Help needed to check archive entry for Alexander Johnson

[Ian Perry]

Would someone please be able to help me to work out if record number 226 in the database here https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/1669/34 might be my great grandfather ?

He went to Australia as a sailor in the 1860s, and according to his marriage and death certificates he was born in Stavanger between 1837-1845 (most likely 1843-1845) and he gave his father’s name as John (occupation - ship’s carpenter) and mother as Ann Margaret. He used the surname Johnson in Australia, but we are not sure of his birth name – it may have been Johannesen or Jonassen or something similar.

This entry in the database is the only Alexander I could find in Stavanger about that time, but I can’t read any details. If someone could please have a quick look to say no, it isn’t him, or yes, it may be him, I would appreciate it very much.

Thankyou,

Ian Perry

[Bjarne Rosenstrøm]

The parents for 226 is :

 

"Skomagermester Lars Loa og Hustru Christine Loa"

 

"Shoemaker Lars Loa and wife Christine Loa"

 

 

[Ian Perry]

Thank you Bjarne very much. That entry is not him then. In the column to the right of that it looks like "Johannesen" but perhaps that was a witness?

 

I appreciate your help very much.

[Bjarne Rosenstrøm]

11 minutter siden, Ian Perry skrev:

In the column to the right of that it looks like "Johannesen" but perhaps that was a witness?

 

Correct: That is a list of the witnesses for the baptism.

[Ian Perry]

Thank you Bjarne - you have been a great help. Much appreciated.

[Ivar S. Ertesvåg]

 

10 timer siden, Ian Perry skrev:

He went to Australia as a sailor in the 1860s, and according to his marriage and death certificates he was born in Stavanger between 1837-1845 (most likely 1843-1845) and he gave his father’s name as John (occupation - ship’s carpenter) and mother as Ann Margaret. He used the surname Johnson in Australia, but we are not sure of his birth name – it may have been Johannesen or Jonassen or something similar.

 

Notice that "Stavanger" could be Stavanger amt , now Rogaland fylke (county)  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogaland

 

Alexander and John might be right. However, many emigrants changed their names to something more convenient at the place (language) of settlement.

"John"  might Jon, Johan, Johannes, ...  Jonas is customary in English, as well. Perhaps "Jonassen" is less convenient, and might become "Johnsen".

If "Alexander" is something else, there are several candidates. Perhaps any name in A-, except those that are

common in English (Andreas, Anders --> Andrew, etc.)

 

Endret Juni 19, 2021 av Ivar S. Ertesvåg

[Åsbjørg Susort]

???

Alexander Jørgensen born 5/12-1841, Stavanger according "Seamen rolls". Jumped ship July 1861 in Amsterdam.

Rogaland fylke, Hovedrulle nr. 1 (1860-1863), Protokollside, Side 363
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru10041101130365

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/91/pc00000000403164

 

[Åsbjørg Susort]

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000040539779

 

Rogaland county, Domkirken in Stavanger, Parish register (official) no. A 11 (1832-1856), Born and baptised 1841
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070625670627

 

Jørgen Andreasen and Rachel Talette Larsd.

 

[Anton Hagelee]

Ian 

 

I see you have a fairly detailed Tree on Ancestry.com. Some of the information there could be of value to your search here. Here is the Census from Scotland that you post. You have expressed doubt that the birth year is correct. Also the last name given there is Johannesen. I left off the long list of names on the record.

 

Also if the marriage record below is correct and he did get married in 1868, the Scotland Census may not be the right man?

 

Alex Johannesen

in the 1871 Scotland Census

Name:Alex Johannesen

Age:19

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1852

Gender:Male

Where born:Stwanger, Norway

Registration Number:282/3

Registration district:St Clement

Civil parish:Vessels

County:Angus

Occupation:Seaman

ED:Thetis

Household schedule number:1

Line:4

Roll:CSSCT1871_191

 

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/3407716:1104?ssrc=pt&tid=172401898&pid=122238182757

 

 

 

 

 

 

Endret Juni 19, 2021 av Anton Hagelee

[Anton Hagelee]

Here is his marriage record. Of some interest is that his father is listed as a ships carpenter.

 

Endret Juni 19, 2021 av Anton Hagelee

[Carl Nilsen]

22 minutter siden, Anton Hagelee skrev:

Also if the marriage record below is correct and he did get married in 1868, the Scotland Census may not be the right man?

It could, for instance, be this guy instead:

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/39411/331

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01038196008574

[Anton Hagelee]

5 hours ago, Åsbjørg Susort said:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000040539779

 

Rogaland county, Domkirken in Stavanger, Parish register (official) no. A 11 (1832-1856), Born and baptised 1841
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070625670627

 

Jørgen Andreasen and Rachel Talette Larsd.

 

There is only one Jørgen Andreasen in the 1865 Census for Stavanger. He is a widow but his occupation is listed as Tømmermand, Which is I believe a carpenter. 

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038196015278

 

 

[Åsbjørg Susort]

4 minutter siden, Anton Hagelee skrev:

There is only one Jørgen Andreasen in the 1865 Census for Stavanger. He is a widow but his occupation is listed as Tømmermand, Which is I believe a carpenter. 

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038196015278

 

 

"Tømmermand" or "Snedker"  is carpenter.

His wife Rachel Talette died 1855

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000005296625

 

167 here:

Rogaland county, Domkirken in Stavanger, Parish register (copy) no. B 9 (1850-1858), Deceased and buried 1855, Page 372
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070105320575

 

 

 

 

 

Endret Juni 19, 2021 av Åsbjørg Susort

[Anton Hagelee]

In the 1865 Census, along with Jørgen Andreaen is his son Lars Tomas born in 1847. Here is the baptism of Lars Tomas and his father is Jørgen and his mother is Rakel Tallte. 

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000036603362

 

So I think the Jørgen Andreasen found in the 1865 is the same man as the father of Alexander found by Åsbjørg Susort. And he is a carpenter.  But the parents names are not a very good fit.

Endret Juni 19, 2021 av Anton Hagelee

[Åsbjørg Susort]

Census 1875 with youngest son Jørgen Andreas Rikard Jørgensen

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052248000856

 

Cannot find his death and burial and info about children in "Dødsfallsprotokoll" 😒

[Anton Hagelee]

There are three John Johnsen in the 1865 census for Stavanger with a birth year that would work for a man born about 1841. . But none of them have a wife with a name even close to Ann Margaret. Nor are they carpenters. 

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038196009928

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038196015678

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038196007785

 

 

 

 

[Ian Perry]

10 hours ago, Ivar S. Ertesvåg said:

 

 

Notice that "Stavanger" could be Stavanger amt , now Rogaland fylke (county)  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogaland

 

Alexander and John might be right. However, many emigrants changed their names to something more convenient at the place (language) of settlement.

"John"  might Jon, Johan, Johannes, ...  Jonas is customary in English, as well. Perhaps "Jonassen" is less convenient, and might become "Johnsen".

If "Alexander" is something else, there are several candidates. Perhaps any name in A-, except those that are

common in English (Andreas, Anders --> Andrew, etc.)

 

Great information, thank you very much Ivar.

[Ian Perry]

Author

Posted just now

  10 hours ago, Ivar S. Ertesvåg said:

 

 

Notice that "Stavanger" could be Stavanger amt , now Rogaland fylke (county)  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogaland

 

Alexander and John might be right. However, many emigrants changed their names to something more convenient at the place (language) of settlement.

"John"  might Jon, Johan, Johannes, ...  Jonas is customary in English, as well. Perhaps "Jonassen" is less convenient, and might become "Johnsen".

If "Alexander" is something else, there are several candidates. Perhaps any name in A-, except those that are

common in English (Andreas, Anders --> Andrew, etc.)

 

Expand  

Great information, thank you very much Ivar.

[Ian Perry]

3 hours ago, Anton Hagelee said:

Ian 

 

I see you have a fairly detailed Tree on Ancestry.com. Some of the information there could be of value to your search here. Here is the Census from Scotland that you post. You have expressed doubt that the birth year is correct. Also the last name given there is Johannesen. I left off the long list of names on the record.

 

Also if the marriage record below is correct and he did get married in 1868, the Scotland Census may not be the right man?

 

Alex Johannesen

in the 1871 Scotland Census

Name:Alex Johannesen

Age:19

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1852

Gender:Male

Where born:Stwanger, Norway

Registration Number:282/3

Registration district:St Clement

Civil parish:Vessels

County:Angus

Occupation:Seaman

ED:Thetis

Household schedule number:1

Line:4

Roll:CSSCT1871_191

 

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/3407716:1104?ssrc=pt&tid=172401898&pid=122238182757

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Anton, you are likely correct. That Scottish census record is probably a different guy. Thankyou for all your help.

[Ian Perry]

9 hours ago, Åsbjørg Susort said:

???

Alexander Jørgensen born 5/12-1841, Stavanger according "Seamen rolls". Jumped ship July 1861 in Amsterdam.

Rogaland fylke, Hovedrulle nr. 1 (1860-1863), Protokollside, Side 363
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru10041101130365

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/91/pc00000000403164

 

 

Yes, thankyou for the idea of the Seaman's Rolls.🙂

[Ian Perry]

3 hours ago, Carl Nilsen said:

It could, for instance, be this guy instead:

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/39411/331

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01038196008574

 

That may be the guy in the Scottish census then?

[Carl Nilsen]

3 minutter siden, Ian Perry skrev:

That may be the guy in the Scottish census then?

Seems like a decent candidate. Born 1851 in Stavanger, and serving on ships going to the UK in the 1870s. 

[Ian Perry]

4 minutes ago, Carl Nilsen said:

Seems like a decent candidate. Born 1851 in Stavanger, and serving on ships going to the UK in the 1870s. 

 

Agree. I thought when I found that record that perhaps his age was recorded incorrectly. If he was 29 then that would fit perfectly.

[Åsbjørg Susort]

13 timer siden, Åsbjørg Susort skrev:

Cannot find his death and burial and info about children in "Dødsfallsprotokoll" 😒

Jørgen Andreassen died 1/8-1898, 85 years old., «fattiglem» => poor, no family mentioned

Rogaland county, Stavanger, Death register no. B 2 (1894-1902), Death protocol page, Page 66

Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/sk10511304150069

[Ian Perry]

20 minutes ago, Åsbjørg Susort said:

Jørgen Andreassen died 1/8-1898, 85 years old., «fattiglem» => poor, no family mentioned

 

Rogaland county, Stavanger, Death register no. B 2 (1894-1902), Death protocol page, Page 66

 

Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/sk10511304150069

 

 

So Jørgen could be a possible father for Alexander? Would John be a possible English version of this name? I'll keep this in mind as it is a surname Andreassen that has appeared in DNA hints that I get through My Heritage. I get many many matches through My Heritage, the most common are Hana, Hetland, Heian, Mydland, Kolnes.