Slorer, Aremark Familie

[petercwray]

I'm hoping that someone might be able to help me with my research into my Norwegian family. I recently discovered thanks to some help on this forum that my Family came from Grinder Farm in Aremark. Simon Trondsen Grinder being my direct ancestor and a book on the Grinder farm allowing me to research back to the 1600's. 

 

Simon had a daughter called Anne who married an Arve Nielsen, at the time Anne is residing at Grinder and Arve at Slorer both in Aremark. in 1801 the couple are living at Oroud in Idd, but they have four children all baptised as living in Grinder - Hans, Simon, Peder and Niels. I'm unable to find anything on the brothers Peder, Simon or Niels that i can concretely say is them - there are a few marriages that could be the sons - Niels marrying a Dorthe Gabrielsdr and a Peder marrying a Helene Olsdr but i can't confirm these as being the brothers. 

 

I can see a record of an Arve being born to a Niels at Slorer, and around the same time i can see a Torbiorn, Hans and Johanne which could be siblings - Arve baptism has no mother but the others appear to have a Mari Niels Datter. I'm wondering if these could be siblings of Arve. 

 

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7461/84 - Arve Baptism. 

 

I would also like to try and take the Slorer line back further too, I think Niels Nielsen could be Arve's father but so far no joy in finding the records to prove this. I am left wondering if there is a connection between the Slorer, Rod and Niels families. If Niels Nielsen Slorer married Mari Nielsdatter Rod - also looks like Torbiorn Nielsen Slorer married Pernille Nielsdr Rod. Brynnild Nielsen appears as a witness on many records as does Niels Nielsen Rod. 

 

I have looked on Digital Arkive and the Norwegian Libary online with a VPN, but so far i cant find anything that might help me with the Slorers!

 

Any help is appreciated.  

 

[tom askerøi]

Sorry, the couple at Ourød in Idd in the 1801 cencus is an(other?) Arve Nielsen living there with his wife Anne Svendsdatter. She's not a Simonsdatter.

 

001 Arve Nielsen - 0052 Ourød Gaard - 001 - Tellingskretsoversikt - Folketelling 1801 for 0117P Idd prestegjeld - Digitalarkivet

 

 

Endret September 29, 2021 av tom askerøi

[petercwray]

Hello, I think Svensdatter was incorrectly written as the birth records for all the children have the mother Anne Simonsdatter - everything else seems to add up.

[tom askerøi]

Great - I hope you're right. A transcription is never faultless (but the 1801 cencus is very much controlled. It's more likely that the mistake comes from the original...)

 

 

[petercwray]

I’ve seen the entry and it definitely looks like Svensdatter was written - but I wonder if this was misheard back then ! I hope so! Thankfully I have a DNA match linking me to Anne Simonsdatter so I’m a little more confident in the record!

[tom askerøi]

I've read through the confirmation pages in the church books of Idd from the start in 1810-1818 and of Aremark 1803-1818. None of the children is listed anywhere in this lists (unless my eyes fools me).

 

A digital search reveals nobody with the any of the children's names being buried 1801-1814 in Idd or Aremark.

 

Sorry for all this negativ response, but hopefully it limits the search.

 

It looks as if they moved on from Idd (shortly?) after 1801...?

 

PS 

Do you know when Anne Simonsdatter died? And/or Arve Nilsen?

 

 

Endret September 30, 2021 av tom askerøi

[petercwray]

No please don’t apologise thank you for looking.

 

thankfully I have sourced a bygdebok for Grinder farm which is ultimately where Anne Simonsdatter came from - it allows me to go back but not further down. 
 

Arve died in 1824 I believe, I haven’t yet found the death of Anne. The baptism records of the four boys are visible but nothing further beyond the marriage record of Hans to elisabeth gundersdatter. I believe Peder owned another farm in Aremark Accordingn to the book - I’ll see if I can find the name - when I looked though nothing came up! 
 

I wonder if the other brothers emigrated but no records!

[tom askerøi]

I'm looking and looking but haven't found any trace of the ones you're asking for. But I stumbled upon the burial og Arve Nilsens mother:

 

transcribed: Sigri Arvesd - Church book from Idd parish 1770-1814 (0117P) - The Digital Archive (digitalarkivet.no)

 

original: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061010030602

 

As you can see she died in 1802 - and if she, as a widow, had "your" family to help to run the farm this could very likely explain why "your" family disappeared so quickly from Orød...

Endret Oktober 1, 2021 av tom askerøi

[petercwray]

The Brother Peder I think sometimes used the surname Nielsen - in The book Slekten Far Grinder i Aremark - the nephew of Nils Trondsen - Peder Nielsen (I believe his great nephew born 1791) it says he was gifted Grinderødgarden.

 

I wonder if he just used his father Arve Nielsen’s patronym as Nielsen would be strange for a nephew of his own name was Nielsen. 
 

Sigri is living with Arve and Anne at Oroud in 1801 (where ann is recorded as Svensdatter not Simonsdatter). 

[tom askerøi]

Until this time everybody used patronymicons (and had no surnames), but slowly "adopting" their father's patronymicon (and "create" a surname) became more common.

 

It started early in and close to (bigger) towns and slower (or not at all) in rural districts - until it was the law that everybody had to have a surname in our sence of the word in 1925(!).

 

So Peder using his father's patronymicon could very well be correct - but if so he was rather early in adopting the new "fashion". (My grandad didn't do this untill the 1870s when he moved to Kristiania (Oslo)).

 

But unfortunate for us - Nils, as Peder, Anne, Hans and Simon is very very very very much more common names than Arve...

 

Endret Oktober 1, 2021 av tom askerøi

[petercwray]

Yeah I did think it was early only seen this from the late 1800’s in other members. Such a mystery as to where Peder Simon and Nils went! Thankfully Arve does have a record of marriage and his two children Hans Andreas and Else Andrine are born in F.Hald. 
 

 

[tom askerøi]

Do you mean that Arve REmarried? If so WHEN did he do so?

 

And you mean that he had two children in a secornd marriage? If so WHEN are they born/baptised?

 

And WHERE did you find it? A link (or a spesific description) would be of great help to the helper...

Endret Oktober 1, 2021 av tom askerøi

[petercwray]

Hi Tom, 

 

Sorry i was trying to reply on my phone and i confused myself with the names - heres what i have so far. 

 

Antonette Petronelle Hansen (1859-1901) - birth record - https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7420/113 entry number 45 - incorrectly transcribed as Monette - she is my great great grandmother - moved to London and died there in 1901. 

 

Her Father was Hans Andreas Hansen and mother Else Dorthea Pedersen. Their marriage entry is here - https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000009534028 and it shows his father as Hans Arvesen. Using this data i find his birth record https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000037036670 - born to Hans Arvesen and Elisabeth Gundersdr. Also the birth of a sister - Else Andrine Hansen https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000037037313 - i believe she goes on to marry and one of her descendants is Sven Elvestad the Norwegian journalist and writer. 

 

Hans Arvesen and Elisabeth Gundersdr's marriage doesnt give much away https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000009634229 - the witnesses look like a Peter Gude? and an Ole Svendsen. When i do a search for Hans Arvesen there appear to be two in Ostfold. One born 1792 and the other 1797. On the marriage the 1797 is the record for Hans marrying Elisabeth so that leads me to assume that he is the Hans Arvesen in the census entry https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01058197000420. This is where I am tied to Grinder Gard as Sigri Arvesdatter is the daughter of Arve Nielsen and Mari Mickelsdatter. She married her cousin Simon son of Tronde Andersen and Lisbeth Nilsdatter. (this is where i wonder if there is a Nils connection as Lisbeth was born at Rod, Hans Arvesen lives at Rod). 

 

Sorry for any confusion and thank you for any help you can provide. 

 

 

[tom askerøi]

I must I had my doubts about this Grinder family being your ancestors - both Hans Andreas Hansen and Hans Arvesen were sailors (titled "matros") living in harbour towns and suddenly Arve Nilsen is a soldier and farmer living in Idd which is close to the sea(*). So I have spent last 24 hours looking for any other Arve that could be the father of Hans Arvesen - first in Fredrikshald (now Halden), then in the original church books from Fredrikstad, Moss, Tønsberg - but without success.

I see that you previously have got help from Berit Knudsen. She's been a terrific helper here at DA for many, many years and she's normally right - and finally I just have to admit I can't find a better answere than hers.

 

I haven't had much time to look for Arves descendants but here's Simons marriage to Helene Olsdatter in Fredrikshald 17. oct. 1823 (#20): https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061011040178

and the baptism of their daughter Karin Andrine (born 10. sept. 1825) #5: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061011040327

 

Have a good night!

 

(*) Too tired when writing this - I meant of course ".. in Idd which is NOT close to the sea".

 

 

Endret Oktober 3, 2021 av tom askerøi

[petercwray]

Thank you! I had found this marriage but wasn’t sure that it was correct! Reassuring that you think it is the same! 
 

thanks Again, and yes Berit was super helpful

[tom askerøi]

Simon Grinder is a "Tron-son" (from the baptiseing of daughter Brynnild 1775): Simon Tronsen - Ministerialbok for Aremark prestegjeld, Aremark sokn 1745-1795 (0118P) - Digitalarkivet

Original (bottom left side): https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061018020611

 

Daughter Else baptised 1771: Simon !! - Ministerialbok for Aremark prestegjeld, Aremark sokn 1745-1795 (0118P) - Digitalarkivet

Original (bottom right side): https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061018020594

 

Married Sigri Arvesdatter 1759: Simon !! - Ministerialbok for Aremark prestegjeld, Aremark sokn 1745-1795 (0118P) - Digitalarkivet

Original: (in the middle of left page): https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061018020748

(I think you have this but to be sure...)

 

But can't find his death...

 

[tom askerøi]

Here's his death (buried 17/8-1793): Simon Tronsen - Ministerialbok for Aremark prestegjeld, Aremark sokn 1745-1795 (0118P) - Digitalarkivet

Original (3rd line from bottom left side): https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061018020721

 

61 years old - indicating a birth around 1732. The curch book starts in 1735 and I can't find him there...

 

 

 

[tom askerøi]

You probably have this - the wedding of Anne Simonsdatter and Arve Nilsen: Anne Simonsd - Ministerialbok for Aremark prestegjeld, Aremark sokn 1745-1795 (0118P) - Digitalarkivet

and in original (#19 bottom right side): https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061018020768

 

This must be Arves sister Pernille bapt. 11/11-1792: Niels Nielsen - Ministerialbok for Aremark prestegjeld, Aremark sokn 1745-1795 (0118P) - Digitalarkivet

and in original (again #19 bottom right side): https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061018020658

Father Nils Nilsen, mother Anne Svendsdatter(!).

 

Brother Thor bapt. 26/4-1795: Niels Nielsen - Ministerialbok for Aremark prestegjeld, Aremark sokn 1745-1795 (0118P) - Digitalarkivet

and the original (315 top left side): https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061018020666

 

Parents' wedding 31/1-1790: Niels Nielsen - Ministerialbok for Aremark prestegjeld, Aremark sokn 1745-1795 (0118P) - Digitalarkivet

and originally (#1/1790 right side): https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061018020769

 

Nils Nilsen' father was of course a Nils, too - probably he also was a Nilsen, and if you'd like here'e all thats in the transcribed church books from Aremark up to 1800:

Avansert personsøk - Digitalarkivet

I hope it gets through...