William Hammond Trondheim

[Per.H.Skaug]

Is it likely that a scion of an armored family Hammond of Ufford would become a goldsmith in Torndheim? If there are two (or more) William Hammonds in Trondheim at the same time, is it not most likely that the goldsmith William Hammond is not identical to William Hammond of Ufford?

[Anita Holck]

Jeg sitter her med "Trondhjems borgerskap 1680-1730" utgitt av Norsk Slektshistorisk Forening, Tore H Vigerust og medutgivere, Oslo 2000.

Det er over 80 tettskrevne sider (og liten skrift), og jeg hopper litt hit og dit og frem og tilbake.

 

s. 47. 6. Notis over de personer som har vunnet sine borgerskap siden rådstueskriveren Friderich Bechs ankomst, 1692-1706:

V - 1694: d: 15 May Villiam Hamond Kiøbmand (s. 50)

 

s. 51. Albert Angell: Allerunderdanigst Memorial 1701:

.... Disse effterskrefne ere de fornembste, Claus Kemeler, Hendrich Hornemand, Christian Frost, Johan Mølmand, Jacob Withe, Thomas Haman, Jockum Manzin, Andreas Højer, Jacob Hølken, Lorens Angel, Williem Hamand, Hans Kemeler, Bastian Krenkel, Hendrich Carstensen, Poul Poulsen, Lorens Hansen Holst, Johan Lyders, af huilche der kunde udwelgis, saa mange som deris Kongl: Mayts. allernaad.te wille behage at beskicke till Byens wisse Mænd ....." (s. 53)

 

s. 56. Trondhjems Byes idzige Negotiantere deles fornemmelig udi 3de Classer:

1. Capitale Kjøbmænd og de som tvinger Handelen for de mindre formaaende, nemlig:

1. Assistents-Raad og Præsident Albert Angel med hans 4 svogre:

2. Jochum Matzinus

3. Johan Hamond

4. Lorentz Jacobsen Angel, som tillige er Stadsmægler - Alle Trondhjems Jndfødte

5. Johan Mølmand, en Flensborger

.....

10. Bastian Krenckel - Hamborgere

....

15. Lorentz Hansen Holst - Flensborgere

 

2. De middelmaadige og formuende Negotiantere:

....

22. William Hamond, en Engelskmand

...

3. De mindre formuende og en Deel unge negotiantere

....

54. Thomas Hamond - Trondhjems Jndfødte

 

s. 58. E. Johan Wibe: En del av Trondhjems innvåneres tilstand og deres sinns karakter 1708:

....

William Haman, af engelsk Extraction, er en redelig god Borgermand; lider heller Uret end gjør den, har et almindeliggt godt Lov, og er ved middelmaadige Midler.

(Videre står det om bl.a. Jonas Angel (en gnier av største slag), Lorentz Angel, Præsident Angels Enke (staar sig meget vel; elsker inderligen Penge), Lars Hansen Holst, Johan Mølmands enke, Johan Haman (er en formuendes Mand, mens en Qvæker af Religion og inclineret til skjulte Skalkheder) osv.

 

Jeg tror ikke det er tvil om at William Hammond er født i England.

[Arnstein Rønning]

I have the book Heraldisk nøkkel by Herman L. Løvenskiold

 

The book is based on heraldic found in Norway. About Hammond it says (in Norwegian):

 

Skjold

Blomster 4-bladet 1 i skjoldets sentrum

Kløvd i blått og gull (eller) rødt g blått

Kløverbladkors (krykkekors?) 1 i sentrum av feltet

Kuler, 3 små i sentrum av skjoldet

Leopard, 1 kronet gående 1 & 2

Løve, 1 gående

Løver, 3 gående, den nederste på delingslinjen

Løver, 3 gående i 2. 1.

Slangestjerne, 1 i feltets sentrum

 

Hjelm

Dyrehode, 1 over 3 blomster

Fuglehode med krone, 1 med ring rundt halsen

Løve, en 1/2

Løvehode, 1

Ulvehode, 1

 

All motivs on the cup picture is to be found above.

 

One thing different on the ring, is the crutch-cross on the neck of the wulf on the helmet (the cup has 3 flowers same place).

 

I will add that I have ancestry from Trondheim, and I get 23 DNA-matches with Hammond ancestors, some of them even with Hammond surname themselves. 12 of the matches are Americans. One living in South Africa, one in Australia and one in France. I can't figure out how this comes, but I have probably a NPE in the Trondheim area. I will not go out with the name of the suspected NPE. I will have a closer look at this.

[Inger Hohler]

Quote

Is it likely that a scion of an armored family Hammond of Ufford would become a goldsmith in Torndheim? If there are two (or more) William Hammonds in Trondheim at the same time, is it not most likely that the goldsmith William Hammond is not identical to William Hammond of Ufford?

The William Hammond who bought a town house in the parish of Vor Frue from a goldsmith did not buy it from another Hammond. We also know that in the probate record of 1710, the deceased  is called a 'negotiant' which is someone who deals in gross. He was not a goldsmith himself.

Part of the trouble here is what you have noticed yourself: There are a lot of William Hammonds. And you might think that there would not be more than one in each generation, in Trondheim, but that might not be entirely true.
Again, Brodal, https://www.nb.no/nbsok/nb/9de5c68da90826335a68a52282dc4163?index=4#11 Personalhistoriske magistratsattester 

November 29th 1682:  It was feared that the young Thomas Thomasson Hamond, only 18, was too young to handle the estate that he inherited after his father's death. Thomas Hamond (presumably the young Thomas) promised to get in touch with his cousin of Lund, William Hamond, son of Johan Hamond, and see if he could get the cousin to vouch for him.
A William Hamonds son of Sr. Johan Hamond, of England.
 

On February 20th 1683, the reply from William Hamonds, son of Johan Hamond, of England was presented.

Obviously, this is another William Hamond than the one who died in 1710 in Trondheim. The patronym is not the same. But as he was the cousin of an 18 year old, and presumably more mature, he was likely of roughly the same age as the William Williamson Hamond.

[Inger Hohler]

Trying to translate the gist of Anita Holck's message, knowing I will probably make some errors or inaccuracies, for which I apologize in advance:
 

I have here "Trondhjems borgerskap 1680-1730" pubished by Norsk Slektshistorisk Forening (Norwegian Genealogical Society), Tore H Vigerust and others, Oslo 2000.

There are more than 80 pages with small types and narrow line distance, and I'm jumping back and forth:

 

Page. 47. 6. Note of the persons who have attained their citizenship since the arrival of the 'rådstueskrivere' Friderich Bechs  1692-1706:

V - 1694: d: 15 May Villiam Hamond Kiøbmand (page. 50)

 

page. 51. Albert Angell: Most obedident servant Memorial 1701:

.... The following are the most noble/prominent:, Claus Kemeler, Hendrich Hornemand, Christian Frost, Johan Mølmand, Jacob Withe, Thomas Haman, Jockum Manzin, Andreas Højer, Jacob Hølken, Lorens Angel, Williem Hamand, Hans Kemeler, Bastian Krenkel, Hendrich Carstensen, Poul Poulsen, Lorens Hansen Holst, Johan Lyders, of which there could be choosen as many as it would please your Royal Majesty's grace, to send to the town certain men..." (page. 53)

 

page. 56. The 'Negotiants' (traders in gross) in the town of Trondhjem can be divided in 3 classes:

1. The leading traders with a capital who rule the trade market for the less affluent, namely :

1. 'Assistents-Raad' and President Albert Angel med his 4 brothers-in-law:

2. Jochum Matzinus

3. Johan Hamond

4. Lorentz Jacobsen Angel, who is also a Town broker (not quite sure if there is an equivalent for 'bymægler' - Alle born in Trondhjem 

5. Johan Mølmand, a Flemish citizen

.....

10. Bastian Krenckel - a citizen from Hamburg

....

15. Lorentz Hansen Holst - a Flemish citizen

 

2. De intermediate traders with a capital 'negotiants':

....

22. William Hamond, an Engelskmand

...

3. The less affluent and some young 'negotiants'

....

54. Thomas Hamond - born in Trondhjem

 

Page. 58. E. Johan Wibe: En del av Trondhjems innvåneres tilstand og deres sinns karakter 1708 (The state of some of Trondheim's inhabitants and their character):

....

 

William Haman, of English descent, is a good, honest citizen; would rather suffer an indignity than cause one, has a good reputation (?Lov) and is of intermediate age.

(There are further descriptions of among others, Jonas Angel (a serious miser), Lorentz Angel, Præsident Angels Enke (has a pretty fortune; greatly loves money), Lars Hansen Holst, Johan Mølmands enke, Johan Haman (is a man of fortune, but a Qaker by Religion and inclined to  hidden vices) etc.

 

I have no doubt that William Hammond was born in England."

Endret Mars 8, 2021 av Inger Hohler
spelling mistakes

[Anita Holck]

1 time siden, Inger Hohler skrev:

November 29th 1682:  It was feared that the young Thomas Thomasson Hamond, only 18, was too young to handle the estate that he inherited after his father's death. Thomas Hamond (presumably the young Thomas) promised to get in touch with his cousin of Lund, William Hamond, son of Johan Hamond, and see if he could get the cousin to vouch for him.
A William Hamonds son of Sr. Johan Hamond, of England.
 

On February 20th 1683, the reply from William Hamonds, son of Johan Hamond, of England was presented.

 

(s. 7) "Riktig manntall og skattelegg over Domkirke sogns borgere, innvånere og endel utliggere, 4 juni 1683":

Thomas og Villum Haman for Tomas Hamans gaard oc grund Jtem for Niels Pederssens gaard oc brøgeplan sampt Byfodens Platz  60 Rdr.

 

Da er nok dette fetteren William Johansen Hammond som har kommet til hjelp

 

INGEN andre i Trondheim betaler så mye! Johan Mølmand (g. Anne Thomasdatter Hammond) og Homfred Brygmann betaler hver 30 Rdr., Amptschriffuer Peter Casbøll 24 Rdr., Apotekeren Arnoldus von Westen 16 Rdr.

 

I Vår Frue sogn ligger på topp Rådmann Lorentz Mortensen som betaler 40 + 1 Rdr. og Morten Lorentsen Angell (g. Elisabeth Thomasdatter Hammond) 30 Rdr.

 

(s. 18) I Manntallet over Trondhjems bys familier og håndkverner 5 mars 1687 finner jeg i

3 Rode. 191. Homfred Brygman med kone, 10 barn og tjenere - 19 personer (1 handquern)

5. Rode. 291. Tomas Hamand, hans hustru, 2 tiennestefolch -4 personer

9. Rode. 480. Lorentz Morttensen med kjæreste, 1 datter og 6 umyndige barn, en presepter og tjenestefolk - 18 personer

10. Rode, 545. Morten Mortenssen Angel, 10 morløse barn,  2 tjenestefolk - 13 personer (1 handquern)

 

(s. 37) Om regulering av handelen - Trundhiem d. 17 Sept. 1683 - her er det ramset opp alle mulige varer, erter og kringler, takstein og tobakk, såpe og slipesteiner, papir, penner og hattebånd osv.

 

Der imot nu befindende negotianter

1. Raadmand L: Mortensen

8. Homfred Brygmand

10. Claus Holst

12. Hendrich Hornemand

44. Thomas Hamandt

 

(s. 39) Revideret forslag: Handelen kan på etterfølgende måte bekvemt divideres, 2 juni 1684

1.

RaadMand L: Mortensen

Hendrich Hornemand

Marcus Nissen

Med Silche Vahrer alleslags, U-meent Sye og Stuch-silche, Litz Corder og andre baand

2.

Johan Wessel

Morten Lorensen

Johan Møllman

William Hamondt

Thomas Hamondt

M: Persie

Med Klæde, Kirsey, Bay, 4 lod og andre UllenStofer, som Sarsie alleslags etc:

 

Eller og efter dend gundtige Magistratz bedre Eragtning disse 2de Numer udj Een Classe.

 

Muligens er dette også fetteren William Johansen Hammond.

William Williamson Hammond må ha kommet senere, rundt 1687 og fikk borgerskap  som kjøpmann 15/5-1694.

 

The visitation of London 1687 forteller at William Williamsen Hammond  "now living in Norway being a Mercht. there unmarried aet. 23 an"

[Medes Hammond-Norden]

YOU ALL ARE SO WONDERFUL AND HELPED SO MUCH!!!! THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR OVERWHELMING SUPPORT!!!

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

 

Today I talked to the heraldist and he suggested to put all things together and mail the Herold. That's what I did tonight. I'm quiete sure that I have enough primary and secondary prooves and if not, I'll send the parts you, Inger, mentioned from Brodahl.

I'm extremely interested in all the textes you mentioned, Inger. And I can read your english - it's wonderfully written for me!! I get everything you mean.

 

I'd like to keep in touch with this forum and will look daily for new informations!

 

If you're interested in, I'll give you an update, as soon as I have response from the Herold society.

[Anita Holck]

Den siste:

(s. 41) Kong Christian 5.s forordning om handelens inndeling 3 mars 1686

....

2. Classe

Johan Wessel, Morten Lorentzen, Johan Mølmand, William Hamand, Thomas Hamand oc M: Persie, med Klæde, Kirsryy, Bay, Fire lod oc andre Ulden-Stoffer som Sarge alle slags etc:

[Medes Hammond-Norden]

22 minutter siden, Anita Holck skrev:

Muligens er dette også fetteren William Johansen Hammond.

 

William Williamson Hammond må ha kommet senere, rundt 1687 og fikk borgerskap  som kjøpmann 15/5-1694.

 

The visitation of London 1687 forteller at William Williamsen Hammond  "now living in Norway being a Mercht. there unmarried aet. 23 an"

Please find here the copy of the heraldic visitation the College of Arms, London, sent me.

On the right side you'll find "my" William, no "Wiliamsen" can be found (but it could be that Williamsen only means Williams son, which is correct), in 1687 he is 23 three years old which means, he was born 1664.

In the left side you'll find his uncle Thomas, who also moved to Trondheim.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xhwqnfzgtvpz5eb/Foto 27.06.19%2C 20 35 13.png?dl=0

[Inger Hohler]

Anita Holck points out:
(page 7 in) "Riktig manntall og skattelegg over Domkirke sogns borgere, innvånere og endel utliggere, 4 juni 1683":
('Correct census and taxation of the citizens, inhabitants, and some 'outliers', 4th of June 1683'
'outliers' were the collective name for traders who had permission to trade with the fisheries in the north of Norway)

Thomas and Villum Haman for Tomas Hamans house and grounds Item: for Niels Pederssens house and  pier as well as 'Byfodens Platz'  60 Riksdaler (monetary unit).

(It is possible that 'Byfodens Platz' is an open area that belonged to the bailiff, because the bailiff in Norwegian is 'byfogden' , but if it is not a spelling mistake it means 'the open space at the foot of the town.')

 

This is probably the cousin William Johansen Hammond who'd come to help (i.e. help the the young son of Thomas Hamond)

 

NOONE else in Trondheim pay as much! Johan Mølmand (married to. Anne Thomasdatter Hammond) and Homfred Brygmann each pay 30 Rdr., Amptschriffuer Peter Casbøll 24 Rdr., Apotekeren Arnoldus von Westen 16 Rdr.

 

In the parish of  Vår Frue the top contributor is Rådmann (councilor) Lorentz Mortensen who pays 40 + 1 Rdr. and Morten Lorentsen Angell (married to Elisabeth Thomasdatter Hammond) 30 Rdr.

 

(page 18) In 'Manntallet over Trondhjems bys familier og håndkverner 5 mars 1687' (The census of families and hand querns in the town of Trondhjem, March 5th 1687')

I find, in the

3 'Rode' (the towns were divided into parts called 'rodes'). 191. Homfred Brygman with wife, 10 children and servants - 19 persons (1 hand quern)

5. Rode. 291. Tomas Hamand, his wife, 2 servants -4 persons

9. Rode. 480. Lorentz Morttensen with 'kjæreste' (also means wife, but denotes a high status), 1 daughter and 6 under age children, a 'presepter' (probably means private teacher) and servant - 18 persons

10. Rode, 545. Morten Mortenssen Angel, 10 motherless children,  2 servants - 13 persons (1 hand quern)

 

(page 37) Om regulering av handelen - Trundhiem d. 17 Sept. 1683 (About the regulation of trade - Trondheim Sept. 17th 1683)

- here a lot of wares are listed, such as peas and pretzels, roof tiles and tobacco, soap and grind stones, paper, pennes and hat bands etc.

 

The now existing 'negotiants' (traders in gross)

1. Raadmand L: Mortensen

8. Homfred Brygmand

10. Claus Holst

12. Hendrich Hornemand

44. Thomas Hamandt

 

(page. 39) Revised suggestion: The trade can easily be divided in the following ways,  June 2nd. 1684

1.

RaadMand (councilor) L: Mortensen

Hendrich Hornemand

Marcus Nissen

with all kinds of silk wares, U-meent silk for sowing and silk for 'stukk' (I believe this is for covering the walls like a wallpaper, possibly as a way to anchor plaster), 'Litz Corder' and other cords

2.

Johan Wessel

Morten Lorensen

Johan Møllman

William Hamondt

Thomas Hamondt

M: Persie (I have no idea what this is!)

with cloth, Kirsey (ditto), Bay (ditto), 4 lod (sounds like a thickness) and other wool fabrics, such as all kinds of Sarsie  (I believe this is a variant for serge, which in this setting may mean a wool-silk blend, or a wool-goat hari blend) etc:

 

Or and after the thorough Magistrate's better idea, those two numbers in one class.

 

This might possibly be the cousin William Johansen Hammond.

William Williamson Hammond must have come later, 1687 and secured citizenship as a merchant 15/5-1694.

 

The visitation of London 1687 inform us that William Williamsen Hammond  "now living in Norway being a Mercht. there unmarried aet. 23 an"

 

[Inger Hohler]

Quote

(but it could be that Williamsen only means Williams son, which is correct)

yes, inserting the name of the father with -son or -daughter attached is a common way here to keep track of all the "Ola's" and "Kari's" out there.
And yes, it would be nice to hear an update 🙂

Endret Mars 9, 2021 av Inger Hohler
added citation and comment

[Marianne Holck]

Have you seen this reference?

 

https://www.genealogi.no/wiki/index.php/Register_til_søknader_om_bevillinger_i_Stattholderarkivet_1689–1715

 

Erlend Eriksen Mæhlum has made a list of all couples who applied for permission from the king to marry in their home instead of in the church (mostly wealthy people), taken from this archive: Arkivportalen. Arkivverket. Riksarkivet. Stattholderembetet 1572-1771 - RA/EA-2870.

 

On page 62 in Erlends list (Register til søknader om bevillinger i Stattholderarkivet 1689–1715) you will find that Abel Margrethe Angel og William Hammond applied for this permission from Trondheim in the year 1700.

 

hilsen Marianne

 

[knut fasting]

13 timer siden, Arnstein Rønning skrev:

I have the book Heraldisk nøkkel by Herman L. Løvenskiold

 

The book is based on heraldic found in Norway. About Hammond it says (in Norwegian):

 

Skjold

Blomster 4-bladet 1 i skjoldets sentrum

Kløvd i blått og gull (eller) rødt g blått

Kløverbladkors (krykkekors?) 1 i sentrum av feltet

Kuler, 3 små i sentrum av skjoldet

Leopard, 1 kronet gående 1 & 2

Løve, 1 gående

Løver, 3 gående, den nederste på delingslinjen

Løver, 3 gående i 2. 1.

Slangestjerne, 1 i feltets sentrum

 

Hjelm

Dyrehode, 1 over 3 blomster

Fuglehode med krone, 1 med ring rundt halsen

Løve, en 1/2

Løvehode, 1

Ulvehode, 1

 

All motivs on the cup picture is to be found above.

 

One thing different on the ring, is the crutch-cross on the neck of the wulf on the helmet (the cup has 3 flowers same place).

 

I will add that I have ancestry from Trondheim, and I get 23 DNA-matches with Hammond ancestors, some of them even with Hammond surname themselves. 12 of the matches are Americans. One living in South Africa, one in Australia and one in France. I can't figure out how this comes, but I have probably a NPE in the Trondheim area. I will not go out with the name of the suspected NPE. I will have a closer look at this.

Legg merke til at våpnene på ringen og på sølvkruset er speilvendt !

[Knut Holt Sandblost]

6 timer siden, knut fasting skrev:

Legg merke til at våpnene på ringen og på sølvkruset er speilvendt !

Det er en signetring. Den må være speilvendt for at seglet skal bli riktig

[Medes Hammond-Norden]

8 timer siden, Marianne Holck skrev:

Have you seen this reference?

 

https://www.genealogi.no/wiki/index.php/Register_til_søknader_om_bevillinger_i_Stattholderarkivet_1689–1715

 

Erlend Eriksen Mæhlum has made a list of all couples who applied for permission from the king to marry in their home instead of in the church (mostly wealthy people), taken from this archive: Arkivportalen. Arkivverket. Riksarkivet. Stattholderembetet 1572-1771 - RA/EA-2870.

 

On page 62 in Erlends list (Register til søknader om bevillinger i Stattholderarkivet 1689–1715) you will find that Abel Margrethe Angel og William Hammond applied for this permission from Trondheim in the year 1700.

 

hilsen Marianne

 

This is wonderful!!!! Thank you, Marianne!!! 🙂

[Helene Dalen]

Hei! Er det noen her som vet hvem Edward Matthewson Hammond (1595- 1660)var i denne forbindelse. Det står at han kom fra Wessilton Hall i Suffolk, men jeg finner ikke et slikt sted. Han var angivelig far til William og Thomas Hammond.

[Medes Hammond-Norden]

Hi Helene,

 did you read the whole thread?

 On the first page I wrote a link to my Dropbox: 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w7lflmn1zn1xw1v/1 Pedigree Hammond of Ufford.pdf?dl=0

 

 there you’ll find a pedigree where also Edward Hammond is mentioned. It’s from the book Suffolk manorial families Vol. I 

 

Medes 🙂

[Berit Knudsen]

Helene. Jeg fant Wessilton Hall of Suffolk uten problem ved å søke på Google.

[Medes Hammond-Norden]

Hi to  everyone!
 

I promised to give you an update as soon as I have any news: 

Friday I finally received the Mail from the German Herold. They accepted all my proofs for my ancestors back to William Hammond 1635-1719, Suffolk, who was the father of “my” William, who moved from England to Trondheim in 1687.

 

Now we are officially allowed to carry the coat for arms.  
 

I wanted to say thank you again.. it was a great pleasure to “meet” you and to get your support.  Without this forum I would have given up!!!
 

Best regards to all of you and one day I’ll come to Trondheim. I already read a lot abbot this wonderful city!
stay healthy everyone!
 

best wishes, Medes 

[Inger Hohler]

On 3/9/2021 at 2:00 AM, Inger Hohler said:

M: Persie (I have no idea what this is!)

with cloth, Kirsey (ditto), Bay (ditto)

The book "Motebevisste vestfoldinger, Draktskikk i grevkapene 1700-1860" (Fashion conscious people from the county of Vestfold, Attire in the Counties 1700-1860) by L. E. Talleraas et al. ISBN 978-82-999049-1-9
says Bay is a thick and loosely woven woolen fabric in plain weave. It is smooth on one side and fluffy on the other.
Kirsey is  a coarse, loosely woven woolen fabric in a twill weave, originally produced in Kersey, Sussex, England.