[#21189] Message for Kongsberg (Berit Knudsen)

[Gjest Chris Nilsen]

Dear Tore,After our previous messages I thought you might be able to give me your opinion on this entry in the Buskerud forum.Anne C. Strandslett, Tranby, 13.04.2004 19:03 (3) According to ”Ringerikske slekter ' vol III , ”Gards- og slektshistorie for Sønsteby og Trommald” by O.K. Opsahl, one of my ancestors, Narve Halvorsen Veme, had a grandson, Gulbrand Torstensen Fonkalsrud or Kittelsby, born in 1707. He had a brother Mikkel (Michel)Torstensen who lived at Brastad in Lier. Gulbrand was one of the younger sons of Torsten Narvesen Veme b. 1662 in Norderhov d. 1745 and his 1st wife Guri Pedersdatter Medbøen b.1675, Flå in Hallingdal d. 1738. Torsten was the only son of Narve Halvorsen Veme b. in Sole, Sigdal in 1618 d. 1697 m.to Kirsti Eriksdatter Sleviken. She inherited Veme from her father Erik Trulsen Sleviken. They also had a daughter Kirsti married to Gulbrand Pedersen Medbøen (this is my line), the brother of Guri Pedersdatter. Torsten Narvesen owned Fonkalsrud in Ytre Soknedalen, before 1700. Bought in 1703 nedre Veme including the cottage Kvernvolden from his sister (nephew Michel/Mikkel Gulbrandsen Borgerud). He owned both farms and some other properties, but when his wife died in 1738 he left it all to his children.I haven’t got any record of Gulbrand Torstensen Fonkalsrud/Kittelsby beyond this, neither marriage nor children. But I guess there will be something in ”Ringerikske slekter” under Kittelsby. I haven’t got this book at present, but there’s bound to be someone who can look it up for you.Does this help prove your previous research about Mikkel Torstensen?Chris Nilsen.

[Gjest Berit Knudsen]

Gulbrand Tostensen is not mentioned under Kittelsby or Fonkalsrud. It was one GT but he was singel and died I belive around 1818, blacksmith.Støvern, Norderhov: Ragnhild Olsdt., dt. of Ole Pedersen Støvern +ab.1711 and Aase Olsdt., married (when?)Gulbrand Tostensen Kittelsby. Nothing more there.Weme Norderhov: Torsten Narvesen 1662-1745, ab.83y. 1.m. to Rønnaug Aslesdt. Bergsund +1695. 2.m.to Guri Pedersdt. Medbøen in Flå +1738. Children alive in 1738 from 1.marriage: Christofer Bergsund, Kari Hjelmerud, Ragnhild Jonsrud. From 2.m.: Halvor Weme, Peder Fonkalsrud, Mikkel Brastad in Lier, Gulbrand Kittelsby, Bjørn Borgen, Guri Helgerud and Kirsti Nøkleby. Also Narve Weme who was dead at that time.Probate: Weme farm 19/3 1763. Gulbrand Tostensen Sandager +, wife Olia Olsdt.--------- Children: Tosten Gulbrandsen 14, Christine 19, Guri 13 and Anne 11y. ---------The deceased had owned parts in Gulbrandsrud in Nes parish(Hallingdal, Flå? I wonder), but this was sold.I have found no Sandaker/Gulbrand in Lier or Modum. But there should be a Sandaker in Lunder in Norderhov, but not in the books.As you see here his wife is named Olia and Tosten G. b.1748 his parents was named Gulbrand Weme and Elin Olsdt. Elin/Olia Olsdt.???What about Gulbrand T and Ragnhild Olsdt. I don't know the answer. I wild guess,maybe she was his first wife.This is all I have managed to find and I am afraid I must stop here and wish you good luck.

[Gjest Chris Nilsen]

Berit, I thank you for all your help.If you ever know of anyone who needs help to trace descendants in Australia I am happy to help in any way I can.Sandager. Is that in Norderhov or Lier? Farms named ‘Sandager’ appear in both districts in the 1801 census.Norderhov/Lunder/Sandager, Lier/Frogner/Sandager Hovedgaard.Whose death was it in 1763?Chris.

[Gjest Berit Knudsen]

I just copied it down like it was written on the registercard.The probate was found under Weme farm and it was Gulbrand Tostensen Sandager who had died (+). His wife Olia was still living. Why it is written Sandager I do not know. But I belive it is a Sandager farm i Lunder annex in Norderhov. The farms in Lunder is not mentioned in Ringerikske slekter, and there is no other books. When Gulbrand Tostensen Sandager died I do not know, but it must have been some time before the date of the probate.As you see Gulbrand Tostensen and Olia Olsdt. had a son Tosten who was 14 years old in 1763 and the parents of Tosten Gulbrandsen born in 1748 was Gulbrand Weme and Elin Olsdt.It makes me wonder if Gulbrand Weme/Elin Olsdt. and Gulbrand Sandager/Olia Olsdt. could be the same persons.(1 couple) This was difficult to explain. I hope you understand.Maybe if someone can find the marriage between Gulbrand T and Olia O., my guess around 1747 or before, and see if he was a widower then. I am thinking about Ragnild Olsdt. and Kittelsby.The copy of the churchrecords for Norderhaug/Norderhov in Oslo is impossible to read.

[Gjest Chris Nilsen]

Dear Berit,Thank you once again for your information.I agree that Gulbrand Weme/Elin Oldt and Gulbrand Tostensen Sandager/Olia Olsdt are the same couple.Unfortunately my only source of research here in Australia is the IGI through the www.familysearch.org website, which can be very unreliable.I first found this family in the IGI.1)Fristene Gulbrandsdt: baptised 1745, father was Gulbrand Tostensen and mother was Elie Olsdt. (could this be Christine?) 2)Tosten Gulbrandsen: baptised 1748, father was Gulbrand Weme amd mother was Elie Olsdt. 3)Guri Gulbrandsdt: baptised 1749, father was Gulbrand Helgerud and mother was Elie Olsdt. 4)Anne Gulbrandsdt: baptised 1751, father was Gulbrand Waagaard and mother was Elie Olsdt.This matches the names and ages of the family you found in the 1763 probate record.When searching for the marriage the only match that I found was: Gulbrand Tostensen married Elie Olsdt on 28th December 1747 in Norderhov. This would mean they married after Christine was born and just before Tosten was born.I also found in the IGI a Ragnild Olsdt that married a Tosten Hielmenboe (no patronym recorded) on 25th January 1739.I am still missing the definite proof that this Tosten from 1748 is my Tosten from 1745, but it does seem very likely. What do you think?Chris.