[#69471] Lars Askildsen/Aschildsen/Aschieldsen gift 29/05/1767 Elis. Johnsdatter, Arendal

[Gjest Leif Salicath]

The Askildsen family has several times been married to members of the Erboe family situated in Skien, Bamble and Langesund (there named Aschildsen). May be one should look for the missing confirmations there.As I can't find any other Askildsen in 1801 than those in question Askildsen, I think both Knud and Joen Askildsen must be close relatives, possibly brothers of Lars Askildsen. Knud and Joen must be of close age, as we find their marriages in the same year (1783). Here you find Knud in 1801 [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=5&filnamn=f1801&gardpostnr=28317&personpostnr=419437&merk=419437#ovre>Lenke . His wife is dead and also Joen.I discover that Knud Askildsen was married to on of my other relatives Sophie Hansdatter Trane, so this case interest me very much.Madame Sophie Askildsdatter married in 1796 to Nils Rolfsen, has been previous married, and is possibly sister of Lars. She is possibly dead in 1801, and Nils is remarried

[Gjest Leif Salicath]

15.10.1779 dør Nils Rolfsens wife Kirsten Hansdatter 38 years old, possibly short time after their marriage. LenkeAnother wifes name, Anne Eriksdtr is mentioned.Then Nils Rolfsen could have been married 4 times, not 3.

[Gjest Leif Salicath]

I had a look into 'sjeleregister' from the churchbook in Arendal and in 1787 I found [url="http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=4688&idx_id=4688&uid=ny&idx_side=-20>Lenke with Lars Askildsen. Look at the end of his record and see Johannes 4 years old. That can not be his son Johannes.Further on the sjeleregister in 1790/91 Lenke you find him again and here the boy is 8 years old. Possibly this boy should have been born in 1783, but that year Lars has no childbirth. Instead I found Johanes, son of Knud Askildsen. That boy must have been raised by Lars Askildsen. Here is his birth Lenke .This conclusion tells me that Knud has lost his wife short after their marriage in 1783. His marriage is here Lenke in 12.3.1783. He is called 'mester'.Here is Nils Rolfsen in 1790/91 Lenke. And here in 1787

[Gjest Leif Salicath]

Knud Askildsen is found in sjeleregister 1788 and 1.3.1789 his child Askild, who dies one month old. Here is the birth [url="http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9400&idx_id=9400&uid=ny&idx_side=-45>Lenke babt. 2.2.1789. The new wife is Sara Johannesdtr. Their marriage is not found in Arendal, possibly another place. She must have died before 1801 (look into (26)). The statement there of only one marriage is wrong.A new boy Askild is babt. 7.10.1790 Lenke and the mothers name is now Sophie Johanesdtr. but must be the same person as above. One of the 'fadder' Jaen Borrely, is the son in low of Lars Askildsen.This record

[Gjest Tybring Hemphill]

What is the Sjeleregister and what information is contained in the notation about Lars? The fact that Knud's wife Sophie is listed as'Knud Trontvedts' is probably good evidence to confirm that certainly Knud askildsen and likely the person we think is his brother (Lars) are indeed from Trontvedt.

[Gjest Leif Salicath]

The 'Sjeleregister' is in english 'soulregister' meaning soul as person. I agree with you upon the conclution that Lars and Knud were brothers and came from Trondtvedt.

[Gjest Tybring Hemphill]

What is the purpose of a soulregister? Is it a type of census taken by the parish priest?I have found the death of Lars Askildsen's wife Elisabeth on April 12, 1776 in Arendal[url="http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20070329640362.jpg>LenkeI missed it the first time because Lars is listed as Trontvedt, not Askildsen.By the way, how can you tell if the April 12 date is a death or burial date?I also found that the first child of Lars an Elisabeth was stillborn in Oct, 1767 only 5 months after their marriage.

[Gjest Tybring Hemphill]

Elisabeth Jonasdatter should be found in the baptism records about 1739, based on her age at death, but I cannot find her, even with the neat records.Tybring

[Gjest Oddbjørn Johannessen]

In 'Nissedal bygdesoge' you will find Lars Aschildsen and his family connections mentioned - though he is there called Lars Asgeirson. His parents were Asgeir (Aschil) Tarjeison Trontveit (b. about 1699 at Grimstveit) and Kirsten Jonsdotter Nordbø (1706-1765).Lars Aschildsen (b. 1741) had 6 brothers:Tarjei (b. 1738), married (1761) to Gunvor Olavsdotter Vik (they took over the farm Trontveit).Jon Morland (b. 1740), married (1764) to Gro Alvsdotter Dale. They lived at Dale in Nissedal, until Jon was accused for burning down the Fjone (Nigard and Uppigard) farm. 10 buildings at Nigard and 14 at Uppigard burnt down. A great disaster!Hans (b. 1746). Moved to Larvik, were he was a carpenter.Knut (b. 1748). Carpenter in Arendal.Jon jr. (b. 1750). Carpenter in Kristiansand.Nottov. He died as a child in 1755.-------There is not so much said in the book about Lars: 'He was a merchant in Arendal'.

[Gjest Tybring Hemphill]

I am amazed! I had not thought it would be possible to find more if a person was not in the church books. What exactly is the 'Nissedal bygdesoge'? I guess it is a book about he farms in Nissedal, but how and when was it prepared and what were it's sources? I am very grateful, Oddbjorn for your help as I had given up hope of finding the parents of Lars Askildsen - and here you are able to describe the whole family. Was Asgeir a farmer? Do you have regular access to this book? Does it provide more information on the families of the parents of Lars? I should stop asking questions now. Thanks again.

[Gjest Oddbjørn Johannessen]

Hi Tybring!You are right. 'Nissedal bygdesoge' is a book about farms and families in Nissedal. In fact there are two books: One for the northern parts of the Nissedal community (Nissedal parish) and one for the southern part (Treungen parish). I have borrowed them both for a couple of weeks from my local library.First of all: Some reflections on the name Aschild. Nissedal Bygdesoge uses the form Asgeir, probably based on the form 'Askjer' in some written sources. However, you will also find the form 'Askjel' in some sources. In my opinion the latest form probably is the most 'correct' one - later on 'normalized' to Askild/Aschild. To make it simple I will use the for Askild in the following.Then: Something about the written sources. In addition to the church books there are quite a lot of sources that could give us important information (I'm unfortunately not quite sure of the right English terms): Hertitage protocols, mortgage protocols, justice protocols, different censuses, private farm archives and so on...Here is a presentation of some of Lars Ascildsen's ancestors, but I have to emphasize that the oldest information here to some extent is based on an oral tradition. The persons on the list were all farmers. I. Jon Valebjørg (Joen i Valabierghæ(. Probably born about 1380. Farmer in Nissedal's neighbouring community, Fyresdal.II. Helge (Hølgje) Jonson Valebjørg (b. about 1410).III. Olav Helgeson Valebjørg (b. about 1455).IV. Telleiv Olavson Valebjørg (b. about 1490).V. Olav Telleivson Valebjørg (about 1525 - about 1570), married to Sigrid Telleivsdtr. Ramse.VI. Telleiv Olavson Valebjørg (about 1546 - before 1623), married to Gro Bendiksdtr. Spokkeli.VII. Tarjei Telleivson Haatveit (about 1580? - between 1642 and 1645), married to Ragnhild Knutsdtr. Kyrkjebø (from Kviteseid, died about 1653).VIII. Knut Tarjeison Trontveit (about 1614 - after 1664), married to Guro Eivindsdtr. (Knut was probably first married to a woman called Aslaug).IX. Tarjei Knutson Trontveit (1638 - before 1705), married to Gunhild Askildsdotter Grimstveit. Her father was Askild Olavson Grimstveit (born about 1628), who was the son of Olav Grovum (about 1580 - about 1650) and Birgit Asgautsdotter Grimstveit (died after 1653).X. Askild Tarjeison Trontveit (born about 1699 at Grimstveit), married to Kirsten Jonsdotter Nordbø (1706-1765).-------------------Something about Kirsten Jonsdotter Nordbø's family:Her parents were Jon Søfrinson Nordbø (who died 1716) and Alet Jakobsdtr. Morland (died after 1739, from Fyresdal). Alet was the daughter of the dean in Øvre Telemark, Jakob Hanssøn Morland (I suppose that's why Lars Aschildsen's brother - who was responsible for the arson at Fjone - was baptized Jon Morland). Jon Søfrinson's parents were Søfrin Pedersen (who came to Nissedal from Romnes in Holla parish) and Sigrid Jonsdotter (who had inherited the Nordbø farm from her parents).

[Gjest Tybring Hemphill]

Det er fantstisk, Oddbjorn. Jeg kjennert ikke at man kan finne ut alle det.Now you see why I write in English - I was too young to learn to write when I left Norway. I am amazed that you are able to find 10 whole generations all in one book. Is that because the people all remained in essentially the same place. Are Valebjorg and Haatveit the names of nearby farms?Before you return the book to the library, I wonder if you would be willing to look for the family of Mthias Nielsen Dahl (1694/5 Kristiansand - 1764 Kvinnerad) who was the son of Niels Pedersen Dahl and Maren Mathiasdatter Rotkier. This Nelswas the son of Peder Nielsen Nesseldal who died in 1714 and his wife Sofia Ivarsdatter. Beyond that are Niels OlufsrnNessldal and Oluf Nesseldal in turn. Nesseldal seems to be an alternative form of Nissedal.

[Gjest Oddbjørn Johannessen]

Yes, Haatveit and Valebjørg ar names of neighbouring farms. Unfortunatelig Kvinnherad is not in Telemark - but in Hordaland county (on the Norwegian west coast).

[Gjest Tybring Hemphill]

You are certainly right about Kvinnherad. This Matthias moved from Kristiansand on the south coast all the way to Kvinnherad on the West in order to manage a large estate there for a wealthy man. It is suggested that his family were originally from Nissedal in Telematk, however, and I wondered whether the bygdebok supported this possibility. Is it correct that birth records for Kristiansand do not exist for 1694-5 as a result of a fire?

[Gjest Leif Salicath]

(27)-(28) Niels Rolfsen - 2nd marriage:He had a daughter Kirsten Lind Nielsdatter baptished 30th June 1788 [url="http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9400&idx_id=9400&uid=ny&idx_side=-41>Lenke and here we find the mother Ane Erichsdatter.The extra handwriting confirm that this is the correct Niels Rolfsen.And here is a son: Lenke Erich Odden Nielsen baptished 16th January 1786. Same mother. Both children found in ft1801.Ane Erichsdatter is buried 28th October 1794

[Gjest torkil lier]

Arendal churchbook: 29.of march 1761 Confirmations: Nr.5 Lars Adskildsson Trontved 18

[Gjest Tybring Hemphill]

Thank you Leif for taking up this old thread and thank you Torkil for finding Lars in Arendal - that explains why he was not baptised in his home town. Interesting that he would have left home before being confirmed. I wonder if that was a common practice. Can anyone explain how Asgeir gets changed to Askild? That is a strange sound change in a name.

[Gjest Tybring Hemphill]

Aha, here is a reference to Anne Mattisdatter Sylow (spelled Sylloe). She is refered to as a widow of Henrik Weiner. I would not have even seen the name, but the indexed skifte made it easy to find. It can be seen on p.74a, but sadly I cannot read at all what it says about her. Anyone?[url="http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-sk20081016360083.jpg>Lenke

[Gjest Leif Salicath]

Anne Matthisdatter Sylow was first married to Cristen Koch from Øyestad who died in 1724 (one daughter Margrethe 1722-1757). Anne was next married to Henrik Petersøn Wegner 11.nov.1727 in Arendal. They had a son Henrik Christen Wegner baptished 10th Dec 1729 in Arendal (mentioned on page 73a in the skifte in 1731.I also need help with the skifte, but think I read that Henrik Petersøn Wegner has been married before.I have not found the death of Henrik Christen Wegner in Arendal.Anne Matthisdatter Sylow is next married 30th Aug 1731 with Stie Nielsen Tostrup in Arendal.(40): In Niels Rolfsens 2nd marriage I found 3 more children (Rolv 1795-1795), Hans Lind Nielsen 1793-1794 and Hans Lind Nielsen 1794-1795). After his wife Ane Erichsdatters death 28th Oct 1794 he is married 26th Jan 1796 with Maren Michelsdatter 1735-1811 (widow after Lars Askildsen 1741-1793). 23th Aug 1811 Niels Rolfsen is married again, now with Guri Ellingsdatter Hougreid/Hougree 1780-. Three children: Niels 1812-, Emil 1814- and Andreas Edvard 1817-.The parents of wife No.2 are sersjant Erich Frantzen Odden 1736-1784 and Gunnild Andersdatter Langsef (married 1th Jul 1763 in Tromøy).The parents of wife No. 4 are Elling Ellingsen Hougreid 1752- and Hermine Marie Jensdatter (Flint ?)1747-.