[#80547] Could someone please help with a marriage record for Telemark?

[Gjest Mary EllenPeterson]

Kildeinformasjon: Telemark fylke, Porsgrunn, Ministerialbok nr. 7 (1858-1877), Ekteviede 1867, side 309. Permanent sidelenke: [url="http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1391&idx_id=1391&uid=ny&idx_side=-280>Lenke Permanent bildelenke:

[Gjest Mariann Stokken]

Found another book, much easier to read :-) But have no time just now for translation, sure someone else have give you the translation before I have time for it :-))Lenke

[Gjest Mariann Stokken]

they are nr.14 here.

[Gjest Leif Biberg Kristensen]

I've just looked at the original link, and it says: «Ungk. Telegrafbud Gunder Tøvesen og Pige Marie Cecilie Ambrosdtr.» Next are their places of birth, «Ø. Pgd» (East Side Porsgrunn) and Solum respectively. 16/10-41 is probably her birth date. The Groom's father is Tøves Knap, and the bride's is Ambros Aslaksen. Their best men are «Andreas Olsen m.p.p. Tøves Knap m.p.p. begge herfra (both of them from here)». The abbreviation «m.p.p.» written out is «med paaholden pen» ie. they do not write their own signatures. The last column states their smallpox vaccination dates.regards, Leif

[Gjest Mariann Stokken]

Hello Leif :-) I don`t agree that the grooms father is Tøves, I`m sure it is Tøres...

[Gjest Mariann Stokken]

Here from the Census 1865:LenkeLeif: skues me, but here we can see that it _could_ have been Tøves, sorry.....

[Gjest Leif Biberg Kristensen]

The name is unusual, but it is known from Gjerpen in the 17th century, then mostly spelled as Tevis.

[Gjest Leif Biberg Kristensen]

On the other hand, during 13 years of scrutinizing the church books of Grenland, I've never encountered the name Tørres. This is rather late compared to my research before 1814, so he may of course be a descendant of someone migrating from the Western or Northwestern parts of the country, but I suspect that his family comes from the Gjerpen-Tevises.The census transcripts are mostly written by people lacking local knowledge, and should hardly be used as proof of anything.

[Gjest Mary EllenPeterson]

Thank you so much for the info and your time. Could you tell me about the surname Knap which Toves used----- was that his original farm name? It was used in the 1865 census. Wasn't that early for someone not to use the patronomic naming system? Tak

[Gjest Leif Biberg Kristensen]

Knap is almost certainly a real surname, not a farm name, and is probably inherited from some immigrant from Germany. I think that the original Knap family in Grenland lived in Skien, where I have done little research. I hope that somebody else can contribute on the matter.I've got one Anders Hansen Knap born abt. 1765 in my database (Lenke) because he lived in Solum for some years, but I haven't done any real research on this family.regards, Leif

[Gjest Mary EllenPeterson]

Kildeinformasjon: Telemark fylke, Skien, Ministerialbok nr. 4 (1792-1814), Fødte og døpte 1802, side 190-191. Permanent sidelenke: [url="http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7889&idx_id=7889&uid=ny&idx_side=-70>Lenke Permanent bildelenke:

[Gjest Leif Biberg Kristensen]

It's unfortunate that the mother's name is missing from the christening of Tøves, but it's very unlikely to be any other than Abigael Gundersdatter.I did a search for 'Knap' in my database where I have entered most of the marriages in Grenland before 1814, and came up with this list:Kirkebok for 0818 Solum Mini 1 (1701-1716) side 155. 15.08.1709: Anders Lauritzen Knap og Anne Ollsd. Finde festensøell.Kirkebok for 0818 Solum Mini 1 (1701-1716) side 159. 20.10.1709: Anders Lauritzen Knap og Anne Ollsd. Finch deris |: brøllupsdag :|.Kirkebok for 0806 Skien i avskrift av Gard Strøm. Vielser 1736-1740. Cop. 17/9-1737. Lars Andersen Knap, Skomager og Magrete Simensd.Kirkebok for 0806 Skien i avskrift av Gard Strøm. Vielser 1736-1740. Cop. 10/12-1739. Lars Andersen Knap, Skomagermester og Enchemand og Pigen Johanne Hansd.Kirkebok for 0806 Skien i avskrift av Gard Strøm. Vielser 1766-1770. Trol. 26/8-1766. Cop. 26/8-1766. Hans Larsen Knap og Sophia Rasmusdaatter. Kongelig Tilladelse. Cav: Lars Knap (sign. Laers Andersen Knap) og Rasmus Isacsen (sign. Rasmus Tommesen).Kirkebok for 0806 Skien i avskrift av Gard Strøm. Vielser 1781-1785. Trol. 16/11-1781. Cop. Uk. Ole Jensøn og Afg. Hans Knaps Enke, Sophie Rasmusd. Cav: Laers Knap (sign.), Hans Tomes Frantz. (sign.).Kirkebok for 0806 Skien i avskrift av Gard Strøm. Vielser 1791-1795. Trol. 18/11-1791. Cop. (samme). Uk. Anders Knap og Pigen Abigael Gundersd. Med Kongelig Tilladelse. Cav: Gunder Tevessøn (sign.), Niels Madsøn (sign.).Obviously, here you've got three generations of the same family. Note that Lauritz is an old spelling of Lars.You can find a lot of trancripts of old tax lists from Skien here: (http://www.slekt.org/kilder.html). I did a quick search, but didn't find any Knap there. The marriage in Solum 1709 might be the first appearance in Norway.He may of course have come from Denmark, I believe there are a lot of Knaps there.There seems to have been several generations of shoemakers in the family. Young Gunder apparently left the family tradition for a career in the hot newfangled telegraphy, the humble beginnings of our glorious Internet.