John Meldal from Hadsel in Nordland -- help!

[Lars Østensen]

The parents of Johannes Nielsen are mentioned here: http://www.nb.no/nbsok/nb/4a36f5fb0ed2c5e254a9b4f8f78b1b21?index=0#437

 

His mother was Karen Hansdatter married to Nils Johannesen and they lived on the farm Brekk in Sømna, Helgeland. Nils Johannesen died in the year 1721 according to Sømna bygdebok, And Karen Hansdatter remarried Haagen Olsen. Karen Hansdatter died around 1756 and in the probate her son from the first marriage Johannes Nilsen lived at Indre Qvalsøen.

 

Brek; Brønnøy/1756
Karen Hansdatter     K                    Hovedperson
Haagen Olsen         M                    Ektefelle
Niels Nielsen        M        53          Sønn
Johannes Nielsen     M        50          Sønn; Indre Qvaløen.
Niels Haagensen      M  Gift              Sønn; Nord Horsvær
Brynel Nielsdatter   K  Gift              Datter; Ole Povelsen, Baustad
Marit Nielsdatter    K  Gift              Datter; Hermand Haagensen, Breck
Elen Haagensdatter   K  Gift              Datter; Johannes Ingebrigtsen, Breck
 

Endret Juli 2, 2014 av Lars Østensen

[Lars Østensen]

Johannes Nilsen, Brekk/Indre Kvaløy and his second wife Ingeborg Jonsdatter, Mardal is mentioned here: http://www.nb.no/nbsok/nb/efe00599f2039c0f1405db6e3755aab3?index=2#25 and here: http://www.nb.no/nbsok/nb/efe00599f2039c0f1405db6e3755aab3?index=2#41

 

It states that Johannes Nilsen refused to be the father of the son Joen born in 1772, but in the probate of his halfbrother from 1790 this son is stated as a son of Johannes Nilsen.

 

[Lars Østensen]

The parents of Ingeborg Jonsdatter, Mardal are mentioned here: http://www.nb.no/nbsok/nb/4a36f5fb0ed2c5e254a9b4f8f78b1b21?index=0#215

 

Her father passed away around 1772 as stated in Sømna bygdebok:

 

Mardal; Brønnøy/1772
Joen Anbiørnsen      M                    Hovedperson
Anna Joensdatter     K                    Ektefelle
Tarrald Joensen      M                    Sønn
Joen Joensen         M        40          Sønn
Ingeborg Joensdatter K  Gift              Datter; Johannes Nielsen, Baustad
Inger Joensdatter    K  Gift              Datter; Hans Christian Mardal

Endret Juli 2, 2014 av Lars Østensen

[Lars Østensen]

This probate related may also be of interest:

 

Lund; Brønnøy/1739
Niels Tollefsen      M                    Hovedperson
Else Henrichsdatter  K                    Ektefelle
Hans Tollefsen       M                    Bror.; Øksningen i Bindal.
Christen Tollefsen   M                    Bror.; Hielmset.
Jacob Tollefsen      M                    Bror.; Trelnes.
Hermand Tollefsen    M                    Bror.; Klokker, bor paa grd. Mossem.
Else Tollefsdatter   K  Gift              Søster.; Sevald Hansen, Wiig
Margrethe            K  Død               Søster.
Tollefsdatter
Ole Joensen          M                    Barn av Margrethe; Tj. Brønnøen.
Lars Joensen         M                    Barn av Margrethe; Søer Horsvæhr.
Berethe Joensdatter  K  Gift              Barn av Margrethe; Povel Nielsen, Ounet
Ane Joensdatter      K  Gift              Barn av Margrethe; Joen Anbiørnsen, Mardahl
Margrethe            K  Gift              Barn av Margrethe; Niels Jørgensen,
Joensdatter                               Ounet
Marithe              K  Gift              Søster.; Niels Christensen, Schille
Tollefsdatter

[Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen]

Lars!  You are amazing!  I can't believe everything you found.  I really appreciate all your work on this line.  Although you said in an earlier post that this was a "longshot", I think you have built a solid case.  I had read (in a tree somewhere on the Internet) that John was from Helgeland.  It was not clear to me where this was, other than it was in Nordland.  OK... one question... where does the name Meldal come from?  It seems to pop up sporadically in the early records, and it is there consistently in the later records.  It troubles me, only because I worry that there are two men.  I don't think so, but I don't want to leap to the conclusion this is all the same man, only to find out later I am mistaken!

 

I need to take some time to digest all this new information.  I can't tell you how grateful I am for your efforts!

[Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen]

According to Wikipedia, Meldal is a village and municipality in Sør-Trondelag, a part of Orkdalen.  Coincidence??

[Lars Østensen]

# 30 Obviosly this information has to invastigated in detail to verify the correctnes. Meldal is a place in Trøndelag, but there were a lot of persons using this name. Ex: http://www.nermo.org/slekt/d0004/g0000017.html#I3852

 

Even if someone were using this name it does not mean that they are related.

[Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen]

Yes, I agree.  I just wondered why this Jon began to use Meldal in his name.

 

Another question... I don't seem to be able to bring up some of the website links you show in your posts.  Is this a paid-membership website?

Endret Juli 2, 2014 av Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen

[Lars Østensen]

#33 No, but the pages are restricted to Norwegian ip-addresses and if you are trying to reach them from Canada that might be a problem. There are a lot of pages in these books that are of interest for you. Someone with access to these books should make a (digital) copy of them and provide you with the relevant information.

 

Maybe the library in Brønnøy or Sømna could be contacted to make a copy of the pages you need?

Endret Juli 2, 2014 av Lars Østensen

[Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen]

Thanks again, Lars!  You have been incredibly helpful!  :)

[Lars Østensen]

#35 :)

[Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen]

I find a probate from Horsvær in Brønnøy (Helgeland) from the year 1790 where it is stated that a halfbrother Johannes Nielsen is death and has left 2 children, Joen Johannesen age 18 and a daughter Johanna Johannesdatter married in Hadsel i Vesterålen:

 

Horsvær; Brønnøy/1790

Niels Haagensen      M                    Hovedperson

Sirie Joensdatter    K                    Ektefelle

.

Johannes Nielsen     M  Død               Halvbror

Joen Johannesen      M        18          Barn av Johannes

Johanna              K  Gift              Barn av Johannes; Hadsel i

Johannesdatter                            Westeraalen.

 

Hei igjen Lars!  I hope you don't mind.  I've been reviewing this new information, and so far, I have two questions (ok, maybe a bit more than 2 questions).  

 

First, his age/year of birth.  The military record (and also his burial record) show an estimated birth year of 1763.  But most other records, including the 1801 census and the probate shown above, show a birth year almost 10 years later (1771-1772).  What do you think of this?  Is this an acceptable variation for the era?

 

Second question -- about this probate you refer to above -- who is the person who died?  It says Johannes Nielsen is a half brother.  To whom is he a half brother?  What is his relation to Niels Haagensen?  I tried to find this record to look at the original, but I could not find a register for this file.

Endret Juli 2, 2014 av Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen

[Lars Østensen]

# 37 Military records and Census are notorios unreliable sources with concern to age. I do not trust any of them related to age.

 

Niels Haagensen was the son of Karen Hansdatter (Johannes Nilsens mother) in her second marriage with Haagen Olsen. I put in the probate of Karen Hansdatter in #26 to show the relevans of the probate from 1790.

 

Brek; Brønnøy/1756
Karen Hansdatter     K                    Hovedperson
Haagen Olsen         M                    Ektefelle
Niels Nielsen        M        53          Sønn
Johannes Nielsen     M        50          Sønn; Indre Qvaløen.
Niels Haagensen      M  Gift              Sønn; Nord Horsvær
Brynel Nielsdatter   K  Gift              Datter; Ole Povelsen, Baustad
Marit Nielsdatter    K  Gift              Datter; Hermand Haagensen, Breck
Elen Haagensdatter   K  Gift              Datter; Johannes Ingebrigtsen, Breck

 

The original probate of Karen Hansdatter, Brekk, dated 16. July 1756:

 

Kildeinformasjon: Nordland fylke, Helgeland sorenskriveri, Skifteprotokoll 22 (3A 0037), 1756-1756, oppb: Statsarkivet i Trondheim.

Merknader: Konseptprotokoll. 1756 II. Skifte 53-100. Foliert. Kronologisk register i protokollen, alfabetisk register i eget bind.

Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/24867/86/

Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-sk20090223700279.jpg

 

Compare the probate in # 26 against this:

 

Horsvær; Brønnøy/1790
Niels Haagensen      M                    Hovedperson
Sirie Joensdatter    K                    Ektefelle
Niels Nielsen        M  Død               Halvbror
Hermand Nielsen      M                    Barn av Niels; Waag i Sørsem.
Ole Nielsen          M                    Barn av Niels; Dyngeseth i Sørsem.
Berethe Nielsdatter  K  Gift              Barn av Niels; Jens Pedersen, Nordhusenge
Ingeborg Nielsdatter K  Gift              Barn av Niels; Andreas Olsen, Enge
Elen Nielsdatter     K  Gift              Barn av Niels; Knud Iversen, Øyen
Elen Haagensdatter   K  Død               Søster
Karen Johannesdatter K        30          Barn av Elen; Tj. Bøevolden. Formynder Ole Joensen, Indre Baustad.
Marithe Nielsdatter  K  Død               Halvsøster
Ole Hermandsen       M                    Barn av Marithe; Hjelmseth.
Niels Hermandsen     M  Død               Barn av Marithe
Niels Nielsen        M        3           Barn av Niels
Karen Nielsdatter    K        6           Barn av Niels; Formynder Johannes Larsen, Humbernes.
Anna Hermandsdatter  K  Gift              Barn av Marithe; Hans Joensen, Smaaenge
Elen D.e             K  Gift              Barn av Marithe; Joen Johansen,
Hermandsdatter                            Schaaren
Elen D.y             K        32          Barn av Marithe; Tj. Hans Nielsen,
Hermandsdatter                            Sund. Verge Ole Hermandsen, Hilseth.
Karen Hermandsdatter K  Gift              Barn av Marithe; Niels Christensen, Dahle
Brynille Nielsdatter K  Død               Halvsøster
Joen Olsen           M                    Barn av Brynille; Brek.
Karen Olsdatter      K  Død               Barn av Brynille
Ole Andersen         M        8           Barn av Karen
Bolette Andersdatter K        12          Barn av Karen
Henriette            K        5           Barn av Karen; Verge Joen Olsen,
Andersdatter                              Brechneset.
Johannes Nielsen     M  Død               Halvbror
Joen Johannesen      M        18          Barn av Johannes
Johanna              K  Gift              Barn av Johannes; Hadsel i
Johannesdatter                            Westeraalen.

 

The original Nils Haagensen probate dated 2. August 1790:

Kildeinformasjon: Nordland fylke, Helgeland sorenskriveri, Skifteprotokoll 16B (3A 0067), 1789-1791, oppb: Statsarkivet i Trondheim.

Merknader: Skifteprotokoll 1788-1791 i to bind (A og B). B har folio 297-602. Register i 16B. Uryddig kronologi.

Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/24896/225/

Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-sk20090224670225.jpg

 

Endret Juli 2, 2014 av Lars Østensen

[Margaret Miller]

Hi!  Margaret Miller here.  Lars has contacted me.  Somehow he found what we have written in Sømna Bygdebok.  The military rolls state that John was born in "Helgeland".  Here is what I have for the new version of Sømna Bygdebok that we hope will come sometime  Sømna was earlier called Vik i Helgeland.  It was under the larger parish of Brønnøy.

 

 

1:5 (1732-ca. 1762) Johannes Nilsen Brekk 1:1b f. 1707 d. 1788 på Brekk g. ca. 1732 Doret Olsdtr., enke etter Jens Hemingsen Kvaløya indre 1:4 g. II 1756 Ingeborg Jonsdtr. Mardal B:3c f. ca. 1731 d. 1802 Lekang nedre Hadsel hos dtr. Johanna (Hanna).

            IIa.  Anne Elsebe f. 1760 (d. før 1790?)

                b.  Johanna (Hanna) f. 1763 d. 1856 Fagerbakken Vågan g. ca. 1786 Ole Ingebrigtsen (Dishington).  Bosted Lekang nedre

                c.  Jon f. 1772 Mardal.  Johannes protesterte på å være faren.  Jon g. 1792 (forlovet Hadsel), Anna  Agatha Tellemann (Eriksdtr.).  Bosted Lekang.  Jon var enkem. hos søstera Johanna i 1801.  (Han kan være den Jon Meldahl d. 1846 g. II 1803 Hadsel, Ragnhild Johannesdtr.  Bosted Lekang, seinere Imbjør Hadsel.  Ved militærrullene var han født på Helgeland)

 

Note that Johannes says he was not the father of this boy, but here you see Ingeborg Jonsdtr. is his mother.  Also note Jon/John has a sister Hanna/Johanna.  She was godparent to one of the children you had the link to (can't remember-1803 or the next one).  I wonder where the name Meldahl comes from!  Is it a form of Mardal (farm in Somna he was born on), or does he finally know who his real father is?

I am leaning toward thinking this is the correct info. for Jon/John, but don't quite dare erase the "can be".  I'm leaning to changing it to trolig (probably).  If you want more from Mardal, just ask.  margaretmiller4@charter.net

 

Margaret

Endret Juli 3, 2014 av Margaret Miller

[Lars Østensen]

#39 Thanks to Margaret Miller for the information provided in this debate. One bit of vital information is that John Johannesen daughter from the marriage with Anna Agatha Tellemann, Gunhild Marie, is confirmed from Lekang in 1808. In 1807 John Meldals daughter Anna Malena is born at Lekang......

 

Kildeinformasjon: Nordland fylke, Hadsel, Ministerialbok nr. 888A02 (1754-1811), Kronologisk liste 1808, side 142.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=16709&idx_id=16709&uid=ny&idx_side=-138
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb10101208290137.jpg

 

Kildeinformasjon: Nordland fylke, Hadsel, Ministerialbok nr. 888A02 (1754-1811), Kronologisk liste 1807, side 139.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=16709&idx_id=16709&uid=ny&idx_side=-135
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb10101208290134.jpg

 

In 1816 Gunhild Marie Johnsdatter and her first husbond Asbjørn Andersen had a child, Jon Andreas:

 

Kildeinformasjon: Nordland fylke, Hadsel i Hadsel, Ministerialbok nr. 888A04 /1 (1812-1820), Fødte og døpte 1816, side 162-163.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=16710&idx_id=16710&uid=ny&idx_side=-13
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20071106640668.jpg

 

On this event Ragnhild Johannesdatter Vasvig is one of the godfathers.....

 

In 1819 Gunhild and Asbjørn had a daughter, Anne Agathe:

 

Kildeinformasjon: Nordland fylke, Hadsel i Hadsel, Ministerialbok nr. 888A04 /1 (1812-1820), Fødte og døpte 1819, side 182-183.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=16710&idx_id=16710&uid=ny&idx_side=-23
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20071106640678.jpg

 

On this event John Meldal from Indbjør and Johan Albrigt Johnsen are godfathers.....

 

In my mind this leads to the conclusion that Jon Johannesen Lekang = John Meldal Lekang/Indbjør.

Endret Juli 3, 2014 av Lars Østensen

[Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen]

Many thanks to Lars & Margaret!

 

I must take some time to read over this.  It's a lot of information!   B)

[Lars Østensen]

One of the godfathers on Ole Ingebrigtsen, Lekangs, daughter Johanna is Joen Johans: Lechang

 

Kildeinformasjon: Nordland fylke, Hadsel, Ministerialbok nr. 888A02 (1754-1811), Kronologisk liste 1789, side 91.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=16709&idx_id=16709&uid=ny&idx_side=-85
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb10101208290086.jpg

 

One of the godmothers on Ole Ingebrigtsen, Lekangs, daughter Ane Elsebe is Ingebor JonsD: Lechang

 

Kildeinformasjon: Nordland fylke, Hadsel, Ministerialbok nr. 888A02 (1754-1811), Kronologisk liste 1791, side 97.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=16709&idx_id=16709&uid=ny&idx_side=-91
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb10101208290092.jpg

 

My presumption is that this is Johanna Johannesedatters brother and mother, and that they were both present in Hadsel around 1789-1791. If the information about Johannes Nilsens death in 1788 is correct, it's likely that they both travelled north to Johanna in Hadsel. This together with the information about Joen Johannesen confirmation from Lekang in 1788 fits.

[Margaret Miller]

I think since John Meldahl is godparent to Gunhild's child and that he is on a different farm than she is is very good proof.  I go now to Probably, but am now leaning toward making it for sure.  Your opinion Lars?  Margaret

 

Patricia, I have further back on John's mother.  We can't be positive about his father.

[Lars Østensen]

#43 I am pretty sure that Jon Johannesen = John Meldal. There are no sources cotradicting this, and all sources I've found points in the same direction.

 

For instance:

 

Kildeinformasjon: Nordland fylke, Hadsel i Hadsel, Ministerialbok nr. 888A05 /1 (1820-1836), Fødte og døpte 1823, side 40-41.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=16711&idx_id=16711&uid=ny&idx_side=-23
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20071106650036.jpg
 

Gunhild Marie as a widow and an Ole Andersen have twins here. Ane Malena Johnsdatter Indbjør is one of the godmothers.

 

The probate of Gunhild Maries second husbond were held in Indbjør:

 

Skifte etter John Olsen Hoeggen, Indbjør i Ulvøy
Ektefelle: Gunhild Marie Johnsdatter. Internt skiftenr: 4562. Skiftet åpnet: 7/9-1836. Side: 588. Løpenr: 94.
Arvinger:
Formue: 129-1-17. Gjeld: 140-3-14. Fallittbo.
Film eller link: HF1987
Gunhild Marie Johnsdatter, .
Hustru av avdøde. Gift. Ektefelle: John Olsen.

 

Kildeinformasjon: Nordland fylke, Hadsel, Ministerialbok nr. 888A02 (1754-1811), Kronologisk liste 1797, side 117.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=16709&idx_id=16709&uid=ny&idx_side=-112
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb10101208290112.jpg

 

When Joe Meldal Lechang are stated as the father of Dorthe Nilsdatter Indbjørs child Joen in 1797. Which Joe Meldal is this? The only Jon on Lekang in 1801 = Jon Johannesen with daughter Gunhild and mother Ingeborg Jonsdatter. This son is also mentioned in the military records as a son of John Meldal, and age 23 in 1820.
 

His father is a completly different question. I guess that Johannes Nielsen is his father and the reason he denied it was problem in the marriage with Ingeborg Jonsdatter. However Johannes Nilsen was an old man in 1772, and there are a fair chance that the genetic father was someone else.... We will probably never no..... The sources tells that Johannes Nilsen were the legal father so we probably have to settle with this....

Endret Juli 3, 2014 av Lars Østensen

[Margaret Miller]

I agree about John's father.  Perhaps he was old and that is the reason, but perhaps he was away also.  If I were the descendant, I would have to stop with this father and put ?

 

I think I'll have to go with this as fact.  It certainly seems so!  Very many reasons.

 

Margaret

[Margaret Miller]

Just a note to say for the 1797 baptism, the name is Joen, and father is Joen.  It is just hard to see it.  Joen/John/Jon is same name.

[Lars Østensen]

Is it plausibel that the Ingeborg Jonsdatter married to Johannes Nilsen in 1756 were born in about 1731? I think the age 70 in the 1801 census are to low on Ingeborg Jonsdatter.....

 

Or maybe not... 24-25 in 1756 and a son born in 1772 is plausibel....

Endret Juli 3, 2014 av Lars Østensen

[Margaret Miller]

We have no church records from 1725-1752, but probates etc.  Here is family for Ingeborg from Mardal B:3:

 

B:3 (1723-1769) Jon Aabjørnsen Mardal B:2b f. 1701 d. 1772 g. ca. 1726 Anne Jonsdtr. f. 1700 d. 1785, dtr. av gbr. Jon Larsen og Margrete Tollefsdtr. Mo Brø. (se 3:6b der).  Se Dyngeset 1:12 for Annes søsken og halvsøsken på Sømna.

                a.  Nils f. ca. 1726 d. før 1772 Troms ug. (han var forlovet med Malene Antonisdtr.)

                b.  Tarald f. ca. 1728, levde i 1785.  Se Mardal B:4 og Malm nedre 2:4

                c.  Ingeborg f. ca. 1731 d. 1802.  Se Kvaløya indre 1:5

                d.  Jon f. ca. 1732, bortreist, men ingen visste hvorhen i 1785.  Oppgitt å ha “incurable brot” i minitær rulle fra 1750

                e.  Inger Margrete f. ca. 1732 d. 1788.  Se Mardal B:5

                f.  Iver f. 1740 (Brø. KB) d. ung

[Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen]

This is a most interesting exchange of information.  I need to sit down and absorb it all!  B)   Also, it is so interesting to see the "thought process" involved when someone writes a bygdebok!  Very interesting indeed...

 

Again, thank you both!

[Patricia Carlsen Mikkelsen]

Is this the death of Johannes Nielsen?  What is the farm name?  It doesn't look like any of the farm names I've seen associated with him so far...  About 3/4 of the way down the left side of the page... (død 16 Mai)

 

Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=16511&idx_id=16511&uid=ny&idx_side=-133