marriage of Thomas Pedersen and Kari Leonardsdatter

[MarkShepherd]

Thomas Pedersen and Kari Leonardsdatter had the following children in Lier, Buskerud (source Lier parish records):

1) Kari, born 26 Dec 1785

2) Peder born 13 Apr 1790

3) Gunild born 21 Aug 1793

4) Leonhard born 16 Aug 1796

5) Anders born 15 Aug 1799

 

I am unable to find a marriage record in Lier parish register from 1783-1785. In the 1801 census,Thomas is listed age 50 and Kari age 40--There are no christening records of either listed in the Lier parish records for either, from 1749-1777. There are no confirmation records for either in Lier parish from 1750-1785. This would suggest they came from a different parish. Does anyone know which parish and when they were married?

 

Thank you,

[Jon Erik Berg-Hansen]

Kari was about 25 years old in 1785.

You should search the Lier records for another 5-7 years prior to 1783.

What makes you think Kari (1785) was their first child)?

 

Bragernes, Modum and Eiker parishes are all close "neighbours".

[Berit Knudsen]

I found one Kari Leonhardsdatter bapt. Dec. 31. 1759 Reinlie in Nord-Aurdal (Ourdal) in Oppland. Parents: Leonhard Johansen and Karie Olsdatter Stavedal. I do not know anything more about her. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9361&idx_id=9361&uid=ny&idx_side=-339

[Jorunn Stenberg]

There is one Thomes Pedersen bapt aug 24. 1749 in Aurdal (bottom left page). Father Peder Gulbrandsen Arenens (?), mother Gunild Thomesd.

Have checked for marriages in Aurdal 1783-1786, but did not find any Thomas and Kari there.

[Berit Knudsen]

And I found one Thomes Pedersen bapt. Aug.24. 1749 in Nord-Aurdal Oppland, parents Peder Gulbrandsen and Gunild Thomesdatter ...., bottom left side.

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9361&idx_id=9361&uid=ny&idx_side=-179

[Jorunn Stenberg]

Have you seen this page om FamilySearch?

[Berit Knudsen]

I found something similar http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/PRF/individual_record.asp?recid=1170472186&lds=2&region=-1&regionfriendly=&frompage=99

 

Found nothing in Lier Historie: Høvig, Øxnes and Sørum.

They are not married in Lier 1784, but he died at Høvig eie 8/7 - burried 13/7 1806, 56 y.

She died in 1831 accord. to FS, but not in Lier. Kari is not born in Lier 1761 and Thomas is not born in Lier 1751. I will guess their children were born at Øxne and/or Høvig.

[MarkShepherd]

Thank you everyone for your assistance. I have seen the marriage date of 1784 in Lier at familysearch but I think that is an incorrect estimated marriage date and place based on the birth of their first child Kari(in Lier)in 1785. I have searched the Lier parish marriage records from 1780-1785 and there is no record of their marriage. There are no other children of this couple in the Lier parish records dating back to 1777. I suppose they could have been married in 1784 but I am almost certain they came to Lier after they were married because it is very unlikely they were married and lived in Lier from 1777-1785 and had no children until Kari on 26 Dec 1785. They could have had other children prior to coming to Lier. I have two additional questions I was wondering if I could get help with:

 

1. Their first child in Lier is Kari, see http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8439&uid=ny&idx_side=-88. The farm name is Xvalle-Eje. I am wondering which of the neighboring parishes might be closest to this farm in Lier. I may want to check that parish for marriages.

 

2. It is intriguing that there is a Kari Leonhardsdatter bapt. Dec. 31. 1759 Reinlie in Nord-Aurdal (Ourdal) in Oppland and a Thomes Pedersen bapt. Aug.24. 1749 in Nord-Aurdal Oppland. They would be approximately the correct ages as per the 1801 Lier census. Jorunn mentioned there is no marriage recorded in the Aurdal parish records from 1783-1786. I also checked Aurdal marriages for 1780 and 1782 and could not find anything. It looks like no church records were kept during 1781. I also checked all the baptisms in Aurdal for 1782 and could not find them as parents. I might want to check 1783-84 as well but it takes me quite a while to look at all the baptisms. However, I am wondering what are the chances that a couple in the 1780's would migrate from Aurdal to Lier? I checked on google maps and it said the distance is 168 km. Does anyone know if that was a frequent occurrence in Norway in the 1780's? I am thinking if we could find them as parents of a child in Aurdal from 1782-84, there would be a good chance that they are the same couple who lived in Lier if such migrations were common at that time. My ancestor Kari Leonhardtsdr (various spellings were checked)is the only one listed in all of Norway in the 1801 census, so this appears to be an uncommon name. Also, it is interesting that their first daughter was named Kari (same as Kari's mother) and their second daughter was named Gunnild (same as Thomes mother).

[Kjell Halvorsen]

The farm named Xvalle was a shortening for Kors-Valle (Kors = Cross, ie X). The neighboring parish to northeast was/is Asker, to east Røyken, to south-southwest would be Bragernes and to the west and northwest would be Eiker and Modum respectively. Neighboring municipalities/parishes to the north and northwest - across the lake Tyrifjorden - was/is Hole and Norderhov. All of these parishes are citiated within the county of Buskerud, except Asker which belongs to Akershus county.

[Kjell Halvorsen]

Hi Mark,

 

I think the elaboration you made (item # 2) really makes sense so in case the Kari Leonhardsdatter that Berit Knudsen linked to in fact is identical to the Kari that later married Thomas Pedersen and had children in Lier, her father apparently married 3 times.

 

At Census 1801 living with his 3rd wife and their 3 children http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=5&filnamn=f1801&gardpostnr=15017&personpostnr=234868&merk=234868#ovre Leonhart and Helga got married in Aurdal November 2, 1778 http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9362&idx_id=9362&uid=ny&idx_side=-129 – (page 250)

 

Leonhard Jonsens 2nd wife was Joran Nielsdatter and they married in Aurdal October 1771 http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9362&idx_id=9362&uid=ny&idx_side=-120 (page 232).

[Jorunn Stenberg]

Bearing in mind that Thomas Pedersen is listed as "dragon" (dragoon) in the 1801 census, I thougth his and his family's movements might be explained by his connection to the military. I therefore searched for marriages in Akershus Garnisonsmenighet (Oslo) which is a church often used by men of the army. I did not find Thomas and Kari married there, but instead I found a marriage between Karen Leonhardsdatter and Iver Schiollesen Sept 24. 1784.

 

As you point out, Mark:

My ancestor Kari Leonhardtsdr (various spellings were checked)is the only one listed in all of Norway in the 1801 census

 

Schiollesen is not a common name either. In the 1801 census there is one family in Aurdal (!) with a resembling name Sollefsen. This seems to be a poor match as to the age of the children bearing this name however.

[MarkShepherd]

Thank you Jorunn and Kjell. I found Iver Schiollesen and his wife Kari (no surname is given) in the 1801 census, see http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=5&filnamn=f1801&gardpostnr=4696&personpostnr=56442&merk=56442#ovre, so this could not be the same Kari that was married to Tomas Pedersen and had children in Lier. I am wondering if Leonard Johansen/Jonsen, who was the father of the Kari christened in Aurdal in 1759 has a probate. That might give us information about whether this is the same Kari as was married to Thomas Pedersen. I will create a new post regarding this question.

 

Thank you again.