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Request for help locating great-grandfather in Larvik in mid-1800s


Louise Ober

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Subsequently there should be a chance of finding him in the census of 1850 since the official date of the census was June 1, 1850. However, completed census forms indicate that the surveys continued to be made throughout the rest of the year (Source; Wikipedia). I have not found a William H Brown in MA or NY in 1850 that fits. The reason for not locating him in 1850, 1855 (or even 1860) is probably because he went by another name. 

 

Could it not also be that he moved from one place which had not been surveyed yet, to somewhere which had been?
If he had just recently come from Norway, he probably would not have settled properly yet. He might have lived for a few weeks or months in one place, then found another job and relocated to be cloesr to it. Or found a new room for hire which suited his pockets better.

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2 minutter siden, Gry.Onarheim.Dahlmo skrev:

None of you have checked "Norwegian immigrants to the United States : a biographical directory 1825-1850" ?

 

Checked. Nothing that fits as far as I could see, but please check for yourself, I could have missed something.....

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I'll find this one then. Even if the year of birth does not match, there may not be many by the name of William Brown who emigrated to the United States in 1850

 

Page 1

image.png.42a51a9c3e225f87881813623b52f5e9.png

Edited by Ivar Moe
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3 minutter siden, Ivar Moe skrev:

I'll find this one then. Even if the year of birth does not match, there may not be many by the name of William Brown who emigrated to the United States in 1850

 

I doubt he made himself 15 years older, but who knows? 

 

Question is; what name did he actually travel by? Here's my two pennies; I think he changed his name in US.....

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1 hour ago, Egil Johannessen said:

 

 

Question is; what name did he actually travel by? Here's my two pennies; I think he changed his name in US....

 

I tend to agree with Egil on this one. 

 

Of a small sample size of one, the tale of my grandfather and his name is illustrative 

 

He left Åmli, Agder as Aanon Olsen Høgeli in 1888. He was  16 years old.

 

Nr. 1 

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060509150486

 

He left Kristiansand as Aanen Skjæggedal.  Skjæggedal being the next farm down valley where he probably worked before leaving. 

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8/pe00000000270599

 

He arrived in New York as Olsen Skieggerdal through Bremen, Germany on a ship called Ems

 

Finding his arrival was a years long project.

 

In Minnesota he used Anton Hagelee. 

 

His two brothers became a Hogelee and a Hogeli

 

 

Edited by Anton Hagelee
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20 hours ago, Egil Johannessen said:
1. In your first post Louise, you wrote; "when he arrived in the US in 1850, he used the name William Henry Brown". I cannot see any sources presented using the name Henry, only H. Additionally, I've looked through various sources on Ancestry and FS regarding marriage, census', children's birth & death registration, naturalization etc. and he is only listed with an H, not Henry. Maybe I'm "blind", but where have you found the name Henry? Please, enlighten us.

Good question!  In going through my sources, I find no place where the middle letter H is written out as Henry. At some point I probably just assumed William’s middle name was Henry, because his father’s name was listed as Henry in the 1861 Ashby marriage records,  and also because he named his oldest son Henry H. Brown.  But your deduction makes great sense and seems to fit the current narrative of his life – the H could certainly have stood for Hans or Hansen!  Thank you, Egil. 

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20 hours ago, Egil Johannessen said:
In 1860 (LINK), there's however one other William Brown from Norway, living in Gloucester, born ca 1832, fisherman (Ancestry has wrongly transcribed him as born in Nova Scotia - scanned original states Norway, FS has it correct). This could be your great-grandfather. But where was he in 1855? 
 
The information he submitted in the Petition in 1869, was that he arrived in New York in March 1850. Subsequently there should be a chance of finding him in the census of 1850 since the official date of the census was June 1, 1850. However, completed census forms indicate that the surveys continued to be made throughout the rest of the year (Source; Wikipedia). I have not found a William H Brown in MA or NY in 1850 that fits. The reason for not locating him in 1850, 1855 (or even 1860) is probably because he went by another name. 
 
There's a Hantz Hanson, 18 years (born ca 1832), mariner, in the 1850 census NY (census date 11 or 16th September - LINK). Could this be Hans Hansen Lindhjem? Could it be that he changed his name to William H Brown, the  being Hans or Hansen?

So I think what has been painstakingly found by this forum, is either: (1) Hans Hansen (Lindhjem) could have first arrived in New York in 1850 (in 1869, nearly 20 years later, William Brown remembered the month being "March" for his Citizenship Petition, but the Bark Admiral Peter Tordenskiold from Larvik reached NY on June 11) in plenty of time to be part of the September 1850 New York Census that Egin found, using a name close to his real name, like "Hantz Hanson," OR (2) Hans left Larvik/Tjolling for Arendal in the 1848/49 time frame, then sailed to Boston on the Bark Bellona arriving September 5, 1850.

 

In either case (New York or Boston), Hans at some point ended up in the Boston area and along the way changed his name to William Brown (perhaps adding the "H" to incorporate his "real" name). 

As to his whereabouts from 1850-1860, we are not sure. We have the distinct possibility that in 1860 Hans was the Norwegian "William Brown" listed in the June 18, 1860 Gloucester census (the link you provided above). His listed age 28 would have been consistent with someone born in 1832. 

 

One question: I am not sure I understand why it is not possible that Hans is also the 22-year old Norwegian "William Brown" listed in the August 25, 1855 Gloucester census? Hans/WB would have been approx. 22 in 1855, so that fits. (I realize WB is listed next to a 27 year old Jacob Brown, but couldn't these be different people from the William and Jacob who appear together with "James Brown" in a different 1860 Gloucester census (July 28), since they have inconsistent ages: William (age 34) and Jacob (age 30)?)

 

The answer may be unclear, but it makes sense to me that Hans/William may have found his way to Gloucester, Mass by 1855. While I have not yet been to Larvik, but from the pictures the landscape/seascape appears similiar to what I know to be the coast of Gloucester, Mass. It seems many young Norwegian fishermen and sailors may have settled there and created a supportive immigrant community in this period.  😀

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14 hours ago, Inger Hohler said:

 

Could it not also be that he moved from one place which had not been surveyed yet, to somewhere which had been?
If he had just recently come from Norway, he probably would not have settled properly yet. He might have lived for a few weeks or months in one place, then found another job and relocated to be cloesr to it. Or found a new room for hire which suited his pockets better.

It seems very possible to me that he would have wandered from place to place for awhile without settling down, and may not be easily traceable from 1850-1860. 

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21 hours ago, Egil Johannessen said:
 
If we take a look at the obituary @Sven Hjortland found, it has an interesting paragraph (LINK to Dagbladet 28th March 1885 - different newspaper than Sven found, but same text & easier to read). "Ligesom han ikke var syg før i den sidste tid, bevarede han ogsaa sine Aandsevner til det sidste, saa han lige til for faa Aar siden selv skrev brev til sin Søn i Amerika". Quick translation; "He wasn't ill until recently and retained his mental ability through till the end. It was only a few years ago he wrote letters to his son in America". So, there was definitely communication between father (+ family in Norway) and son, thus it makes sense his son (Hans Hansen aka William Brown?) went to see the family in 1885. Hans Sørensen Lindhjem died 16th March, and William Brown travelled back 6th August 1885. 

This is so interesting, thank you, Egil, for the additional detail from the obituary Sven found about Hans's correspondence with his "son." It suggests a desire and opportunity for WB to return to Larvik in 1885. It is still puzzling to me why they would not have included the name of the son in any of the articles, especially if the family knew who and where he was in America?  Was it maybe out of embarrassment because Hans had changed his name? Or if they had written his original name (Hans Hansen), would that have raised questions about the circumstances of his departure in 1850 (although as Inger points out, that would have been unlikely so many years later)? Or maybe families didn't typically mention the names of overseas relatives? 

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22 hours ago, Egil Johannessen said:

In the newspaper Jarlsberg og Larviks Amtstidende, Thursday 9. juli 1885 (LINK) an auction of movable property was announced for the 16th July, requested by the legal heirs of Hans Sørensen's (and his late wife) probate. The auction was to take place at Østre Lindhjem, Thor Andersen's home.

 

This auction notice is really interesting, too, thank you for providing and translating.  We know William left Norway on August 6, so perhaps he was in Lindhjem over the summer to assist with this auction. As I understand it, William/Hans's sister Anne Malene Andersen (b. 1834) was the only child other than William/Hans still living after the death of their father (Hans Søresnen Lindhjem) in 1885. (As perviously reported, she was married to Thore Andersen and died January 31, 1911.)  Is Østre Lindhjem different from Lindhjem - different farms? 

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On 6/20/2022 at 12:23 AM, Gry.Onarheim.Dahlmo said:

 

No information on a son Hans born 1832:

 

image.thumb.png.6793141c71e0e18d5ab2b37da4579d02.png

Could someone please explain what "lingum" ostre is (ostre meaning "east" I take it) is this a type of farm? Inger says it's part of Lindhjem farm - can I find this place on a map? 

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1 time siden, Louise Ober skrev:

Is Østre Lindhjem different from Lindhjem - different farms? 

 

The name Lindhjem (Lingum - old name) in written form can be traced back to 1495.

The farm was for sure divided in 1593 as Vestre (West) and Østre (East) Lindhjem, but more likely divided as early as 1528 (Source; Tjølling bygdebok. 2 : Gårder og slekter. page 553).

 

So, yes - two different farms - Vestre & Østre Lindhjem.

Edited by Egil Johannessen
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3 minutter siden, Anton Hagelee skrev:

Lets try this

 

Or this - LINK

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On 6/20/2022 at 1:07 AM, Inger Hohler said:

Norske gårdsbruk, Vestfold 2 https://www.nb.no/items/d7b6a8abeb13ea838d26df0aeb6badab?page=595
says Lingum Østre is part of the original Linheim farm (same farm number, 64).
It also says that the family who lived there at least from 1593 until some time into the 1900's no longer had descendants to take over the farm. It was sold to someone called Henry Skaraaseie, who the sold it to Mathis Wittersø who belonged to 'a younger branch of the family" i 1945. He bought it on 'odel', which meant he had to prove he was closely related to a recent, former owner who had lived there for some considerable time.

Hi Inger,  

Thank you, there is a lot of great information here. I appreciate the translation and explanation - how would I go about finding the address/location of this farm, #64, to see if it is still there in some form? (although your translation suggests there are no famly members left at the property)

I will look at the Geni information on Mathis Wittersø you provided, thanks. 

I have been searching the records of (William/Hans's sister) Anne Maline Anderson and her husband, Thore - they appear to have had a daughter Anna Mathilde Thoresen and a son Nils Kristian Thoresen.  Nils married at age 43 to a Hilda Marie who was 41 and I don't see that they had any children. I have not yet investigated Anna (although if she married she may have moved away to her husband's farm.)

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3 hours ago, Louise Ober said:

I will look at the Geni information on Mathis Wittersø you provided, thanks.

 

Looking at the Geni.com Ancestor Report, shows a  line form Mathias Withers to this man.  Making him a descendant of the first person listed in this tree.

Mathis, Lingum Østre icn_world.gif?1655839838

Gender: Male 
Birth: between 1570 and 1571 
Tjølling, Vestfold, Norway
Death: circa 1624 (47-58) 
Tjølling, Vestfold, Norway

 

 

https://www.geni.com/list/ancestors/6000000083998698191#12

 

 

Edited by Anton Hagelee
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3 timer siden, Louise Ober skrev:

It is still puzzling to me why they would not have included the name of the son in any of the articles, especially if the family knew who and where he was in America?

 

That is puzzling to me too. It's hard to know why the son's name is not included.

 

3 timer siden, Louise Ober skrev:

Was it maybe out of embarrassment because Hans had changed his name?

 

I wouldn't think so. Emigrants most often changed their names.  In Norwegian newspaper obituaries one can see both "new names" and "old names" being used.

 

3 timer siden, Louise Ober skrev:

Or if they had written his original name (Hans Hansen), would that have raised questions about the circumstances of his departure in 1850 (although as Inger points out, that would have been unlikely so many years later)?

 

I agree with Inger on this one. However, perhaps Hans thought different himself? I will add though; if Hans = William H Brown - that is not proven yet

 

As I wrote in my previous post; I've requested the probate record for Hans Sørensen from the Archives - it will take some time (2-4 weeks) before I receive a reply. Hopefully the record will give an answer regarding the name of the son.

Edited by Egil Johannessen
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2 hours ago, Egil Johannessen said:

That is puzzling to me too. It's hard to know why the son's name is not included.

I realized after I wrote this that the daughter (Hans's sister), Anne Malene Andersen, was also not mentioned by name (only her husband, Thore Lindhjem/Andersen!).  Hans Sorenson's wife is mentioned by name. So perhaps it is more a convention to omit certain names.  

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2 hours ago, Egil Johannessen said:

wouldn't think so. Emigrants most often changed their names.  In Norwegian newspaper obituaries one can see both "new names" and "old names" being used

Wow, this is so interesting.

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2 hours ago, Egil Johannessen said:

I agree with Inger on this one. However, perhaps Hans thought different himself? I will add though; if Hans = William H Brown - that is not proven yet

 

As I wrote in my previous post; I've requested the probate record for Hans Sørensen from the Archives - it will take some time (2-4 weeks) before I receive a reply. Hopefully the record will give an answer regarding the name of the son.

OK, so this will take some time to learn more. Thank you.  

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4 hours ago, Egil Johannessen said:

 

Or this - LINK

Hi Egil,

 

So Lindjhem Vestre and Østre are actually quite close to each other?  They are both "east" of Larvik, right?   

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3 timer siden, Louise Ober skrev:

So Lindjhem Vestre and Østre are actually quite close to each other?  They are both "east" of Larvik, right?   

 

Yes 😊

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7 timer siden, Louise Ober skrev:

I realized after I wrote this that the daughter (Hans's sister), Anne Malene Andersen, was also not mentioned by name (only her husband, Thore Lindhjem/Andersen!).  Hans Sorenson's wife is mentioned by name.

 

Anne Malene was mentioned. Hans Sørensen's wife not. She died in 1877 btw.

 

Sven's posting of death notice;

 

It reads;

Announcement

Hereby notifying absent family and friends that our Father and Father-in-law died quiet and peacefully Monday 16th March in his 92nd year.

 

Anne Malene Andersen       Thore Andersen

born Sørensen

Edited by Egil Johannessen
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This is starting to feel like beating a dead horse

 

For the record.....I continued the research and now feel that William Henry Brown is not the William Brown who enlisted in the militaty in the early 1860s.

 

Curiosity makes me ask.....

 

All of you appear to accept that WHB arrived in the U.S. in 1850.   Why ignore the birthplace as Larvik (WHB's Citizenship and Daughter Clara's death record)?

Edited by Richard Olsen
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