Elen Gregoriusdtr in 1801 Stavanger

[Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen]

In 1801, Ellen Gregoriusdtr is living with my 4th g-grandparents in Stavanger. They are Biørn Nielsen & Berta Erichsdtr Lunde. See here: Min lenke

 

I have other ancestors with the surname "Gregorius...", and I wonder if Ellen might be connected to them in some way. I can't find her birth record, but in 1801 she has a daughter, Hendrichiete Maria Samuelsdtr. Here is her birth: Min lenke

 

There is a lot written here that I can't make out, maybe some clues to Ellen's origins?? I can decipher the names of the witnesses: Malene Kristina & Anders Jacobs. Sømme, Jens Svends. Giorstad/Giørstad?, Christopher Svends. Eog?, Rasmus Edwardsen, and Elisabeth Erichsdtr. I gather the father is Samuel Johnsen. I can't find him in 1801, but I'm pretty sure Malene Kristina is his sister. She was born in 1756, daughter of Johannes Knudsen & Birthe Siursdtr of Randeberg. But that's about it.

 

Can anyone help?

[Eline Johansen]

It says:

 

---

Kvinden Elen Gregoriidr hendes uden

for Ægteskap [...] Datter er døbt

Dom p. Fer. Natirtatis Christi den 29de

December kaldet Henricha Maria. Baaren

til Daaben af Malena Kirstine, Anders

Jacobs. Sømmes hustrue. Fadderne Jens Svends

sen Giørstad, Christopher Svendss. Eeg, Ras

mus Edwardsen og Elisabeth Erichsdr.

---

 

This is very formal old Norwegian, but the meaning is that Elen Gregoriusdatter baptizes her daughter Malena Kirstine the 29th of December.

 

The godmother is Malena Kirstine, Anders Jacobsens wife. The rest are witnesses.

 

The last part of the record states that Samuel Johnssen is the claimed father, and he is a sailor.I think it also says where he comes from, but I'm not able to dechiffer it.

 

Sorry, I can see no clues to Elens origins here.

[Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen]

Thank you Eline!

 

About Eeg and Giørstad, do you know if they are family names or place names? If they are place names, do you know where they are?

 

Also, if Malene Kristine was Samuel's sister, would it make sense that she was named as the godmother? Is it usually a family member?

 

mvh

Patti

[Eline Johansen]

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the geography in Rogaland.

 

According to my experiences, most godmothers to illegitimate childs are unrelated to the unfortunate mother. But it isn't necessarily so in every case. But then, in my mind, the chances are less than 50%. At least in my work.

[Eline Johansen]

Be warned; if the mother of an illegimite child claims the fatherhood of a person from a very distant district, it may well be a lie under distress, and the correct father will never be revealed. The real, biological father may have been an aquaintant which she does not want to reveal.

[Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen]

Thank you for responding, Eline.

 

Actually, I believe two of the witnesses are possibly related to the father. I found an Elisabeth Erichsdtr (f. 1779) living in the same neighborhood of Stavanger (Østervaag Gaden) as Malene Kristine Johnsdtr Sømme (the godmother). This Elisabeth is the daughter of Erich Johnsen (f ca 1744) and Ingebor Baarsdtr. I know Johnsen is not exactly a rare name, but still, it's an interesting coincidence!

 

mvh

Patti

 

Eline

 

Just saw your second post. Since I can't identify the father, I don't know for sure. But if he was a seaman, perhaps he is away at sea and that is why he is not in the 1801 census for Stavanger. I looked in the Stavanger parish registers to see if he died or got married in Stavanger shortly after Henricha Maria was conceived. I did not find anything. So, I don't know if he is from a distant district or not. I really do appreciate the insight, though. It's very helpful.

 

mvh

Patti

[Arkivverket - Kristian Hunskaar]

The last part of the record states that Samuel Johnssen is the claimed father, and he is a sailor.I think it also says where he comes from, but I'm not able to dechiffer it.

 

It says "Faderen til dette Barn sagdes at være een Matros Østen fra i Norge ved Navn Samuel Johnssen", i.e. "the father of this child is said to be a sailor from the east of Norway, named Samuel Jonsen".

[Arkivverket - Kristian Hunskaar]

Actually, I believe two of the witnesses are possibly related to the father. I found an Elisabeth Erichsdtr (f. 1779) living in the same neighborhood of Stavanger (Østervaag Gaden) as Malene Kristine Johnsdtr Sømme (the godmother). This Elisabeth is the daughter of Erich Johnsen (f ca 1744) and Ingebor Baarsdtr. I know Johnsen is not exactly a rare name, but still, it's an interesting coincidence!

 

I believe there's no reason to think that Samuel Jonsen was related to any of the witnesses. He may have been a fictitious person, as Eline points out, but if he was a real person and acquainted to the witnesses, he would surely not be recorded as hailing from "the eastern part of Norway", i.e. more accurate information about him would have been recorded.

[Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen]

Thank you, Kristian!

 

You are the first to offer this bit of information, and I agree that it makes perfect sense. To say he is from so far away, and give no more specifics... it's not good. However, the father of Ellen's child is really a secondary matter to me. What is far more important is this -- Where did Ellen come from? I was hoping there would be clues in the witness list. I found Malene Kirstina (wife of Anders Jacobs. Sømme) and I may have found Elisabeth Erichsdtr. But I could not find Jens Svends. Giørstad, Chrispher Svends. Eeg or Rasmus Edwardsen.

 

My whole reason for looking is to see if Ellen is somehow connected to the family of Biørn Nielson Austbø, with whom she is living in 1801. The oldest child of Biørn & Berta is Berta Guria Biørnsdtr. She married Tormod Olsen in 1813 (Rennesøy). Their son, Ole Tormodsen Hodne, married Maren Margrethe Gregoriusdtr of Stavanger. I realize this could be a big coincidence, but I want to make sure there is no other connection.

 

I would appreciate any advice...

 

Hilsen

Patti