[#66939] Hans Lauritsen Hammer, døde 1692

[Gjest Tybring Hemphill]

I am trying to confirm if Hans Lauritsen Hammer is the son of Lars Hammer and his wife Else Andersdatter Plade/Plate. The records would tend to suggest this is the case - does ayone have really good evidence?Tybring Hemphill

[Gjest Sigurd Høst]

Hans Lauritzen (or Larsen) Hammer was the son of Lars (Lauritz) Hammer in Copenhagen and his wife Else Andersdatter, daughter of Anders Hanssøn and Bodil (Boel) Knudsdatter (Wincke). She is often called Plade or von Plade, but this name was added after her death. The reason is that two of her and Lauritz' grandchildren used the name Plade.My main source for this information is a book by Vegard Elvestand from 2004: Fra Københavns Universitet, Sorø Akademi og Ledreborg til Hadeland. The book is about Christopher Hammer (1720-1804) and his family, and very well researched.I am a descendant of Hans Lauritzen Hammer, but have not been able to find out what happened to him after the early 1680's. Where does your information on his death in 1692 come from?Sigurd Høst

[Gjest Sigurd Høst]

Hans Lauritzen (or Larsen) Hammer was the son of Lars (Lauritz) Hammer in Copenhagen and his wife Else Andersdatter, daughter of Anders Hanssøn and Bodil (Boel) Knudsdatter (Wincke). She is often called Plade or von Plade, but this name was added after her death. The reason is that two of her and Lauritz' grandchildren used the name Plade.My main source for this information is a book by Vegard Elvestand from 2004: Fra Københavns Universitet, Sorø Akademi og Ledreborg til Hadeland. The book is about Christopher Hammer (1720-1804) and his family, and very well researched.I am a descendant of Hans Lauritzen Hammer, but have not been able to find out what happened to him after the early 1680's. Where does your information on his death in 1692 come from?Sigurd Høst

[Gjest Tybring Hemphill]

The Hans Lauritzen Hammer I am interested in is supposed to be the father of Maren Hammer who was the wife of Henrik Bertilsen Thaulow. see link[url="http://home20.inet.tele.dk/klareskov/niklas.web/per00843.htm>LenkeI obtained the date of 1692 from an clearly uncertain source, but thought it at least a starting point for further research. see linkLenkeWhat I am eventually trying to establish is if Hans Lauritzen Hammer is the son of the Lars Hammer who appears in the portrait in the attached link.

[Gjest Bjørn H Nyheim]

According to 'Skifteprotokoll no. 8' for Trondheim (1716-1722), Gisken Arntsdatter - widow of Hans Lauritsen - died abt 1718. Division of inheritance was held 24th May 1720 between: 'velædle Hr Commerce Raad Froms Frue Kieriste, fogden Jens Mogensens Kieriste, Salig Sorenskrifer Taulos Enke Syndefields, Sal. Holger Bierches børn med hans første salige Kieriste afgangne Eliabeth Hansdatter og Sr Willum Henrichsens afdøde Kieriste Margrete Hansdaatters efterlevende børn' Hans Lauritsen and Gisken Arntsdatter had according to this 5 daughters:1) Cillia Hansdatter (alive 1720) married 'Minister of trade' Ulrik From2) Helene Hansdatter (d. 1749, Leksvik) m 1 Kristen Olsen Wind, m 2 Jens Mogensen, m 3 Jakob Thulin3) Maren Hansdatter (alive 1720) married Henrik Thaulow4) Elisabeth Hansdatter (d. 1714, Trondheim) married Holger Bierch5) Margrethe Hansdatter (d. before 1720) m 1 Nils Pedersen Støren, m 2 William Henriksen In the church archives for the Trondheim cathedral (Domkirken) it is noted that the 20th dec 1692 it was paid for the burial of Hans Larsen inside the cathedral. This could be this Hans Lauritsen, but in 'Embetsmenn i Midt-Norge i tiden 1660-1700' Svein Tore Dahl writes that he died 29th apr 1689. (Dahl does not state his source). Dahl also describes a silver can that was made by Gisken's brother. It had initials HLS and GAD. I have not seen Hans Lauritsen mentioned with surname Hammer in the sources.

[Gjest Sigurd Høst]

Hans Lauritzen in Trondheim, who was the father in law of Henrik Thaulow, was obviously not the same person as 'my' Hans Lauritzen Hammer, wine merchant in Drammen from 1663 to ca. 1680.Hans Lauritzen Hammer in Drammen was born in Copenhagen ca 1620, son of the merchant Lars (Lauritz) Hammer and Else Andersdatter. This couple is well documented, as is the fact that Hans Lauritzen Hammer in Drammen was the son of Lars Hammer in Copenhagen. (Hans Lauritzen Hammer obtained the right to be wine merchant in Drammen because of a petition sent by his father to the Danish king).Hans Lauritzen Hammer in Drammen was probably married to Anne Ottesdatter, the daughter of Otte Mogensøn. According to the respected Norwegian genealogist E. A. Thomle, cited by Elvestrand on page 782, this couple had many children. Five of them are known because they survived the father: Else, Karen, Maren who was married to the vicar Christhopher Møller, Brede and Lars. The son Lars (Lauritz) Hansen Hammer was a merchant in Christiania (now Oslo) and married to Anne Jørgensdatter (Neumann). He died in 1733.

[Gjest Tybring Hemphill]

It is so confusing when both Hans Lauritzens have a daughter named Maren. I am quite certain that I am looking for the Maren whose mother was named Gidsken, as this is an unusual name and Maren had a child named Gidsken Thaulow, whose portrait can be seen in the collection of the Norsk Folkemuseum.One source had suggested that her name was Maren Hammer and so I have assumed that her father who was named as Hans Lauritzen woukd also be a Hammer. Perhaps someone could have misread 'Hansdtr.' for 'Hammer'. I think though that you have cleared up the confusion for me and that I am connected to the Trondheim,not the Drammen family.In case you were not aware, Sigurd, there is a fine portrait supposed to be of Lars Hammer, husband of Else Andersdatter, which you can find on the Primus Søk website of Folkemuseum.Bjorn, do you know more of the ancestry of the Hans Lauritzen of Trondheim or his wife Gidsken? Thanks everyone for your help

[Gjest Bjørn H Nyheim]

I do not know much more of Hans Lauritsens ancestry, but according Svein T Dahl's book (mentioned above in (5)) he had a brothet Paul Lauritsen that was working for the prosecution authorities in Trondheim 1661-63. He was married to Ellen Madsdatter and had 5 known children. Since both Hans and Paul had a daughter named Margrethe, one could guess that this was their mothers name... Gisken's father was a smith, and in the written sources he is called Arne (or Arnt) Smed (=Smith). He owned a house in Trondheim - which Hans Lauritsen later bought. In 1656 Arne Smed held division of inheritance with his children, after his wifes death (name not mentioned). The children were: Oluf, Laurits, Hans, Gisken and Helle. Arne Smed was buried in the cathedral of Trondheim in 1688.

[Gjest Tybring Hemphill]

Thank you Bjørn for that information. It seems pretty clear that Hans Lauritsen is not connected then to Lars Hammer. In fact, am I correct that nobody finds the name 'Hammer' associated with Hans Lauritsen at all. Did somebody just misread 'Maren Hansdtr' as 'Maren Hammer'to cause this confusion? What do you think?Tybring

[Gjest Bjørn H Nyheim]

I do not know the origin of this mix-up. But in the book by Svein T Dahl, Laurits Hansen Hammer (married to Anna Neumann, see (6)) is listed as a son together with Rikard Skinkel. This first listing is clearly wrong. In 'Trondhjems borgerskap 1680 - 1730' (Vigerust et al) the 1687 census lists Hans Lauritsen with his wife, father in law, 3 daughters and 1 son (attending Latin school). This son probably died before 1720. I do not know his name. In (5) I listed all the 5 daughters. I listed 'Cillia', as Dahl did, but in the church book she is called Helle when she married her first hb Nils Christensen in 1693.

[Gjest Tybring Hemphill]

With your help, Bjorn and Sigurd, I was able to confirm that Hans Lauritzen Hammer of Drammen was not the same as Hans Lauritzen of Trondheim. However, this question I had asked was based on the belief that Hans Lauritzen's daughter had married Henrik Bertilsen Thaulow and was the mother of Hans Henriksen Thaulow. This fact is no longer certain in my mind as there is a suggestion that Henrik Bertilsen Thaulow first married Anne Lund (daughter of Raphael Lund) and that this woman was the mother of Hans Henriksen. Do es anyone have any information that might clarify? Hans Henriksen was supposedly born 1692, so I have been unable to find a record of his birth in the church records. Nor have I found record of a marriage involving Henrik Bertilsen in Trondheim in 1690-91. Thanks for any help.Tybring