[#75836] Holen gard in Frue, Hetland

[Gjest Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen]

I hope someone can help me to identify this place name in Frue. According to the klokkerbok for Frue i Hetland, my g-grandmother, Thea Bertine Fjogstad (f. Hodne), was living at Holen in Jan 1929 (with my g-grandfather, Svend Olsen Fjogstad) when she died.See this link: Permanent sidelenke: LenkeIn the 1900 census, Svend & Thea Bertine were living in Stavanger (Peder Klowsgade 34).In 1911, my great aunt, Hansine Natvig (f. Fjogstad), had a child at 'Holen' (she resided in America at the time).In 1916, when my grandmother (Maren Margrethe Carlsen) traveled to Norway, she listed her father's residence as 'Schankeholen p? Stavanger'.In 1928, when my great aunt, Otilie Clock (f. Fjogstad), visited Norway, she listed Svend's residence as 'Schancheholen, Stavanger'.I have looked at O.Rygh and at the 'Matrikkelutkastet av 1950'. I don't see any farm or bruk named Schancheholen. I found two places in Hetland named Holen, one under gn 12 Dale and one under gn 41 Hogstad.Can I assume that Schancheholen and Holen are the same place? What is the proper name for this place?I will appreciate any assistance.Hilsen Patti

[Gjest Wenche Iversen]

Schancheholen.Schancheholen is a living area near the center of Stavanger. Until 1907 the school in this area was named Holen. Schancheholen is probably from the Schanche-family. Wenche Iversen

[Gjest Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen]

Thank you WencheDo you have any idea why Thea Bertina's death was recorded in the parish register for Hetland/Frue? I am trying to reconcile the contradictory records. At least, they seem contradictory to me. Svend's daughters state that their father lived in Schancheholen, Stavanger. But the Hetland klokkerbok seems to tell a different story.Here are two questions I have:Is Peder Klowsgade 34 (where they lived in 1900) within the area called Schancheholen?And, do you know of a farm or bruk in Frue with the name Holen?I appreciate your help.Hilsen Patti

[Gjest Wenche Iversen]

I have consulted a dictionary on Stavanger which says that Holen was the originally name of the area, it was changed to Schancheholen in 1934, named after a certain Schanche Jonasen, who owned the land. In 1929 when Thea Fjogstad died, she belonged to the parish of Hetland, Frue. This parish does not exist any longer. Peder Klowsgate is much closer to the center of the city, I would not say it to be in the area of Shancheholen, it might have done earlier. Wenche Iversen

[Gjest Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen]

Many thanks to you, Wenche!I wonder if this area was sometimes called Schancheholen before 1934? Because some of records that mention this name were before that year. Did the dictionary state when Schanche Jonasen bought the land? I'm just curious.This is so helpful, because there was some confusion about where my grandmother was born. I was told (by an aunt)that she was born (1891) in Schancheholen. But now, it seems more likely the family moved there later.One last question -- was Holen/Schancheholen in or near the area called Frue?mvh Patti

[Gjest Wenche Iversen]

Schanche Jonasen is said to have owned the land the century before--1800--not specified in the dictionary. Have you found the baptem of Thea in the church records ? Frue is not the name of any area, it goes back to the catholic term of The Virgin Marie--Our Lady--in norwegian- ' Vår Frue '-it was the name of the church and the parish. If you have any further questions , I will try to help you--but later on, I will take a break for this evening. Wenche

[Gjest Eva Willenburg]

From 'The Oldest Sandnes' by Ola Aurens (1935):Gabriel Schanche Jonasen was born 2 March 1791, Austrått, Høyland, died 24 Nov 1849. He was a business man in Stavanger, and owned the farm Holen i Hetland parish, renamed Schancheholen after him. (between Ullanhaug and Lagårsveien, Hillevåg, to give you an idea)I have that 2 of Hansine Sveinsdtr. Tu's childeren lived at Vaaland. So they probably belonged to St Petri church, Stavanger.Hansine Sveinsdtr. Tu was the sister of my g.g.grandfather Rasmus Viby Sveinson Tu, born 1816.Do you have the book: The Family from Bjerkreim, The Hauge - Thu family' by Ingolf Øksnevad (Nærbø 1998)?

[Gjest Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen]

Thank you, Wenche & Eva!Yes, I did find Thea's baptism in 'Hetland/Frue, Randaberg: 1849-1869, Ministerialbok', 21 April 1861 at Engøen.Here is a question -- in my family tree program, how do I show Schancheholen... in Hetland or Stavanger?Eva -- I have not looked for Hansine's siblings yet. That is on my 'to do' list. So, I don't have a record of Rasmus. I am sorry to say, I don't have that book you mentioned. I wish I did!Regarding the children of Ole Abrahamsen Fjogstad and Hansine Svensdtr Thu, I found four -- Elizabeth Severine (b 1852 at Thu), Abraham (b 1855 at Fjogstad), Svend (my g-grandfather, b 1860 at Ladegårdsveien) and Rakel (b 1865 at Vaaland).I'm not sure why Rakel was born at Vaaland. because in the 1865 census, I find Ole & Hansine at Bispe-Ladegården in Hetland. And in 1900, widower Ole is at Ladegårdsveien in Stavanger. I wonder, is this the same place, reported in Hetland in 1865 and Stavanger in 1900?mvh Patti

[Gjest Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen]

One more question -- about Vaaland.I searched on this farm name in O. Rygh and also in the 1950 Matrikkelutkastet. According to O. Rygh, there was a gnr 21 Vaaland in Hetland. In the 1950 list, gnr 21 is called Bispeladegård. Also, I don't find Vaaland in either the 1865 or 1900 census for Hetland. So, it seems that Rakel & Svend were born at the same place. Do you agree?mvh Patti

[Gjest Eva Willenburg]

Some history: Frue and Randaberg separated from Stavanger parish in 1848, and became Hetland parish. Vor Frue kirke dedicated 18 October 1854. (Frue kirke 100 years, 1954). Not sure when different areas were became part of the city of Stavanger. But Ladegårdsveien, Hetland 1865 and Stavanger 1900, same place. Våland is an area in Stavanger, probably a farm in Hetland earlier.Øksnevad's book is good, but he missed a few people. I do have the book.Ola og Hansine had a few more children, have not checked when they died: Ole born 2 June, baptized 19 June 1864. Ole Hartvig b. 19 Aug. 1867, bap. 15 Sept 1867, confirmed 2 Oct 1881. Frue kirke, Hetland. Might have been more.Svein Rasmusen Sørbø Tu and Elsabeth Rasmusdtr. Bore married 6 June 1806, Klepp. All children from church book:Berthe Elisabeth 1807, Stine 1809, Rasmus 1812, Rasmus Viby 1816, Johanna 20 April 1819, Inger Kristine 12 June 1822, Elisabeth Sophie 8 May 1825, Hansine 7 Aug 1829, Anna Maria 2 Oct 1831

[Gjest Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen]

Thanks Eva!I thought there must be more children for Ola & Hansine. The gap in years was just too wide. This is a part of my family that I really need to flesh out. In many cases, I have only direct ancestors and no siblings. So, I am grateful for the information you provided.I'm still curious about Våland, though. O. Rygh shows it as gard number 21 in Hetland. The 1886 Matrikkelen shows Våland as a bruk under Bispeladegården (gnr 21). I'm inclined to believe this since daughter Rakel was born there in 1865.Thanks again... Patti

[Gjest Anne Bjørlo Fiskå]

Until 1879, Våland was a part of the registered farm Bispelade farm. Parts of Våland were already icluded in Stavanger with the expansion of the city in 1879. In 1905 and 1923 the remaing part of Våland was included mvh Anne

[Gjest Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen]

Thank you Anne!This information helps me understand what happened.Still, I'm not sure about what is the best way to display this place in my family file. What I believe is that several children were born at the same farm -- but in the parish registers, it was called Vaaland for one child and Bispeladegården for another child. It is probably all the same location.Hilsen Patti

[Gjest Eyvind Knutsen]

Here is a map for Svanceholen today,look at the red needlepin....LenkeMvh Eyvind

[Gjest Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen]

Thank you Eyvind, for this link. It helps to see the location, but also, this looks like a good website for maps of Norwegian cities. I bookmarked it!mvh Patti