[#18489] Sources for Totens (Oppland) for period 1791 through 1801

[Gjest Michael J. Lund]

This URL leads to 1801 census information for the town of Totens as recorded here in the Digitalarkivet:LenkeEntries 72 through 81 pertain to the family of a Christian Christensen, having a 10-year-old son named Peder.My ancestor, Peder Christiansen, was married at the church in Gran on 22 November 1817 at the age of 26.I am interested in finding out whether the 10-year-old boy in Totens is in fact my ancestor. Totens does not appear to be far from Gran.o Does anyone know to which church parish the town of Totens belonged in 1801?o I have not succeeded in finding more information about this family on the Digitalarkivet, perhaps because I don't know enough about the geography of western Oppland. Are any of my Norwegian readers aware of a page on this website that I should investigate further?o Does anyone know of other sources I should consider?I have already received the excellent suggestions of trying to contact the Gjøvik and Toten slektshistorielag and the Vestoppland Slektshistorielag, and I shall do so. Thanks in advance for any advice! Mike Lund

[Gjest Odd Brede]

Hello! Do you know this site http://www.slektshistorielaget.no/ Odd Brede

[Gjest Tor Rustad]

Mike;I guess you don't have any information where he was born - then searching for him you found this family at Toten?I checked out Census 1801, Gran and didn't find him there. If you go to the web Odd gave you; then to 'Kilder'(sources) / Gran /'kirkebøker' you'll find baptized at Gran 1787-1804.The children are only indexed at given names. There are 107 Peder; some few interesting; but none at Census 1801!Yes; it could be the one you found at Toten; but it was a common name at that time. However; he was living at a special farm; the rectory of Hoff Church.Do you have any more information on him, where did he work, name of family members??At 'slekthistorielaget.no the record of bapized at that time isn't available; but I'll try to take a look at the local Historical Society in a week or two.Good luck!Tor

[Gjest Michael J. Lund]

Thank you so much, Odd and Tor! I appreciate both of your responses!Odd --Someone else has already suggested this site to me. Thank you for mentioning it to me, as well!Tor --I had actually already pored over microfilmed baptism records in the Gran kirkebøker, with special interest in the years surrounding 1791. Like you, I found no candidates. I do know that, as an adult, Peder Christiansen was a tenant farmer in Rudeneiet. He and his wife, Marthe Andersdatter, raised nine children there. His children were Kari, Anne, Elina, Anders, Mari, Peder (my ancestor), Christian, Marte, and Karen. As circumstantial evidence, some of the names of the siblings of the Peder Christiansen identified in the 1801 census do in fact appear as 'fadder' at the baptisms of the children of my Peder Christiansen in Ruden.Thank you for the information that the Totens Christian Christensen family lived at the rectory of Hoff Church. Does this church maintain any records? Perhaps the historical society will house this information? I wonder whether there might be some emigration / immigration records of this family -- _if_ they moved away from Totens, then where did they go? Also, if this family's children married in the area, perhaps there would be marriage records for them. I have yet to search the marriage records in Gran for any possible matches. Marriage records in Totens would be evidence that they did NOT move.What would be the social role of someone tending a farm like the rectory of Hoff Church? Would this Christian Christensen also have performed some ecclesiastical duties? Thank you for your kind offer to look in the archives of the Historical Society! Mike

[Gjest Rune Hårstadsveen]

It's a good possibility that the Peder you found in the 1801-cencus at Toten is the right person. Christian Christensen and Berte Pedersdatter lived as cotters at a place called Korsen. Korsen belonged to Hoff/Toten's rectory, but was lying at the part of Toten called Eina, and almost at the border to Gran.Christian and Berte got married at Toten in 1785, and 10 children was born here in the period between 1786 and 1803. Since 1803 I've found no record of them at Toten - maybe the family moved to Gran at that time?Maybe someone could check out if Christian Christensen died at Gran? And if Peder Christiansen got confirmed there (abt. 1806)?

[Gjest Tor Rustad]

Mike;Most of your questions is answered by Rune. I can add;living at a rectory'e subfarm didn't change their social rolle.Yes; there could be an emigration record but probably not in this case; if there was I'm sure Rune had mentioned it. tor

[Gjest Michael J. Lund]

Thanks greatly, Rune and Tor!Rune --o If you find no further activities of this family after 1803, I think I will see whether I can purchase microfilmed copies of the Gran kirkebøker. If, as you suggest, I can locate the confirmation record of Peder Christiansen in Gran, and then of the siblings listed at the Digitalarkivet URL I provided above, then I think this would be excellent evidence that the family in Totens is related to me.The information you provide is exciting! What is the source of this information? Have you been able to consult church records that contain references to baptisms and other events that involved this family? For my records, I would be interested in learning all I can about this family -- birthdates, names of fadder, and so forth.Again, thank you for this information!Tor --Thanks for the clarification. It seems, then, that this family would not have had any special obligations to the church on whose lands they lived.I appreciate the time that all of you have invested in my behalf! Mike

[Gjest Tor Rustad]

Mike;Just a pleasure to help you! Exuse me for asking; I'm curious: You got a Scandinavian surname. From where??(I think Rune got his information from the local archive I told you about)I'll hope you'll get more on your ancestors.tor

[Gjest Michael J. Lund]

Tor --Family tradition says that Carl Ludwig Lund came from a city in Norway called 'Bardo.' Family traditions can be incorrect, as we know . . . .Perhaps the original city was Bodø, the one up near Tromsø. I believe I have also heard of a Bardu in Norway. I have been unable to locate a city called 'Bardo.' Do you know of one? (o:His wife was from Fredrikstad. An uncaptioned wedding picture that purportedly shows Carl and his wife, Julia _ERICKSON_, was made in Trondheim. If they did in fact meet and marry in Norway, some of these connections seem unlikely. Also, it occurs to me that these names may have been somewhat altered in America.But, yes, I am of Norwegian heritage and have been proud of it since my childhood. Thanks for asking! Mike

[Gjest Berit Knudsen]

I do not know if this is of any interest but there is a place Bardu in Troms, but it is not a city.One whole family Lund, incl.a son Carl, emigrates to Glydon Minn. from Bardu and Maalselv in 1877.

[Gjest Michael J. Lund]

Berit --Thanks for this information! I was not expecting to find out anything new about my Lund line with this posting -- what a pleasant surprise!What is your source? What were names of other family members? Was the father's name by any chance _Paul Elvik Lund_, and was he a farmer? There is a Paul Lund buried near Bridgeport, Wisconsin, who I believe could be my great-great-grandfather, but I have been unable to confirm this. Perhaps the information you have would assist in establishing this link.I am thrilled with the possibility that this could be my Lund progenitor. Since it is a separate issue, perhaps I will open a new topic in the debate forum. Also, my e-mail address is wonderlunds@juno.com, if there should be anything you would like to send me.Thanks again, Berit! Mike

[Gjest Tor Rustad]

Mike and Berit;I'm glad I don't have to aplogize for my curiosity! I'll keep an eye on your new topic!Good luck!tor

[Gjest Berit Knudsen]

When was your Carl born?The farmer Iver Olai Lund and his 6 children and no wife Lenke

[Gjest Gunnar Thon]

Hello MikeI have checked the Eina bygdebook re the family in Korsen. The oldest child Pernille probably died as cotter's wife at nearby Sønsteby in 1859. Son Hans b 1894 m (1) 1829 Maria Kristoffersdatter and stayed in Eina. Then there are two children not in the 1801 census: Marthe b 1795 d 1796 and Berte Maria b and d 1803. This is probably the last record of the family in Eina. No more info than birth years about the other children, and no death years of the parents. This must mean that the family moved from Eina.Then to Gran: Your ancestor Peder Christiansen, then called Christensen, was married i Gran 22 Nov 1817. He was then living in Onsager, on the west side of the lake Randsfjorden. There can be noe doubt, I think, that it is the same person that was confirmed in Gran Oct 1806 as Peder Christensen Kamerud 15 years. Kammerud is a bit north of Onsager. That it is the same person is also supported by the names of the faddere of his children. At the baptisms of the children he is always called Christiansen. This Peder is not in Gran in 1801.I have also checked the baptisms of all Peder Chistiansen the years around 1791. For those that could be possible, I think I have found that they all ended other places. So I am sure that we have to look outside Hadeland. Living at Kammerud, he could have come from west, from Ådal, Norderhov. There is one possible in Norderhov, but near Hønefoss further south. Don't know where he ended. The other closest possibillity is the one from Toten.I looked for confirmations 1803 – 1809 in Gran for siblings of Peder C from Toten, but could not find any. If you get the church book films from Gran, you should go on whith this, and also look for the funerals of his parents. I also took a little look at baptisms in Gran 1824 – 1842 at Digitalarkivet, for possible children of the siblings of Peder. Maybe some possible, but further investigation has to be done to identify the possible siblings. You should try that, I think. But it can be a lot of work.In your posting you have the following: 'As circumstantial evidence, some of the names of the siblings of the Peder Christiansen identified in the 1801 census do in fact appear as 'fadder' at the baptisms of the children of my Peder Christiansen in Ruden.'Well, some of the name of the faddere are identical with the given names of Peder's siblings. But here only the given names and the place of living is recorded. There are no patronyms, so it is impossible to say that they are his siblings without more research. Here you should of course also exclude those two siblings hwo stayed in Eina.Not much help, I am afraid. Good luck.Regards Gunnar

[Gjest Michael J. Lund]

Bardo' question! I have opened a new topic here on the Digitalarkivet to address this issue:LenkeGunnar --As always, Gunnar, your input is excellent! 1) I agree that the promixity of Kamerud to Gran is very suggestive. The fact that the faddere of Peder Christiansen's children seem to be connected to Kamerud is also suggestive, especially since some the given names of these Kamerud faddere also appear as siblings to the Toten Peder Christiansen. As you point out, however, this is not proof, and I have more work ahead of me. I should try to find marriage records for these faddere, as well as death records for Christian Christensen or Birte Pedersdatter.2) If the Gran Peder Christiansen is the same as the one in Toten, it is puzzling that there would be no mention of the confirmation of other siblings in the records. I believe I will in fact purchase those microfilmed Gran church books for the years 1803 – 1809.3) What social conditions might allow someone to be known as 'Christensen' at the time of his marriage, and 'Christiansen' a short time later at the birth of his first child? Could it simply be that spellings were not standardized at the time, or that the church recorder simply was not paying attention to details?4) The first child of Peder Christiansen (a daughter, Kari) named her daughter Birte. Granted, Birte is a common name, but I wonder whether there are any Norwegian naming patterns by which a great-granddaughter would receive her great-grandmother's name. I think most of the patterns I've seen or read about only extend to grandchildren, not great-grandchildren.Again, everyone, thank you so much for your help! Mike

[Gjest Michael J. Lund]

Tor and Berit --Sorry, the first part of my entry does not appear. I appreciate your interest in the 'Lund Bardo' question! The link I provide is another topic here at the Digitalarkivet.Thanks!Mike

[Gjest Michael J. Lund]

Everyone --I'll be in Japan until after the New Year! Thank you all for your help!GLAD JUL!Mike