Karen/Kari Christensdatter of Thaaserud/Traaserud wife of Amund Pedersen of Baerum

[Tybring Hemphill]

I wonder how the family of Lars Hansen and Hans Larsen of Skui that Berit mentioned earlier was traced back so far? It certainly seems as though the church books cannot help as they start in 1728. Is there a bygdebok other than the one of Baerum (that seems to have mostly information after 1801, although a bit from earlier? Or has someone used court or land records or other more difficult source? I would guess that these familes might not have had a skifte, but I do not know much about whether that was dependent on economic circumstances. Any thoughts?

[Tybring Hemphill]

In further reference to Post #22 I have looked at the confirmation records to try to estimate a date of birth for 3a) Jens Christensen. This may be him confirmed in 1748 in the third line. From what I have seen most people were comfirmed between the age of 14 and 18 with 16 perhaps being an average. I do not know if there was any difference between boys and girls.

 

Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7729&idx_id=7729&uid=ny&idx_side=-260

 

I don't know why his name would be underlined.

[Berit Knudsen]

Bits and pieces:

 

My information are taken from: churchrecords and Bærum - en bygds historie.

 

Churchrecords from 1800 http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebMeta.exe?slag=vismeny&fylkenr=2&knr=220&aar=&dagens=&katnr=4 And as you can see Marte Arnesdt died jan.1-burr. jan.14 1810, 70y. as widow. 50 -60 - 70y.

 

Engebret Embretsen? born june 3. Bærum jernverk bapt. june 7. 1789 Tanum, father Eric Hansen B.jv., no name of the mother.

 

Ullern - Hole in BUskerud. In 1703 - 1705 Peder Ullern is mentioned. He was Lagrettemann. No wife, children or anything else are mentioned.

 

Ullern - Houg, Eiker, BU

Ulleren - V.Aker, Oslo (and in Tinn, Attraae in TElemark).

 

? 1801 Bjv. fam.77 Marte Arnesdt. At the bottom is Larine Falqvaarsdr. 16 y. the daugther of the sister of Marte.

Larine was bapt. oct.24 1784 Asker(born oct.15), parents Falchor Andersen and Else Pedersdatter.

If Marte Arnesdt. and Else Pedersdt. are sisters they must have the same mother.

 

!! Sorry it is Eli Pedersdt and not Else.

[Berit Knudsen]

Erich Hansen Ullern BJv. died 52 y. old dec.7-dec.14 1794 Tanum http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7730&idx_id=7730&uid=ny&idx_side=-247

 

It looks like Ulleren is a little place under Bærum Jernverk.

 

One Eli Pedersdatter B.Jv. died 49y. old aug. 18 - aug.27 1797 Tanum http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7730&idx_id=7730&uid=ny&idx_side=-249

[Berit Knudsen]

One Enke(widow) Marthe Amuns. jernverket died 66y. old june 19 - june 23. 1807

[Berit Knudsen]

I am afraid I may have given you wrong information about Eli Pedersdatter Skui- Arne Skui and Anne Andersdt.

 

Arne Larsen Skui died 35 y. old march 20. and burried march 25. 1743 Tanum krk.

His widow Anne Andersdt. was engaged march 18 and married apr.20 1744 Asker krk. to Peder Gulbrandsen.

Anne and Peder got 3 daugthers born at Skui: Else 25/1-31/1 1745 Tanum krk.(I belived she was Eli) Tore 15/5-22/5 1747 and Ellen(Eli) nov. 28 - nov. 30 1749 (her age fits with age at death) And Ellen and Eli are often used as "same" name.

 

Eli Pedersdt. was engaged at Bierche in Lommedalen 18/3 and married 14/11 1797 in Tanum krk.(I guess) to Falchor Andersen, and they got the daugther Larine (from census 1801). Eli(Ellen) and Marthe Arnesdt. had the same mother = Anne Andersdt. Eli Pedersdt. died 49y. old at Bærum jernverk 18/8-27/8 1797 Tanum krk.

[Tybring Hemphill]

Thank you Berit for the wealth of information which puts leaves on many of the branches of my family tree!

 

I have found the death/burial of Arne Larsen Skui's mother Marthe Sørensdatter. died Feb 12 bur Feb 22, 1741 at Tanum Kirke. You had given me her name and year of death - Is this from the book of Baerum? How is this information determined by the author when there are no marriage registers for that time period? Is it skifte or some kind of land records?

 

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7728&idx_id=7728&uid=ny&idx_side=-108

 

Post # 30 you give the death of Marthe Amunsdatter as Jun 1807, but when I look at the Churchbooks that date seems to fall between two different church books and I cannot find the entry. Can you provide a sidelink?

 

Does the book about Baerum give any indication of the death date for any of the following:

 

3a) I cannot find the birth date of Jens Christensen (paternal grandfather of Karen Christensdatter) If he was the Jens Christensen confirmed in 1748 he should be born about 1732, but I do not find him there or near there. He died before 1801, but I don't know when. Married Mar 24, 1761 in Asker

 

4c) Amund Knudtsen is the father of 3b) Marthe Amundsdatter. He was married Apr 9 1734 in Asker

4d) Anne Rasmusdatter is the mother of 3b) Marthe Amundsdatter.

 

4e) Hans Pedersen Ullersen is the father of 3c) Erich Hansen. I cannot find him married between 1733 and 1743, (but he is a Caut. in 1737)

4f) Ingeborg Erichsdatter is the mother of 3c) Erich Hansen.

 

4h) Anne Andersdatter is the mother of 3d) Marthe Arnesdatter.

[Berit Knudsen]

The death of Marthe Amundsdt 19/ 6 and 23/6 1741 (you have not seen at the bottom om the page it is written go to page 284. Easy to miss.) http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7730&idx_id=7730&uid=ny&idx_side=-283

 

Hans Pedersen Ullern was engaged 27/10 married 21/11 1737 Asker to Ingeborg Erichsdt. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7729&idx_id=7729&uid=ny&idx_side=-161

 

Marthe Sørensdt. (ab.1677 Ringi V.Bærum(V.B.)-1741 Skui V.B). Daugther of Søren Østensen (ab.1630 - ab.1697 Ringi V.B), skifte(Probate) 3/2 1697 and married to Kirsti Johannesdt. (born ab.166.. Hauger V.B. - ab.1708 Ringi V.B)Skifte 19/7 1708: Children: Østen, Christen, Iver, Johannes, Efven(Even)23y., Marthe married to (mt).Lars Skiur, Maren mt. Joen Joensrud, Margrethe 27y.

She was the daugther of (local sheriff)lensmann Johannes Helgesen Hauger (ab.1609 unknown-ab.1685 Hauger) and Mari Arnesdt. (dead ab.1698 Hauger) skifte 16/8 1698.

Skifte 1/10 1685 after Johannes Helgesen, children: Arne Johannesen Hauger, Oluf Johannesen Hauger, Kiersti Johansdt. Ringi, Anbiør Johansdt. Lefre(Levre), Mari Johansdt.

 

I am still looking for the death of Jens Christensen.

 

It is som many names so I need you to tell me what more you need info. about.

Maybe I can help.

 

Bærumsboka only use year and no date, as far as I remember.

 

The smiling face should be ( )

[Berit Knudsen]

I have now finished the dead from beg. of. 1750 to 1801, and I only found one Jens Christensen.

 

Jens Xstensen, jernverket, died 64y. old march 6. and burried march 9. 1794 Tanum http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7730&idx_id=7730&uid=ny&idx_side=-246

[Tybring Hemphill]

Hi Berit. Yes I missed the direction to go to page 284. I just relied on the index for the churchbook which does not mention that page. Thank you very much for pointing it out.

 

I think that the Jens Christensen that you have found in 1794 must be the right one as he would be born in 1730, and the confirmation I found suggests a birth in 1731/2 so that is very close. Also he is associated with the Jernverk as are many of this family I am tracing. I looked through the first churchbook for asker that covers the years 1730-1732 (and a bit beyond) but did not find him there, so perhaps he was not born in Asker, but this seems a little less likely given that he was confirmed in Asker. I guess it is possible that his father, Christen, moved to Asker with small children already born, in order to work in the jernverk

 

That makes sense that some of the information that you have on marthe Sorensdatter and others comes from skifte. Have you found these skifte online or summarized in the bygdebok?

 

It seems a bit extravagant to say, but I am looking for any information that you might have concerning any of those people named, who are the great grandparents of Karen Christensdatter. I do not think there is much to find in the churchbooks other than death dates for any of them as I imagine for all they were born before the records begin And I now have their marriage dates - You were able to find the marriage for Hans Pedersen Ullersen which I could not. I am frustrated by the number of things I miss and my difficulty in finding records and so especially grateful to you for your help.

 

If any of the great grandparents appear in the bygdebok, certainly I would be interested in their ancestors sketched out by the book. Tusen takk

[Berit Knudsen]

Jens Christensen, your inf. konf. in 1748. Maybe he was 20y. then, I do not know.

 

All I could find was: Jens bapt. 1.sunday. after h.3.konger (7/1?) 1731, father Christen Mandrupsen, Værket. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7728&idx_id=7728&uid=ny&idx_side=-18 But I do not know which Værk, Bærum jernverk og Dikemark jernverk in Asker.

 

Your Jens may have been born before, or in anther place.

[Berit Knudsen]

Marthe Sørensdt. Skifte 3/5 1741: 1.husband Lars Hansen. 2. husband Anders Pedersen.

Children: Søren 49y. mt. Inger Jacobsdt., Johannes dead mt. Eli Andersdt.(4 children), Hans 36y., ARNE 33y. mt. Anne Andersdt., Kirsti dead mt. Hans Nielsen and Mari mt. Niels Svendsen.

 

The probate records for Akershus http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/search/?forvaltning=ve&fylke=02&embete=Aker+sorenskriveri&protokoll=&periode=&navn=

[Tybring Hemphill]

In relation to Jens Christesen, yes, of course you are right that there is often an age range at confirmation. But again, this family seems connected to a jernverk (I didn't even know that there was another one in the vicinity) and the age fits with the most likely age at confirmation. So I think you must be right. I thought I had looked at all of the pages thoroughly, but clearly I did not understand how they were organized and so missed this. Thank you!

 

I have never seen the name "Mandrup" before. Since it say "Mandrupsen" does that mean that it must be a given name, or might it still be a place name? I think I saw "Ullerensen" once when the father was not named Uller as a given name.

[Berit Knudsen]

I belive Mandrup is a danish name.

 

The first churchbooks are a mess. No order at all. You just have to read all of it. Maybe they are one from Asker, one from Tanum and one from Haslum, I don't know.

[Berit Knudsen]

I have not noticed it before, but Erich Hansen born 1740 died in april 1742. His sister Daarte also died in march 1742.

 

It was born a new Erich 7/2- 10/2 1743.

[Tybring Hemphill]

Here you will see that the Mandrupsen family appears to have been established in Askeras there is a brother to Christen Mandrupsen named Jacob who was married in 1729 (see bottom centre of page)

 

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7728&idx_id=7728&uid=ny&idx_side=-15

[Tybring Hemphill]

It looks like the Mandrupsen family was closely associated with the Jernverk business as here I see Jacob (likely a brother to Christen) working at Moss Jernverk

 

(Kilde:”Arven” nr.1/2004,s.24 ”Moss Jernverk i 1750” skrevet av Knut Thorvaldsen.)

Jacob Mandrupsen og Ole Erichsen var kullbrennere ved kullmilene som lå på jernverkets eiendom. Den nærmeste kullmilen lå der det i dag er parkeringsplass på Myra og som før het

Kullebunnen.

[Tybring Hemphill]

This suggests that Unles Christen Mandrupsen were remarried between 1731 and 1737, the mother of Jens Christensen should be Goro Olsdatter.

Name: Mallene Christensen Gender: Female Event Date: 24 Nov 1737 Event Place: , ASKER, AKERSHUS, NORWAY Birth Date: 22 Nov 1737 Birthplace: Death Date: Name Note: Race: Father's Name: Christen Mandrupsen Father's Birthplace: Father's Age: Mother's Name: Goro Olsdr Mother's Birthplace: Mother's Age: Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C42820-1 System Origin: Norway-EASy GS Film number: 123213

 

And here is another Mandrupsen named Mogens:

 

Name: Mogens Mandrupsen Birth Date: Birthplace: Age: Spouse's Name: Guri Chalsdr Spouse's Birth Date: Spouse's Birthplace: Spouse's Age:

Event Date: 11 Apr 1731 Event Place:

Asker,Akershus,Norway

 

 

 

 

Since Jacob Mandrupsen also had a child named Mallene,perhaps that was the name of the mother of these two possible brothers:

 

 

 

Name: Mallene Jacobsen Gender: Female Event Date: 12 Oct 1732 Event Place: , VESTRE BAERUM, AKERSHUS, NORWAY Birth Date: 05 Oct 1732 Birthplace: Death Date: Name Note: Race: Father's Name: Jacob Mandrupsen

[Berit Knudsen]

I belive it is better for you to start another discusion about Mogens, Jacob and Christen Mandrupsen (Asker), and maybe someone knows something. It would not surprise me.

[Tybring Hemphill]

Yes, you are right, I think that makes a lot of sense. The topic has grown too large and is really too far from the original to provide any idea of what it is about. It is your invaluable help that has allowed the topic to grow so far and fast. Thank you.