegrend
          Loftsgården       og  kone Sigri Torgrimsdatter
          1675-27/9        Barn: Aasmund, Halffuor
                                         Ingebiør
                                 alle myndige og gifte)

 

 

26. Rikard

 

27.

 

Edited by Åsbjørg Susort
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Hi Åsbjørg.  Was reading your research.  I have a question about # 2. Ole Vraalsen Opgaarden born 1700, died 1731 i Opgaarden (Haukelid), Vinje.  You include a death record which says he died at age 31 and lists his parents.  I take it then you are disputing what is written in Vinje og Rauland Bygdebok Vol III. p. 599 which lists the children of Ole and Sova and besides Vetle and Vraal- list 2 more children- Liv and Hallvord born in 1732 and 1733 respectively.  I looked more closely at the "supposed" baptismal records for Liv and Hallvord (in the galleries in my Ancestry.com tree) and I can see for Liv her fathers name looks like Ole Admundson more than Ole Vraalson and not sure about the farm name.  For Hallvord her father appears to be from Ormkvallen and not Oppegarden.  I'm not sure I can see the connection.

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12 timer siden, Larry Melander skrev:

I take it then you are disputing what is written in Vinje og Rauland Bygdebok Vol III

 

Yes I do.

Liv's father is Ole Admundson (or Aamundson?) Ødegaarden.

Hallvord's father has no farm name. First sponsor is Knut "Ormqvalen" (Ormkvallen)

 

Check page 698: According to Rikard Berge the "proof" is there are no other sons of any Vraal in Vinje. He has missed the fact that "our" Olav Vraalson died 1731. (Looks like he has missed the different generations as well.)

 

OlavVraalson.thumb.png.969667bdf29e2c271ff1ac25c9fbfb3e.png

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Hi Åsbjørg- appreciate your research.  I also have some questions about "4. Vraal Olsen Haukeli "- who you say died about 1712 (probably born about 1660).  Looking at your records listed and the Vinje og Rauland Bygdebok- I put together the following.  I believe his father was Olav (Olle) ("the older"- born about 1631 and you say dies about 1670)- and is shown as "brukar" for Opgaarden on the tax rolls in 1661 and 1666.  About 1670 he sells the farm to Sondov Midgaarden from Rauland.  And apparently Olav (Olle) dies shortly after.  It appears that Olav ("the older") left behind a tenant- his son Vraal (#4 on your list).  Apparently Vraal remains on the farm well into the 1700's apparently as a tenant as the Midgaarden clan owns or are "brukar" of the farm.  Vraal's son Olav (Olle) ("the younger") is born (abt 1690-1700) on the farm.  The bygdebok indicates records he researched show Vraal on the farm in 1705 and also 1707 but that there were more living there.  It then indicates his son Olav shows up in records for the farm in 1714 and 1722 but indicate he didn't have the funds to acquire ownership.  Hope this agrees with the lineage you describe-.

 

You provide two links for Baliff Account books for Vraal (#4) for 1711 and 1713- I assume you are using these to support your contention that Vraal (#4) died in 1712.  The first link in 1711 lists "Torbion og hans Qvinde og et barn" and then you appear to add a comment "Vraal ibid: og hans Qvinde 2 Børn".   Not sure what statement you are making here other than Vraal is not being shown as an owner or brukar for the farrm- not sure he would show up here if he was a tenant.  You then include a second link for 1713 that your list shows a Gunnhiild og Sidsel on the farms account record.  Not sure where they show up on the record- it's a little hard for me to decipher.  Are you making a connection that Vraal's widow married Gunnhild and now shows up in the farm account records????

 

I fail to see how these links support the contention that Vraal died in 1712.  Perhaps I'm missing something obvious here.

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I have looked up all available "Account books for bailiffs" in the periode 1662 - 1713.

There are 2 "brukere" or tenants every year from 1671. Sandov oc Enchen (the widow)1671 and 1675. Then there are different names; Sandof, Biørn, Gunder , Hallvor and Joen from 1683 - 1689.

1690 - 1692 : Gunder and Vraal

1695 - 1704 : Ola and Vraal

1705 - 1711 : Torbiørn and Vraal (this is a census "Manntall" and wives, children and workers (a shepherd) are mentioned)

1713 Looks like Torbiørn and Vraal are both dead and the widows are running the farm.

 

I am now looking through Court Journals "Tingbøker" and hope to find more info.

 

 

 

 

Manntall_1711.png

Edited by Åsbjørg Susort
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My apologies.  As an American- I don't speak Norwegian and sometimes have trouble connecting names and determining if they are male or female- in this case Gunnhild.  I assume you believe Gunnhild may have been Torbiorn's widow.  And that Gunnhild and Sidsel (Sissel) were running the farm in 1713.  Also- am a little embarassed that I didn't look close enough at your linked record to realize that Vraal and his family are mentioned as brukar of the farm in 1711.  So- I see your connection for Vraal's death in 1712.  

 

Will continue to review what you have sent.  Thanks again for your work.

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No worries. Feel free to ask.

(And I am also asking myself how I could assume an American should know that "Enchen" meant "the widow." )

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Hi Åsbjørg

Another question- you provide the following excerpt from the Bamble probate records-

157a-157a  Vinje                   Avg. Laurids Biønsen Nordre Edtland
           Edland nordre           og hans hustru: Alsloug Olluffsdatter
           1679-8/9                Barn: Oluff, Sigvald, Lille Ollaff, Biøn
                                         Kristi (død), men barn: Vraal, Knud Oluffsønner
                                                                 Asloug Oluffsdatter
                                         Ragnild

I assume this is the estate of Asloug Ollufsdatter (which includes provision that had made for Asloug previously in her husbands probate in 1666.  I assume in 1666 the children may have received some of their father's estate while the balance was left for Asloug to live on.  Now that she had died the balance of the estate goes to the surviving children. 

 

Looking closely- it says Kristi had died- and then lists some children.  Do you believe these are Kristi's children???

 

 

Edited by Larry Melander
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Hi Åsbjørg

Another question regarding Jon Asmundssen's probate record.  I am not proficient at reading old Norwegian cursive- but can pick out some of the words (especially names and farms)  to get the gist of it.  I also found the probate index card for Jon (below)

 

Joen Asmundsen probate card 1675

 

I was wondering about the "+" mark after Jon's (Joen) name on the index card.  In most of my research- when I see this it usually means the person died.  From the index card I would think Sigri was still alive on this date.  I can't tell from the actual probate record whether my thoughts are valid.  Any thoughts?

 

 

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Hi cousin

Usually the + is a cross but in this case I believe it is "and" as Sigrid is not called widow. Nor in the record itself she is said to be a widow (efterlevende hustrue). I believe they are both dead.

According to "Mo bygdebok : gard og ætt. 1 : Mo sokn" the probate probably is held several years after their death, but have no reason why.

 

 

Loftsgarden_Mo.png

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På 29.1.2022 den 17.42, Larry Melander skrev:

Looking closely- it says Kristi had died- and then lists some children.  Do you believe these are Kristi's children???

Sorry I didn't see this earlier.

Yes they are her children

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