1836 Baptism in Inderoy Parish (Salberg local parish), Nord-Trondelag

[Clark Monson]

Iver Olsen an illegitimate child was born and baptized in 1836. His father was Ole Rasmussen and his mother was Ingebor Hansdatter Wigen.  I am wondering if somebody can translate what it says about his father and also the comments in far side?  Does it say how many other children the parents have had?  Thank you very much!

Best Regards!

Clark Monson

Grand Forks, North Dakota

USA

[Ivar S. Ertesvåg]

"Forældrenes 2det Lejermaal Han har havt forhen i Sparboe uægte barn. Hun her."

 

(2nd child out of wedlock for parents. He has had one earlier in Sparboe. She here.)

[Richard Johan Natvig]

11 timer siden, Clark Monson skrev:

what it says about his father

Ole Rasmussen fra

Biørnør ungkarl ikke

militair

 

Ole Rasmussen from Bjørnør, bachelor not "militairy" (not a soldier / not in the military)

[Oddgeir Fossli]

For reference here is the link to the church-book:

 

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/16903/22

 

 

And here is her first child:

 

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/16421/210

 

 

 

 

[Clark Monson]

Thanks so much everybody!  I appreciate your help so much!

[Even Stormoen]

35 minutter siden, Richard Johan Natvig skrev:

Ole Rasmussen fra

Biørnør ungkarl ikke

militair

 

Ole Rasmussen from Bjørnør, bachelor not "militairy" (not a soldier / not in the military)

 

I suppose the reason for mentioning that he’s not a soldier, is that soldiers were exempt from being fined/punished for having children out of wedlock (leiermål).

 

Regards

Endret Mars 25, 2021 av Even Stormoen

[Oddgeir Fossli]

Does that exemption apply for a second child as well? I know soldiers had their first child out of wedlock for "free".

I was not aware that it applied if more than one child.

 

Yngve Nedrebø i Aftenposten:

 

https://www.aftenposten.no/norge/i/ngdX5/denne-loven-avlet-falske-fedre

 

Matroser og soldater var i loven fritatt for straff ved førstegangs forseelse. Årsaken var rett og slett at det var stort behov for dem i marinen og i hæren. Mange av disse påtok seg derfor ofte et farskap - mot god betaling.

 

— Det vil ha være et spørsmål om forhandling for å få en soldat eller matros til å ta på seg et farskap. Men siden de per definisjon slapp straff, antar jeg at det ikke kostet mange dalere. Men boten for leiermål ville for en mann være 12 daler, og var han gift, ville halve boet bli tatt til kongen, så det var mye å spare på å gi en soldat et par daler for jobben - som var en tjeners årslønn på den tiden.

[Even Stormoen]

Ahh, you're right. Forgot that ‹detail›. And this is his second ‹offense›. So no ‹Pardon›, I guess. Not for me either 😉

Thank You, Oddgeir.

 

Regards

[Clark Monson]

Thank you all, again!  Interesting to learn about soldiers having an illegitimate child and not getting fined!   I didn't know that there was a fine!!

[Oddgeir Fossli]

Even, good to see that the "experts" do mistakes as well. 🙂 

 

Thanks for that I found the interesting article by Yngve. 🙂

 

So when doing genealogy and one comes across a child born out of wedlock, one should keep in mind if a soldier is listed as the father. It may be  "fake news". A the farmer can be the real father, it was most likely done to avoid fines.

 

It was a old woman in Inderøy parish (my home parish by the way) said to me many years ago when I asked about a woman that had three children out of wedlock. She said: "We all know who the fathers of the children were due to neighbourhood talks and family resemblance, but we must use the names listed in the church-books otherwise it will be chaos". She did not tell me the names of the most likely fathers.

 

Clark: Norway had one the strictest laws in Europe regarding this issues. 

Endret Mars 25, 2021 av Oddgeir Fossli

[Even Stormoen]

1 time siden, Oddgeir Fossli skrev:

Even, good to see that the "experts" do mistakes as well. 🙂 

 

 

 Oddgeir: I´m flattered, but in no way an expert on anything – which should be apparent . . . 😉

 

Clark: 

A few attempts at translation, please forgive inaccuracies:

 

From here – https://www.norgeshistorie.no/enevelde/1254-Forbud-mot-sex-før-ekteskap.html

 

«According to King Christian 5's Norwegian Law from 1687, the penalty for the first Leiermål was to be punished with fines of 6 riksdaler for women and 12 riksdaler men. People's incomes varied greatly depending on their position and where and when they lived, but in 1711 the average annual salary for maids in Eastern Norway was 2.81 riksdaler, and for male servants 3.60 riksdaler. (These had board, lodging and clothes in addition to pure payment).

 

In addition to the fine to be paid to the bailiff, the offenders were to do public confession under the auspices of the church. The offender then had to stand before the congregation to confess his sins and ask for forgiveness, which was given by the priest after an exhortation speech. This served as a pure disgrace.

 

If you could not pay the fine, you should be punished in an alternative way. These so-called subsidiary punishments were constantly revised, from prison to gallows and penitentiary.»

 

 

What Oddgeir cited above, from Yngve Nedrebø:

 

«Sailors [naval] and soldiers were legally exempt from punishment for first-time offenses. The reason was simply that there was a great need for them in the navy and in the army. Many of these therefore often undertook paternity - for a good fee.

 

- It would have been a question of negotiation to get a soldier or sailor to take on a paternity. But since they by definition escaped punishment, I guess it did not cost many daler. But the fine for having a child out of wedlock would be 12 daler for a man, and if he were married, half the estate would be taken to the king, so it was a lot to save by giving a soldier a few daler for the job - which was a servant's annual salary at that time .»

 

Regards

Endret Mars 25, 2021 av Even Stormoen

[Clark Monson]

Very interesting!  Thank you so much!  What year did this law end in Norway?

Regards!

Clark

[Even Stormoen]

17 minutter siden, Clark Monson skrev:

 What year did this law end in Norway?

 

 

Punishment for ‹first-time leiermål› was finally ended in 1812. Third-time, same offence – ended 1902(!)

 

Reg.

 

Endret Mars 25, 2021 av Even Stormoen