Fire oversettelsesspørsmål fra norsk til engelsk (Bergen Newspapers 1902-1919)

[Johan Stenslie]

I’m not sure if this is the best forum to reach out for translation questions, but I would greatly appreciate any help.

 

PERSON BEING RESEARCHED:

Karl Johan Einarsen (f. 29 May 1854 i Bergen - d. 23 Sep 1919 i Bergen)

 

QUESTION 1:

I believe I understand what this translates to, but what does it exactly mean? I know that Asylpladseb 2b is her family’s address. Is this a job advertisement or is she trying to find her place?

“En Smaapige i Konfirmationsalderen kan star faa Plads.

Einarsen, Asylpladsen 2 b.”

 

QUESTION 2:

How would I translate the bolded and underlined section into English?

 

“I det gamle Theaterhus gjaldt det ved Dekorationsforandringer og Ordning af Scenen — det maa jo ske i et Tempo, som der ikke klæber det allerringeste kommunalt ved — at have en sterk Ryg og kraftige Arme, og begge Dele har Einarsen, det har vist sig saavel i den gamle Bygning som i den nye.”

 

QUESTION 3:

This article makes reference to an interaction that my ancestor Karl Johan Einarsen had with the King. Can someone check to make sure the English translation is well written? My most serious confusion comes from the last line which seems to use an expression that I don’t know the meaning of.

 

[Original Norwegian]

“Nu en Tid har Einarsen ligget paa Sygehuset — Maskineriet var blevet lidt vel slidt; men han haaber paa og længes bare efter at komme i Theaterluften igjen trods sine snart 70. Hr. Einarsen er en meget ligetil Mand. Man fortæller, at da Kongen ved Indvielsen i 1909 af det nye Theater i en Mellemakt var inde paa Scenen for at studere Stellet lidt nærmere, og der oppefra kom dalende ned noget, hvad det nu .var, ret over Kongens Hoved, sagde Einarsen, der stod lige ved Kongen, ganske roligt: ‘Nu faar De flytte paa Dem, Deres Majestæt. for ellers faar De Donderen deise meg en Trøk Sexten i Skolten!’”

 

[English Translation]

“For some time now Einarsen has been in the hospital - the machinery had become a little worn; but he hopes and longs to get back in the theater air, despite his soon to be 70. Mr. Einarsen is a very straightforward man. It is said that when the King at the inauguration in 1909 of the new Theater in between two acts was on stage to take a closer look at the stage, and from above something descended, whatever it was, right over the King's head, Einarsen, who was standing right next to the king, said quite calmly: ‘Now you may move on, Your Majesty. for otherwise De Donderen will give me a blow of sixteen in Skolten!’”

 

QUESTION 4:

In the line below, what does “ds.” and “B.A.E.” stand for?

 

“Begravelsen foregaar fra Solheims kapel mandag 29de ds. Ceremonien begynder kl. 12.40. (B.A.E.)”

 

LINKS FOR THE ARTICLES REFERENCED:

Question 1:

“En Konfirmeret Løbergut.” Bergens Annonce Tidene, 7 August 1902, p. 3

https://www.nb.no/items/3e2a84059a8a60f519c8b52e6cc5a4fa?page=1&searchText=Steffen%20Einarsen

Question 2 & 3:

"40 Aar." Bergens Aftenblad, 6 February 1917, p. 1

https://www.nb.no/items/b24cfebb76eba718e54b0f9656d77be3?page=0&searchText=Oscar%20Einarsen 

Question 4:

“Dødsfald. Carl Johan Einarsen.” Arbeidet [Bergen, Norway] 27 September 1919, p. 10

https://www.nb.no/items/74f7915e81699b83fe8bde7ad724e585?page=9&searchText=Maskinmester%20Carl%20Einarsen 

[Ivar Moe]

 

45 minutter siden, Johan Stenslie skrev:

for ellers faar De Donderen deise meg en Trøk Sexten i Skolten!’”

 

Hi Johan

 

This is a local expression meant in a funny way i think.

"Trøk Sexten i Skolten" could   be translated as " or you will get a  real bang against your skull/head"

De Donderen altso a local thing. So-called power expression. Today we would have use for example "for God's sake" etc.

 

So - "for gods sake you better get away before you get your skull smashed"

 

Im sure there will be others her that can explain it better. The rest of the translation in this chapter works well.

 

Brg

Ivar

Endret November 17, 2021 av Ivar Moe

[Ivar S. Ertesvåg]

45 minutter siden, Johan Stenslie skrev:

I’m not sure if this is the best forum to reach out for translation questions, but I would greatly appreciate any help.

 

PERSON BEING RESEARCHED:

Karl Johan Einarsen (f. 29 May 1854 i Bergen - d. 23 Sep 1919 i Bergen)

 

QUESTION 1:

I believe I understand what this translates to, but what does it exactly mean? I know that Asylpladseb 2b is her family’s address. Is this a job advertisement or is she trying to find her place?

“En Smaapige i Konfirmationsalderen kan star faa Plads.

Einarsen, Asylpladsen 2 b.”

 

 

 

LINKS FOR THE ARTICLES REFERENCED:

Question 1:

“En Konfirmeret Løbergut.” Bergens Annonce Tidene, 7 August 1902, p. 3

https://www.nb.no/items/3e2a84059a8a60f519c8b52e6cc5a4fa?page=1&searchText=Steffen%20Einarsen

 

"En Smaapige i Konfirmationsalderen kan strax faa Plads."

 

literally: a small girl in confirmation age can get a place (job) immediately

(does 15-16 year old girls regard themselves as "small"...?)

It si a job adverticement for a servant maid/girl, presumably in the home of a family.

 

[Jon Anders Holtan]

Hi Johan,

 

I can offer some help. Others will probably add to this.

 

Question 1

“En Smaapige i Konfirmationsalderen kan star faa Plads.

Einarsen, Asylpladsen 2 b.”

 

The original text is actually "... kan strax faa Plads. ..."

It means approximately

"A young girl around the age of confirmation (15 years) can have a position immediately."

 

 

Question 2

"det maa jo ske i et Tempo, som der ikke klæber det allerringeste kommunalt ved"

"it needs to happen at a pace which is not in the slightest connected to the municipal way"

The joke is that municipal workers are very slow.

 

 

[Ivar Moe]

53 minutter siden, Johan Stenslie skrev:

“En Konfirmeret Løbergut

 

confirmed delivery boy. (Delivery bids for the city's merchants like todays Pizza delivery)

Endret November 17, 2021 av Ivar Moe

[Jon Anders Holtan]

"ds" is short for "det samme", meaning "the same", in this case the same month, September.

[Ivar S. Ertesvåg]

57 minutter siden, Johan Stenslie skrev:

QUESTION 2:

How would I translate the bolded and underlined section into English?

 

“I det gamle Theaterhus gjaldt det ved Dekorationsforandringer og Ordning af Scenen — det maa jo ske i et Tempo, som der ikke klæber det allerringeste kommunalt ved — at have en sterk Ryg og kraftige Arme, og begge Dele har Einarsen, det har vist sig saavel i den gamle Bygning som i den nye.”

 

this translation is tricky.

 

first, "kommunalt" = municipal (pertaining to administration, operation and maintainence of the town)

The phrase is based on the notion that municipal workers are working slowly (or not at all).

 

Something like

- after all, it has to take place at a speed, to which nothing municipal sticks to -

The main content is that this work (change of scene in the theatre) has to be done very fast.

 

 

 

Endret November 17, 2021 av Ivar S. Ertesvåg

[Matthias Kolberg]

14 minutes ago, Ivar Moe said:

 

De Donderen altso a local thing. So-called power expression. Today we would have use for example "for God's sake" etc.

 "Donderen deise meg" literally means "Thunder strike me", influenced by Dutch or German.

It is an expletive, used here to express an element of surprise.

[Matthias Kolberg]

After checking some Bergen newspapers from the time, I conclude that B.A.E. is an abbreviation for "Bergens Annonse Ekspedition", a newspaper ad agency

 

(I have corrected an earlier version of this post)

Endret November 17, 2021 av Matthias Kolberg

[Matthias Kolberg]

Apparently, "trøk sexten" is a book printer’s expression, as it refers to the amount of pressure that has to be applied to a printing plate of 16 pages using a hand press.

https://www.riksmalsforbundet.no/qa_faqs/trokk-16/

https://ordnet.dk/ddo/ordbog?query=trykseksten

Endret November 17, 2021 av Matthias Kolberg

[Johan Stenslie]

1 hour ago, Ivar S. Ertesvåg said:

"En Smaapige i Konfirmationsalderen kan strax faa Plads."

 

literally: a small girl in confirmation age can get a place (job) immediately

(does 15-16 year old girls regard themselves as "small"...?)

It si a job adverticement for a servant maid/girl, presumably in the home of a family.

 

Does this mean that Einarsen is offering a job or that one of his daughters is looking for a job?

[Ivar S. Ertesvåg]

Akkurat nå, Johan Stenslie skrev:

Does this mean that Einarsen is offering a job or that one of his daughters is looking for a job?

Einarsen is offering a job.

[Ivar Moe]

54 minutter siden, Matthias Kolberg skrev:

Apparently, "trøk sexten" is a book printer’s expression, as it refers to the amount of pressure that has to be applied to a printing plate of 16 pages using a hand press.

I do not "buy" this. I think this is a local Bergen expression, connected to boxing  sport or the old way of settling a fist fight.

I think Matthias is looking into a Danish translation built on assumptions.

 

Brg

Ivar

[Olaf Larsen]

I am born and raised in Oslo, and we kids definitely did not use expressions from Bergen! Pfuuyy!!

To be given "en trøkk seksten" meant to be given a serious punch or blow, and as Ivar Moe says, it is probably related to boxing, but on the national or international scene. I think there may have been a specific fight where an opponent went down for sixteen seconds. A knock-out victory in boxing is defined after an opponent is knocked down for 10 seconds, so remaining on the floor for 16 seconds indicate a serious punch! He was given "en trøkk seksten". Among us kids it was mostly used as a threat: You'd better be careful, if you don't want to get "en trøkk seksten"! 🙂

[Matthias Kolberg]

7 hours ago, Ivar Moe said:

I do not "buy" this. I think this is a local Bergen expression, connected to boxing  sport or the old way of settling a fist fight.

I think Matthias is looking into a Danish translation built on assumptions.

 

Brg

Ivar

I added two links, the first one to Riksmålsforbundet, where the well known linguist, Tor Guttu (University of Oslo), provided the explanation about the book print. 
The expression is at least 200 years old, and hardly derived from an internationally known boxing match.

The Danish dictionary confirmes his view.

This is also cited by Språkrådet

https://www.sprakradet.no/svardatabase/sporsmal-og-svar/trykk-seksten/

 

If you have handled a manual printing press, you get a very clear ‘impression’ of kind of hit is needed to print a 16 page plate. 
 

 

Endret November 18, 2021 av Matthias Kolberg

[Ivar S. Ertesvåg]

7 timer siden, Ivar Moe skrev:

I do not "buy" this. I think this is a local Bergen expression, connected to boxing  sport or the old way of settling a fist fight.

I think Matthias is looking into a Danish translation built on assumptions.

 

 - do they say "trøkk" in Bergen - in other instances?  Not "trykk"?

"trøkk" sounds like imported to Bergen from eastern Norway/Oslo.  

 

Matthias' explanation is plausible. An old phrase used disconnected from its origin for generations, and

also imported in this form to Bergen.

[Ivar Moe]

Alt for mange dårlige eller svakt begrunnede hypoteser vedrørende gamle norske uttrykk, og for letthetskyld ser man på hva danskene har funnet ut og kjøper det uten å blunke. Trist men typisk norsk.

Norsk språkråd burde vært nedlagt forlengst, kun en forstyrrende amøbe som staten må betale for. 

 

Min mening

Mvh

Ivar

[Ivar Moe]

Ordbog over det danske Sprog seier:

trykseksten [...] [tr̥øgˈsaisd(ə)n] (ofte skrevet -sejsten) [...] (af usikker oprindelse; 1. led er vel trykke 1 (jf. sv. tryckare, slag), 2. led II. seksten; muligvis egentlig et bogtrykkerord, om det kraftige tryk, der krævedes for med en haandpresse at trykke et oktavark paa 16 sider (?)

Merk at det heiter trykken, ikkje trykket, i denne samanhengen. Det gjeld både norsk og dansk.

 

På norsk skal det skrivast i to ord: trykk seksten. Ein ser det òg skrive med siffer: trykk 16. Det er så vanleg å skriva (og seia) trøkk med ø at det snautt kan kallast ein feil. Ø-en har støtte både i dansk uttale og i det norske trykk i tydinga 'slag’, som helst blir uttala med ø, jf. å få seg ein trøkk. Ordlaget trykk seksten er vorte sterkt knytt til denne tydinga av trykk.

[Ivar Moe]

38 minutter siden, Ivar Moe skrev:

På norsk skal det skrivast i to ord: trykk seksten. 

 

Det SKAL. Det sier jo det meste. Her har det allerede gått over alle støvleskaft ( så kan man jo tenke seg hva danskene sa om den saken)

[Olaf Larsen]

Sitat

...muligvis egentlig et bogtrykkerord...

The word "muligvis" translates to maybe or possibly, which means the authors of "Ordbog over det danske Sprog" didn't know either, so they made a suggestion, which has the same value as all other suggestions!

 

Sitat

jf. å få seg ein trøkk

Ifølge nye staveregler fra vårt fantastiske språkråd, kan jo det også tolkes dithen at en person med 'trøkkførerbevis', nå har fått seg et passende kjøretøy...😄

Endret November 23, 2021 av Olaf Larsen