[#26576] Knud Torstensen and Berte Torstensdatter of Hidra

[Gjest John Knudsen]

I am seeking information about the families of Knud Torstensen and Berte Torstensdatter of Hidra. This is what I know so far:- Knud Tostensen was born 2 June, 1815 to Tosten Leversen and Astri Torgjesdatter of vestre Skogsfjord, Mandal. Berte and Rachel Tostensdatter were born there 25 September, 1817.- Knud Torstensen married Elizabeth Sophie Tønnesdatter 17 April, 1838, presumably at Hidra Kirke. I do not know when, or where, Berte Torstensdatter was married.- Knud Torstensen (my g-g-grandfather) appears in the 1865 Hidra census living at Helle along with wife Elizabeth Sophie Tønnesdatter and their surviving children, Severin Arnt, Petter Martin (my g-grandfather), Arentz Tobias, Tomine Andrea, and Tonette:[url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f61042&gardpostnr=145&personpostnr=686&merk=686#ovre>Lenke- Widow Berte Torstensdatter appears in the 1865 Hidra census living at Langeland with sons Tønnes, Hans Bertin, Jakob A., and daughter Bergitte:

[Gjest Jan Helge Trelsgård]

Berte Torstensdatter can be found here in the 1875 census: LenkeShe married Hans Andreas Jakobsen Langeland (July 26. 1837 - Hidra). According to my information Hans Andreas died november 23. 1854 at Langeland - Hidra.Regarding Elisabeth Sofie Tønnesdatter I think your information must be incorrect. She died september 20. 1871 at Marstad, Hidra. Knut Torstensen is found at Helle (Marstad) in the 1875 census (not available at Digitalarkivet), but I do not know when he died.

[Gjest John Knudsen]

Jan Helge:Thanks for your reply.Berte Thostensdatter's appearance in distant Fjære is unexpected, but not altogether surprising since her brother Knud's children were ultimately scattered along the coast from Åkerøya to Tvedestrand. I haven't, however, been able to locate any records of Berte's own children after 1865.A few questions:- 1875 Fjære census: I understand 'Forsørges af sin Fader' to mean that Bertine Andersdatter's upkeep was provided for by her father Anders Olsen. I assume then, based on the notes 'Ernærer sig ved Søm' and 'Ernæres af Ingeborg', that Ingeborg and Berte had no legal relationship to Bertine (neither is noted as Pleiemor), but simply provided her with room and board. How do these notes literally translate?- Hans Andreas Jakobsen Langeland: Does this Family Search IGI entry agree substantially with your source, except for 20 July vs. 26 July?:Married 20 July, 1837 Hidra, Vest-Agder Hans And. Jacobsen (32) Father: Jacob And. Langeland Berthe Thorsteensdr (20) Father: Thorsten SkangsfjordBerthe's age here agrees with her birth record from the Halse churchbook. Tosten Leversen's farm name appears to have been used in this entry, having suffered a bit in transcription (Skangsfjord from Skogsfjord)- 1875 Hidra census: Is anyone else listed as living at Marstad with Knud Torstensen in the 1875 census? I've found no records later than the 1865 census for his youngest son, Arent Tobias. His daughters Tomine Andrea and Tonette also go to ground after 1865, but reappear later as witnesses at Barbu Church, Arendal for the baptisms of Petter Martin Knudsen's sons Peder Martin (b. 1879) and Karl Emil (b. 1881).Elisabeth Sofie Tønnesdatter: Is her death date taken from the Hidra church book? The Fedrenes Minne database dates were unattributed, so I've only taken them as hints until I could find verifiable data.I've found many references to Helle in family records, but had never before encountered Marstad. Does a bygdebok exist for Hidra?Thanks again for your assistance, JK

[Gjest Harald Storaker]

Han Andreas Jakobsen was probably a widower when he married to Berte Tostensdtr. Here is a son from first marriage:JACOB ELIAS HANSEN Christening: 17 MAY 1829 Hidra, Father: HANS ANDREAS JACOBSEN Mother: INGEBORG RASMUSDRHe is on Langeland in 1900: [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f01042&gardpostnr=249&merk=249#ovre>LenkeJakob Elias was also married twice. Here he is in 1865:

[Gjest Jan Helge Trelsgård]

John:Regarding the family in Fjære sogn 1875, no relationship between Bertine Andersdatter and Berte Torstensdatter can be found based on the information in the census. Bertine appears to be born in Flekkefjord. The 1875 census is available for Flekkefjord here at Digitalarkivet, but I can not find any Anders Olsen there. I think your assumption is correct when you say that 'Ingeborg and Berte had no legal relationship to Bertine' but only by checking the birth records of Bertine in Flekkefjord 1873 we will know for sure.Marstad is the farm-name where Helle is located. Today it is farm number 20 in 'Flekkefjord kommune'. In 1875 these persons were found at Helle: 1. Knud Thorstensen, b. 1815 Mandal. Enkemann. Huseier med jord, fisker. 2. Arentz S. Knudsen, b. 1847 Hitterø. Sønn, enkemann. Matros. 3. Petter M. Knudsen, b. 1853 Hitterø. Sønn, ugift. Matros. 4. Arentz T. Knudsen, b. 1853 Hitterø. Sønn, ugift. Sjømann. 5. Rakel B. Hansdatter, b. 1830 Hitterø. Tjenestepike, ugift.The date of death for Elisabeth Sofie Tønnesdatter is found in the church book for Hidra (and makes sense since Knud is a widower in 1875).For the marriage between Berte Torstensdatter and Hans Andreas Jakobsen Langeland I have noted july 26, 1837 as the date. I might be incorrect however, but anyway you are referring to the same marriage as the one found in FS. I am not able to check that right now, but can revert with details later.FYI: It seems Berte and Knut also had another brother living at Hidra - Eilert Tobias, b. abt. 1813. Harald: It is correct that Hans Andreas Jakobsen Langeland were married twice. According to my information he married Ingeborg Rasmusdatter Veisdal of Hidra july 14, 1827. No 'bygdebok' is available for Hidra. I am afraid it will still take some time before such a book becomes available ...

[Gjest Jan Helge Trelsgård]

Another thing regarding the Fjære-census 1875: Berte Torstensdatter had a daughter named Ingeborg Elisabeth b. 1837. Could this be the same person as Ingeborg Elise Hansen, b. 1826 (according to the Fjære-census) ?Knut Torstensens son Arents Severin, b. 1846(7) married Didrikke Katrine Didriksdatter Dahl february 12, 1872 at Hidra. She died december 24, 1872. They had a dead-born girl b. december 16, 1872.

[Gjest John Knudsen]

Harald:Thanks for the Skogsfjord spelling variation. Tosten Leversen's name has been rendered in so many different ways, that it's helpful to know the farm name is also fluid.Jan Helge:The 1853 birthdate for Arentz Tobias Knudsen appears to be a transcription error. He and his twin brother, Karl Elias, were born 146 years ago today, 12/23/1858, at Helle på Hidra. Each was named for a deceased elder brother. Karl Elias died at Helle 3/30/1859.It's interesting to see that Petter Martin Knudsen (g-grandfather) still called Hidra his home in 1875. I'd imagined he already lived at Hisøy with his brother Arent Severin. On the other hand, his seaman's papers were not transferred from Flekkefjord to Arendal until 1883.Eilert Tobias is certainly an interesting find. I've often wondered how Knud and Berte came to be at Hidra, so perhaps their elder brother can provide a clue.Thanks again, JK

[Gjest Jan Helge Trelsgård]

Yes, I can confirm that the birthdate for Arents Tobias was 1858, not 1853 - a typo from my end.Eilert Tobias married Anne Ommundsdatter from Lund sogn march 10, 1836 at Hidra. They lived at Urstadstrand under the farm Urstad not far from Helle and Marstad. I have found these children:1. Olene Tomine, b. 1838, d. 1838.2. Olaus Teodor, b. 1841.3. Edvard Andreas, b. 1844, d. 1846.4. Elen Andrea, b. 1847, d. 1847.5. Edvard August, b. 1848, d. 1849.6. Karl Emil, b. 1850.The youngest son, Karl Emil, lived with his mother at Urstad in the 1865 census. [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f61042&gardpostnr=153&personpostnr=726#nedre>LenkeIt seems Eilert Tobias was the first of this family to settle at Hidra in 1836. Then his sister Berte married the next year, and their brother Knut in 1838. In the marriage records of the Hidra church book, their father is referred to as Tosten Ljødesen.If you have further information about this family and their whereabouts I would appreciate to know. The only one I have found further information about is Berte Torstensdatters daughter Anne Marie Hansdatter Langeland, b. 1842. She married Gjert Andreas Andreassen Haugeland of Hidra in 1865. In the 1900 census this family is found in Kildegaten, Flekkefjord

[Gjest Harald Storaker]

Have you records of the parents? TOSTEN LEVERTSEN Spouse: ASTRI TORGJESDR Marriage: 29 NOV 1810 MandalLevert is a very rare name. My guess is that Tosten was from Sandeid in Rogaland county. Tosten Levarsen in 1801: [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f11157&gardpostnr=19&personpostnr=345&merk=345#ovre>LenkeHis parents on Tronsvald, Sandeid, Vikedal 1801: LenkeAstri Torgiesdatter was a more common name in Vest-Agder. My guess is this one born 1775 on Øvre Laudal in Laudal parish: LenkePerhaps she was this servant maid in Mandal in 1801:

[Gjest John Knudsen]

Jan Helge: In addition to your notes about Eilert Tobias Torstensen and the 1900 census notes regarding Anne Haugeland, I have only the following listings for the three Torstensen siblings:Knud Torstensen and family in 1865:[url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f61042.wc2&gardpostnr=145&personpostnr=686&merk=686#ovre>LenkeBerte Torstensdatter and family, and newly-married daughter in 1865:LenkeLenkeRakel Torstensdatter (Berte's twin sister) and daughter Randine in the 1865:LenkeMight Ingeborg Elise Hansen, who appears in the 1875 Fjære census with Berte Torstensdatter, be Jacob Elias Hansen's sister, and Berte's step-daughter? Her age and birthplace make sense, but I cannot locate her in the 1865 census. Harald: I have Tosten and Astri's 1810 marriage record, as well the 1801 Vikedal census entries for Tosten, his parents and siblings.Thanks to John Svenning, Topic 19888 contains more information about Tosten's parents and grandparents.I am also inclined toward the 1801 Mandal census entry you noted showing Astri Torgiesdatter at Berge Vest, even though her listed age doesn't exactly match the Laudal baptism date .I believe this 1801 Mandal census listing shows Astri's parents:

[Gjest Richard Peterson]

Hello John:I have some information in the form of a descendency report for both Berte and Knud. They would be a little awkward to post, but I would be happy to send them to you direct if you would bive me an e-mail address. Contact me at rlockmanpete@sbcglobal.net