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Vardal traveller family origins, and origins of some of the wives? / Vardalsreisende familie opphav, og opphav til noen av konene?


Lauren Reinertsen

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Jeg er fra Amerika, og jeg kan ikke norsk. Beklager! Jeg bruker Google oversetter.

 

Jeg leter etter informasjon om opprinnelsen til den reisende Vardal-familien. Faren min er en direkte farsetterkommer av vardalingene. Er de etniske nordmenn? I dag omtales de som «tatere», men de ser ut til å være etnisk norske reisende. Forfatteren Martin Skou sier han er halvt «vardøler». Skou beskriver vardalingene som ikke å være tatere.

 

Er vardalingene knyttet til skogfinnene? De kommer opprinnelig fra Østlandet, men vardalingene ble senere knyttet til Vestlandet.

 

Finnes det opplysninger om noen av de tidlige kvinnene i Vardal-familien? Som Kari Grå, f. 1674, mor til Rasmus Jensen Vardal, eller hans kone Karen Margrethe Pedersdatter?

 

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I am from America, and I do not know Norwegian. Sorry! I am using Google translate.

 

I am looking for information on the origins of the traveller Vardal family. My father is a direct paternal descendent of the Vardals. 

Are they ethnic Norwegians? Today they are referred to as "Taters", but they appear to be ethnic Norwegian travellers.  The author Martin Skou says he is half "Vardøler". Skou describes the Vardals as not being Taters.

 

Are the Vardals connected to the Forest Finns? They originally come from Eastern Norway, but the Vardals later came to be associated with Western Norway. 

 

Is there any information on some of the early women of the Vardal family? Like Kari Grå, b. 1674, mother of Rasmus Jensen Vardal, or his wife Karen Margrethe Pedersdatter?

 

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  • 4 months later...

Please note that there are many wrong / unverified statements in the link referred to above, so should be read with caution 😉  Jonny

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  • 3 months later...

I have tried to figure out this myself. I am related to some them. And to be honest I have no Idea. They either had close connections with the travellers, or they were travellers and "chose" not to "travel" anymore from my understanding. I know some "tatere" are married to into that family, and not even they know for sure.

Edited by Akasie
Edited because of to much information that may be sensitive.
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On 9/23/2022 at 7:18 AM, Christoffer Olsen said:

I have tried to figure out this myself. I am related to some them. And to be honest I have no Idea. They either had close connections with the travellers, or they were travellers and "chose" not to "travel" anymore from my understanding. I know some "tatere" are married to into that family, and not even they know for sure.

Thank you for the information, we are probably distant relatives! My ancestors stopped traveling in the 1800s but we’re identified as “Fante folk” for another generation or 2. I’ve done some more reading on the family and it seems Sundt referred to them as “skøyere” and so did an author Skou who was related to the Vardal’s but also tateres. I wonder if they may have more distant tatere ancestry because they are originally from Eastern Norway like many tatere families and married into tatere families. There definitely seems to be some conflicting information online regarding their origins as there is a memorial for Rasmus Jensen Vardal and it is written in scando-romani. I imagine many modern romanisæl in Norway descend from the Vardals but the Vardals may not be romani in origin. Unfortunately, we may never know the truth! 
 

my dad is a direct paternal descendent of the Vardals and his haplogroup is RM-417 (R1a). This one is pretty common in Norway so the paternal line was likely Norwegian in origin. 

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That might be and probably is true. And as you said no one will probably ever know. If no one will tell us. And it might be a reason for that. I am just a little sceptical to the haplogroup group thing.

 

I don't think it matters beyond a certain point. There is one thing to find family and trying to find relatives through DNA. And beeing interested in the history of Travellers and connections to your own family. Which I really am.

 

But I highly doubt a haplogroup will help you find your extended family in Norway. You already know these families are related to some of these other families. So they would have the same one? What they once were called or what their relatives identify as today if anything. I don't see how it matters beyond an interest of your own family you know? Going into haplogroups for this minority group to me seems like going into dangerous territory. And up to the people who belong fully to the group, not only having relatives who once were, but also being part of the culture and families today. But that is my opinion of course. And I of course can't speak for these people of this culture today. As your dad took a DNA test to find his haplogroup, there is probably a possibility to ask for somone to compare,  if it is very important to you.

 

Sorry, if that in any way sounded harsh. And I understand your interest on this matter and how it relates to your own family.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Christoffer Olsen said:

That might be and probably is true. And as you said no one will probably ever know. If no one will tell us. And it might be a reason for that. I am just a little sceptical to the haplogroup group thing.

 

I don't think it matters beyond a certain point. There is one thing to find family and trying to find relatives through DNA. And beeing interested in the history of Travellers and connections to your own family. Which I really am.

 

But I highly doubt a haplogroup will help you find your extended family in Norway. You already know these families are related to some of these other families. So they would have the same one? What they once were called or what their relatives identify as today if anything. I don't see how it matters beyond an interest of your own family you know? Going into haplogroups for this minority group to me seems like going into dangerous territory. And up to the people who belong fully to the group, not only having relatives who once were, but also being part of the culture and families today. But that is my opinion of course. And I of course can't speak for these people of this culture today. As your dad took a DNA test to find his haplogroup, there is probably a possibility to ask for somone to compare,  if it is very important to you.

 

Sorry, if that in any way sounded harsh. And I understand your interest on this matter and how it relates to your own family.

 

 

I understand what you are saying. I know I don’t belong to this group, and I should be more sensitive speaking about the topic. I understand genealogy as a hobby is not the same as belonging to a particular group. 
 

I did not mean to say that people in this group would have the same haplogroup. Just that the paternal line inherits the same y haplogroup, and anyone else paternally descended from this line would have the same one as my dad and that it’s common in Norway in general.  I didn’t mean to tread into dangerous territory, I apologize for being insensitive. I will not look for the answer anymore as it’s not very important. Thank you! 

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The RM-417 (R1a) Haplogroup is so common in Norway that it is difficult to make any conclusions from it. According to this site it amounts to more than 20% of the current Norwegian population. 

 

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml

 

I have been tested on FamilyTree DNA and am one of the sub-clades of R1a. My oldest know direct male ancestor is Syvert Torjussen Herefoss, born about 1590. Herefoss is a village in Birkenes, Agder. 

 

The male family line remained in Agder fylke until my grandfather left Norway in 1888.

 

It was both interesting and useful to have used Y-haplogroup testing to confirm by DNA testing what I had learned through parish records and bygdbøker. But beyond that I have not found a lot of use for the information. 

Edited by Anton Hagelee
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1 hour ago, Anton Hagelee said:

The RM-417 (R1a) Haplogroup is so common in Norway that it is difficult to make any conclusions from it. According to this site it amounts to more than 20% of the current Norwegian population. 

 

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml

 

I have been tested on FamilyTree DNA and am one of the sub-clades of R1a. My oldest know direct male ancestor is Syvert Torjussen Herefoss, born about 1590. Herefoss is a village in Birkenes, Agder. 

 

The male family line remained in Agder fylke until my grandfather left Norway in 1888.

 

It was both interesting and useful to have used Y-haplogroup testing to confirm by DNA testing what I had learned through parish records and bygdbøker. But beyond that I have not found a lot of use for the information. 

Yes, I think it was misunderstood that I was trying to connect with people through a shared haplogroup, which I’m not. That was sort of the point I was trying to make, that it is a commom Norwegian haplogroup. And that any male paternally descended from a male from the Vardal family would have the same one.
 

It was supposed to just be information for anyone else who was a paternal descendent. I understand that it’s not something that is used to find relatives and that it is a common haplogroup. the only conclusion I was making was that it is a common Norwegian haplogroup, but other male paternal descendents on the forums might appreciate the info.
 

the Vardal family are historically travelers but their origins are  disputed. I was trying to explain that I’m aware the paternal line is Norwegian and believe the family is historically Norwegian. 

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