[#17268] Karen Olsen Onue/Lurdal Hedrum 175?

[Gjest jeff Erickson]

Ole Halverson from the farm Onue married Marthe Matthiesdatter from Lurdal on 25 oct 1751 in Hedrum. I am trying to find a birth date for their daughter Karen Olesdatter (married Lars Sorrens 1780) probably born at Lurdal (maybe Onue) One Karen was baptised in Hedrum 5 aug 1753, another on 27 Nov 1754. Which is Ole and Marthe's daughter. Both seem to be from Lurdal. Can anyone with the bygdebook for Hedrum help? Perhaps there is also another Karen who is their daughter

[Gjest Berit Knudsen]

My guess is: the first daughter, Karen, died within a year, and they called their next child Karen after the first one. In 1801 Karen and Lars lived at Stensholt in Hedrum.In Familysearch Karens birthplace is Ono, Hafallen eie in Hedrum. I belive Ono = Onø/Onnøe in 1801.So I belive you have to look for the death of Karen b. 53.

[Gjest Jeff Erickson]

Or alternatively, Lars and Marthe lived at Lurdal for a short time after their marriage. What does the bygdebok say?

[Gjest Berit Knudsen]

From the churchbook. No dead girl. Just 2 Karen bapt. 5/8 1753 and 27/11 1754 and father Ole Lurdal. I am not sure this Ole is Ole Halvorsen. It could be Ole Matthisen Lurdal.Found Ludal under Fjære and Allum farms, but nothing about Ole Halvorsen.Soldier Ole Halvorsen was married in Hedrum 5/9 1751 to girl Marthe Matthiesdt. Caut.: Iver Singdalsen? and Iver Brynildsen Aas..rum. Witnes: Ole Matthiesen Lurdal, Søren Nestrum and Rasmus Onue.Onue u/Hafallen II page. 131: Ole Halvorsen, died 1800 80 y. He was husmann here 1756-74. Moved to Steinsholt. Married 1751 Marthe Mathisdt. died 1801 84 y. Sister of the user before Ole and Marthe Rasmus Mathisen from Solberg. Chrildren: 1) Karen m. Lars Sørensen Steinsholt. 2)Kirsten b.1758. 3)Halvor b.1762. 4)Marthe b. 1776. 5)Morten b.1777.

[Gjest Kristian Hunskaar]

I've tried to help Jeff with this problem earlier in debate #16245.It's seems that the bygdebok has information that confirms that Karen Olsdatter, Lars Sørensen's wife, was daughter of Ole Halvorsen Ono. Our problem is that the churchbook doesn't confirm this.There are examples that baptisms are missed out in the churchbooks, so the bygdebok may very well be right. But it would of course be nice to know its source.(For everyone interested; Hedrum churchbook 1751-77/85 is available from my website http://folk.uio.no/khunskaa/slekt/ - parts of this appears at Digitalarkivet.)

[Gjest Berit Knudsen]

Ole Halvorsen came to Onue about 1756, but what about 1751-56. Maybe Langestrand?

[Gjest Kristian Hunskaar]

Berit has a good point; Ole Halvorsen has probably lived somewhere else 1751-56, and since Karen doesn't seem to appear as baptised in Hedrum, her parents may have stayed in a neighbouring parish, most likely Larvik, Langestrand, Brunlanes or Tjølling. Unfortunately, only Tjølling has churchbooks for the 1750s.

[Gjest Jeff Erickson]

I think that Ole Halverson married Marthe Mathisd.in 1751 and they lived at Lurdal for a few years. Marthe was from Lurdal. If Ole Halverson was a soldier perhaps Marthe lived at Lurdal while he was away and Karen was born there in 1753. The second Karen in 1754 had a godfather OLe Halverson so it could not be OLe Halversons daughter My thoughts are that Karen 1753 was the daughter of Marthe and Karen 1754 was the daughter of her brother Ole Mathisen. That way both were baptised in Hedrum. Where is Hafallen? Is it close to Lurdal/Onue

[Gjest Arnstein Rønning]

Use this map: LenkeGo for 'stedsnavn', write 'Hafallen' and you will find that Hafallen and Ono (Øvre Ono and ned. Ono) are very close to each other.

[Gjest Jeff Erickson]

Arnstein, Thanks Jeff

[Gjest Kristian Hunskaar]

A probate record for Ole Halvorsen or his wife (if it exists) might close this problem.Jeff's theory (8th posting) might be correct. I still have some doubts about it. Ole was a soldier when he married Marte, that's sure. But although he was a soldier, it didn't mean that he was absent. He still had to make his outcome some way (that was almost necessary if one wanted to get married in those days). Ludal was a small place and could probably not support two families. Population at such places were also regulated, a cottager couldn't give home to as many people he wanted, nor close relatives. Additionally, if there really was two men named Ole at Ludal at the same time, the churchbook would probably have specified the second name when the two Karens were baptised. I've seen such cases elsewhere in the same churchbook.My guess is, as the bygdebok states that Karen Olsdatter Steinsholt was daughter of Ole Halvorsen, that there is a source that confirms this relationship, perhaps a probate record. But I think it is more probable that Karen was born outside Hedrum parish than that she was born at Ludal.Conclusion: You can regard Karen Olsdatter Steinsholt as daughter of Ole Halvorsen Ono, but her year and place of birth are at the moment unknown.

[Gjest Jeff Erickson]

Does the bygdebok tell where OLE Halvorsen was born or when. I have found a reference to 1715 in Hedrum but if he died aged 80 in 1800 this cannot be right. Who were his parents?

[Gjest Berit Knudsen]

It is not weritten anything more in the book.I wrote Nestrum, but I belive it should be Westrum. Maybe it is possible to find something under Aasrum or Westrum farms in Hedrum.Maybe someone else have time to take a look at the Godparents of their children born in Hedrum.

[Gjest Jeff Erickson]

Rasmus Onue was at Ole Havorsens wedding and was also a godfather to the 1753 Karen. Where was Rasmus Onue from?

[Gjest Berit Knudsen]

Rasmus Mathisen Onue, brother of Marthe Mathisdt., was from Solberg.

[Gjest Kristian Hunskaar]

Mathis Jonsen, Solberg, had three children: Rasmus (farmed Ono), Marte and Ole (farmed Ludal).

[Gjest Jeff Erickson]

Karen Olsdatter born to Ole Halverson and Marthe Mathisdatter died in 1837 according to the 'Family Search' records . Does the death record show her date and place of birth. 'Family Search ' also show she was born in 1755 or 1763 at Hafallen. Can this be verified

[Gjest jeff erickson]

Is the Karen Olsdatter who married Nils Isaksen of Gjone Store (or Vestby) one of the Karens from Ludal. Can we tell when Karen married Nils

[Gjest Kristian Hunskaar]

They were engaged March 19th 1785 and married May 5th 1785.As their best men was Paul [Olsen] Holm and Peder [Olsen] Holm, Karen is likely to be identical with their sister (listed as 9 years of age in 1757, which corresponds with 52 years of age in 1801). Then she is the daughter of Ole Sørensen (ca. 1713-1773) and Marte Gulliksdatter (ca. 1716-1757) at Holm in Hedrum. A look in the bygdebok will probably confirm this.There is no connections to Ludal, as far as I can see.

[Gjest jeff erickson]

[6] I have found some information that says Ole Halvorsen was the son of Halvor Ono and was born 1720 in Hedrum. Can this be verified please?

[Gjest Kristian Hunskaar]

What is 'some information'? There bygdebook mentions no Halvor at Ono in the those years.

[Gjest jeff erickson]

KristianIt is a Family Search entry which shows OLe Halvorsen was born at Onue in 1720. His father is shown as Halvor OnoAlso the 1751 marriage entry on your site shows OLe Halverson's fathers farm as Onue. It seem that Ole was at ONue at least before 1751

[Gjest Kristian Hunskaar]

I suspect the FS-entry to be a construction, until the opposite is proved. As I said, no Halvor is mentioned at Ono around 1720 +/- 50 years or more.The farm name in the marriage-entry is not fathers farm name. It is the groom's farm name. Ole was a soldier, and perhaps he was stationed at Ono.In other words, a verification of [20] seems impossible to me at this moment. However, anyone is welcome to draw a contrary conclusion, but then, of course, based on traceable sources.

[Gjest jeff erickson]

Perhaps Ole Halvoorsen was not Karen Olsdatter's father.The 1762 Ekstraskatten in Hedrum shows Ole Halvorsen and Marthe Mathisdatter at a Plass Onue on the Farm Ronningen with Karen Rasmusdatter. Perhaps Karen was the daughter of Rasmus Mathisen and thats why we cant find her birth .Is that feasible?

[Gjest Kristian Hunskaar]

Karen was indeed daughter of Rasmus Mathisen and Kirsten Pedersdatter. She was a maid (pige) at Ono already in 1756 (the probate of her father) and still in 1762. The reason why we can't find Karen's birth, is that the extra tax (ekstraskatten) shows only persons above the age of 12, and hence all persons in the list is born 1750 or earlier. As the church book starts 1751, noone in the list an be found baptised (except those born in a parish with older churchbooks).As Ole Halvorsen and Marthe Mathisdatter didn't marry until 1751, and probably not had children before marriage, it is no surprise that the extra tax doesn't show any children. The extra tax can't verify whether or not Karen was daughter of Ole Halvorsen.I think my conclusion from [11] still counts: You can regard Karen Olsdatter Steinsholt as daughter of Ole Halvorsen Ono, but her year and place of birth are at the moment unknown.