Finding Sailors

[Glen Johnson]

Hi, I'm new to the forum, live in Canada and only speak English. Researching my family history. I hope this is the right place to ask the following questions......My grandfather was Johan Adolf Johansen b. 1869 in Soon (Saner Kirke), Vestby, Akershus and as family legend has it, he was a sailor/sailmaker before he came to Canada later in his life. I've found many records in the digitalarkivet and other sources about him. I have his Sailor Muster Roll records (#368 and #363 in the Son Muster Rolls here: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/42047/3?indexing=).  I'm now trying to find the ship logs for the ships he served on during his service in the merchant navy from 1885 to 1889 (example - on the ship Cecilie).  Where is the best place for me to try to find those crew lists / logs?  Thanks!

[Ivar Moe]

I suppose you mean this Johan Adolf ?

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01052034001717

[Glen Johnson]

That's correct. Throughout his life he used both Adde and Johansen as last names, which was confusing to me. His birth record (https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/5746/29250/53) shows his fathers name of Johan Adolf Johansen Adde. I have a detailed history built out on the Ancetry.ca website of his life.

[Glen Johnson]

I'm trying to find out the details of 2 things really: (1) the details of his sailing time during his time in the Merchant Navy (if that's the correct term) and (2) where he ended up sailing after his time with the Merchant Navy (post 1889) until he eventually sailed on a ship in 1924 out of Narvik and then ended up in Canada (see this record: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/42043/41).  Thanks.

[Glen Johnson]

I appreciate any advice anyone has to refer me to places that I can look to continue my research to find out details of his voyages. Thank you.

[Glen Johnson]

Also very curious to learn what the writing on this Confirmation Record means for person number 11 - Johan Adolf Johansen?  https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/565/3845/7   What does the date and the  "+" mean?  He doesn't die then.  Is that a date of emigration to somewhere else?

 

There are very obvious records showing him alive and getting married after that date written (see couple 62 at https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/5415/27612/276).

 

Thank you.

 

 

[Richard Johan Natvig]

 

SAO, Son mønstringskontor, F/Fc/Fcb/L0005: Hovedrulle, 1882, s. 41
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru20090506640041
 

Earlier travels, No 368 here:

SAO, Son mønstringskontor, F/Fc/Fca/L0003: Annotasjonsrulle, 1883-1911, s. 3
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru20090415660435
 

 

 

[Glen Johnson]

Thank you Richard. These versions help very much and show clearer detail. It now confirms that he still lived in Tofte in 1922.

 

Would you know where I could look to find the logs or manifests for the ships that he sailed on? 

[Richard Johan Natvig]

3 timer siden, Glen Johnson skrev:

Also very curious to learn what the writing on this Confirmation Record means for person number 11 - Johan Adolf Johansen?  https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/565/3845/7   What does the date and the  "+" mean?  He doesn't die then.  Is that a date of emigration to somewhere else?

 

Most likely the minister marked out his name with a cross in connection with writing a certificate (birth or confirmation), "Att. 22/10 98" = "certificate 22 Nov. 1898"  that Johan Adolf had requested for one or another reason (usually marriage, or employment).

 

As for finding ship logs for the ships he served on, you are not likely to find any, since there is no central archive for such logs. Some (few) have been kept and may be found in private archives or in some museums, but there is no (to my knowledge) easy way to find them. 

 

I notice in the rolls that he deserted ship a couple of times ("rømt").

 

In this roll

SAO, Son mønstringskontor, F/Fc/Fcb/L0003: Hovedrulle, 1881-1914, p. 41
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru20090415660041
the comment at the right says: "Skal være i Australien" = "Supposedly in Australia", and: "Fyrbøter & lemper" = "Stoker & (coal) heaver"

[Glen Johnson]

Once again, I cant thank you enough.  This is so helpful. He died just before I was born, but he told my father and mother that he spent time sailing down in New South Wales, Australia. I guess he wasn't making that up. Not a great reputation as a man who deserted his ship on many occasions!  One last question for you Richard, if you don't mind?  What does "ull" mean in the Roll's for the destination?  Does that mean they don't know where the ship was going? 

 

Greatly appreciate your responses.

[Richard Johan Natvig]

1 minutt siden, Glen Johnson skrev:

What does "ull" mean in the Roll's for the destination? 

 

Unclear handwriting, but I think from my experience it should be "udl", short for "udland" ("abroad"), meaning simply that the exact destination was not yet decided. 

[Glen Johnson]

Awesome. Thank you.

[Glen Johnson]

1 hour ago, Richard Johan Natvig said:

 

Unclear handwriting, but I think from my experience it should be "udl", short for "udland" ("abroad"), meaning simply that the exact destination was not yet decided. 

Robert, great advice.  One more "last" question! Haha....on this Roll (https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/42484/41) what do you think it says next to "London"?  Thank you

[Glen Johnson]

Sorry, Richard.....

[Richard Johan Natvig]

"London rømt": "London deserted",  can’t make out the rest, "... Bog ...kommet"

 

Correction, the rest possibly: "Søf Bog indkommet" =Søfarts Bog indkommet = meaning his Discharge book had been handed in (by the captain on the ship).

Endret Desember 27, 2019 av Richard Johan Natvig

[Glen Johnson]

Amazing.  Completely fits with the family legend.  Just called my father who is 89 years old and he's thrilled to hear "we" have proved out the stories. Thank you so much

1 hour ago, Richard Johan Natvig said:

"London rømt": "London deserted",  can’t make out the rest, "... Bog ...kommet"

 

Correction, the rest possibly: "Søf Bog indkommet" =Søfarts Bog indkommet = meaning his Discharge book had been handed in (by the captain on the ship).

Amazing.  Completely fits with the family legend.  Just called my father who is 89 years old and he's thrilled to hear "we" have proven out the stories to be true. Thank you so much Richard.

[Richard Johan Natvig]

8 timer siden, Glen Johnson skrev:

Amazing.  Completely fits with the family legend.  Just called my father who is 89 years old and he's thrilled to hear "we" have proved out the stories. Thank you so much

Glad to hear it, thanks for reporting back.

[Glen Johnson]

On 12/28/2019 at 3:05 AM, Richard Johan Natvig said:

Glad to hear it, thanks for reporting back.

Richard (or others), another task from Canada if you're up for it. I believe this Christian Larsen (the second line 15) to be my 2nd great grandfather (https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7527/38233/6). He out-migrates from Valer, Ostfold to Krogstad, Krakstad, Akershus with his young wife. There is an equivalent in-migrate record in Krakstad. I'm struggling with what the words / place might be after "Larsen" and before "Gunild".....any help is much appreciated. 

[Richard Johan Natvig]

Hi Glen,

 

The placename (name of farm) is "Folkestad, I read the entry:

 

Christian Larsen Folke

stad med Hustrue

Gunild Erichsdatter

Endret Januar 18, 2020 av Richard Johan Natvig

[Ann-Mary Engum]

5 timer siden, Richard Johan Natvig skrev:

Hi Glen,

 

The placename (name of farm) is "Folkestad, I read the entry:

 

Christian Larsen Folke

stad med Hustrue

Gunild Erichsdatter

 

Name:	Christian Larsen
Birth Date:	1792
Age:	39
Spouse's Name:	Gunild Erichsdr
Spouse's Birth Date:	1805
Spouse's Age:	26
Event Date:	19 Feb 1831
Event Place:	Vaaler,Ostfold,Norway

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NWDV-3P2

 

No 1,1831

 

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7527/209

 

No 1

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7528/210

 

----

Elen Sophia Christensen

Norway Baptisms, 1634-1927

Name:	Elen Sophia Christensen
Gender:	Female
Birth Date:	09 Dec 1831
Christening Date:	15 Jan 1832
Christening Place:	, KRAAKSTAD, AKERSHUS, NORWAY
Father's Name:	Christian Larsen
Mother's Name:	Gunnild Erichsdr

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N4HW-PFH

 

No 7

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7559/51

 

----

Christensen

Norway Baptisms, 1634-1927

Name:	Christensen
Gender:	Male
Birth Date:	05 May 1834
Birthplace:	, KRAAKSTAD, AKERSHUS, NORWAY
Death Date:	05 May 1834
Father's Name:	Christian Larsen
Mother's Name:	Gunnild Erichsdr

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VWL6-7HM

Attached to:

 

Christensen

1834–1834 • K63N-F96

 

 

Dødfødte

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7559/172

 

----

Anne Maria Christensen

Norway Baptisms, 1634-1927

Name:	Anne Maria Christensen
Gender:	Female
Birth Date:	16 Nov 1835
Christening Date:	25 Dec 1835
Christening Place:	, KRAAKSTAD, AKERSHUS, NORWAY
Father's Name:	Christian Larsen
Mother's Name:	Gunnild Erichsdr

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N4H4-M4L

 

No 4

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7559/85

 

----

Maren Mathea Christensen

Norway Baptisms, 1634-1927

Name:	Maren Mathea Christensen
Gender:	Female
Christening Date:	26 Jan 1840
Christening Place:	, KRAAKSTAD, AKERSHUS, NORWAY
Father's Name:	Christian Larsen
Mother's Name:	Gunhil Eriksdr

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VWPQ-LPT

 

No 6

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/523/14

 

----

Gunhil Christensen

Norway Baptisms, 1634-1927

Name:	Gunhil Christensen
Gender:	Female
Christening Date:	13 Apr 1845
Christening Place:	, KRAAKSTAD, AKERSHUS, NORWAY
Father's Name:	Christian Larsen
Mother's Name:	Gunhil Eriksdr

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VWPQ-G32

 

No 22

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/523/39

 

----

 

Gunild Eriksd died 6 apr. 1845.

 

No 16

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/523/122

 

 

Endret Januar 18, 2020 av Ann-Mary Engum

[Glen Johnson]

Thank you!  Those connections are all correct. My trail goes cold for Christian and Gunnild though. My challenge at this point is finding WHERE Christian Larsen and Gunnild Erichsdatter were BORN.  In their migration records from Valer to Krakstad, and in their Marriage records, would "Folkestad" be the place they lived at that time, or where they were both born?  Appreciate your help.

[Richard Johan Natvig]

1 minutt siden, Glen Johnson skrev:

In their migration records from Valer to Krakstad, and in their Marriage records, would "Folkestad" be the place they lived at that time, or where they were both born?

 

Without having seen the marriage record, I would assume it is the farm where they lived at that time (and also when they out-migrated, see#19)

[Ann-Mary Engum]

På 27.12.2019 den 0.09, Glen Johnson skrev:

That's correct. Throughout his life he used both Adde and Johansen as last names, which was confusing to me. His birth record (https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/5746/29250/53) shows his fathers name of Johan Adolf Johansen Adde. I have a detailed history built out on the Ancetry.ca website of his life.

 

 

Anne Marie Christiansdr

Norway Marriages, 1660-1926

Name:	Johan Edevard Johannesen
Spouse's Name:	Anne Marie Christiansdr
Event Date:	13 Apr 1861
Event Place:	, Vestby, Akershus, Norway

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NWQK-H5C

 

No 9

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/5745/88

[Glen Johnson]

Their marriage record is https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7527/209 which also shows "Folkestad".....I assume this is where they both lived at that time, not where they were born....I'm trying to find out where they were both born.  There is a Christian Larsen born in Aker in 1791, but I know that is NOT him.  I also found a Chritian Larsen born in Krakstad, but not until 1793.....and it seems odd that he would have out-migrated from Krakstad and then in-migrated back there later in life....the search continues!!

[Glen Johnson]

Ann-Mary, in the marriage record above for Johan and Anne Marie, where does it say that Anne Marie was born?  Krogstad??  Thanks.