How to find birth record for Kari Johannesdatter (c. 1787 - 1862 in Moss) with known marriage and death records

[Ray Sarlin]

I hope that someone can help me find the birth record of my great-great-great grandmother Kari Johannesdatter.  I apologize for writing in English, but please feel free to respond in Norwegian if you wish.

 

This is the information that I have so far.

 

1.     My great great grandparents Ole Eriksen (b. Skivdalbrende in Sarpsborg 26.4.1830, bapt 10.5.1830)[1] and Marte Marie Arnesdatter (b. Svendal 4.6.1827, bapt 24.6.1827)[2] were married in Tune on 2.7.1852.[3]  They migrated with their children to the USA in 1872, where they settled in 1875 in Brainerd City, Crow Wing County, Minnesota.

 

2.     Marthe Maria’s birth record lists her parents as Arne Gabrielsen and Kari Johannesdatter.  Her marriage record also shows Arne Gabrielsen as her father.

 

3.     I checked MyHeritage, Ancestry, FamilySearch, and GENI for Arne Gabrielsen born in Østfold, Norway between 1770 and 1810.  From numerous records, I was able to find the birth record for Arne Gabrielsen.  He was born in 1777 and confirmed 1 November 1777 in Skiptvet.[4]

 

4.     Arne Gabrielsen (Age 40, c. 1777) of Sviihuset, Skiptvet married Kari Johannesdatter (Age 30, c. 1787) of Helgedahl? on 15.11.1817.[5]  This was the last of his three (or four) marriages.

 

5.     In addition to being a farmer, some of his confirmed matches on MyHeritage identify him as an artillerist and some as a tømmerfløter.

 

6.     Arne Gabrielsen died on 24.8.1856 and was buried in Moss on 31.8.1856.[6]

 

7.     Kari Johannesdatter died on 10.1.1862 and was buried in Moss on 19.1.1862.[7]  Her age given as 74-1/2 years gives an approximate birthdate of July 1787.

 

How do I now find the birth record and names of the parents of Kari Johannesdatter?  This has been my brick wall for several years.

 

Per the 1801 Norway Census and genealogy websites, 38 persons with a similar name were born between 1785 and 1790 in south-eastern Norway including Østfold, Akershus, Hedmark, Oppland, Buskerud, Vestfold, and Telemark.  Plus there are probably ones I’ve missed.

 

1.     11 of those identified had a known death date other than 10.1.1862 and can be eliminated.

2.     12 had a spouse other than Arne Gabrielsen.

3.     16 were too young (birthdate after 1788).

4.     4 were too old (birthdate before 1787).

 

Eight were born in either 1787 or 1788 in Oppland (Ostre Toten (2) and Gausdal (1)); Buskerud (Ål and Hole, one each); and Hedmark (Vinger, Stange, and Hof, one each).  Interestingly, all of these were named Kari Johansdatter, not Johannesdatter.

 

Seven others were born in 1789, five in Oppland and one each in Telemark and Hedmark.

 

This is all I have been able to find from internet research here in Australia.  I do not have access to the village books or farm books.  Can anyone help or suggest how I can proceed?

 

Thank you for your assistance.

 

Ray Sarlin

Brisbane, Australia

 

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[1] https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7498/38061/93 Item 60

[2] https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7527/38227/90 Item 16, Page 177

[3] https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/456/2966/2 Item 29

[4] https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7531/53 Item 49

[5] https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7527/197 Item 12

[6] https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/400/2551/27 Item 70

[7] https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/5739/29180/7 Item 10

[Matthias Kolberg]

I think the most likely candidate is Kari Johannesdatter, daughter of Johannes Nielsen and Kirstine Guldbrandsdatter, here at Langebraate in Svinndal in 1801:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01058210001529
 

She was baptized in Tune on 28 March 1790, born at Minge:

Tune prestekontor Kirkebøker, SAO/A-2007/F/Fa/L0003: Parish register (official) no. 3, 1781-1796, p. 86-87
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061020030353

It is not unusual to see the birth date off by a few years in the marriage and death records.

 

I notice she has a half sister called Jøran Olsdatter in the 1801 census.

Could it be the same Jøran, using the patronymic from her stepfather, who lives at Helgedal in the 1820-ies?

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000036476698

Endret Juli 24, 2022 av Matthias Kolberg

[Ray Sarlin]

Hi Matthias,

 

Thank you for your response.  I have previously reviewed your candidate.  Because I have a mining background I even investigated the abandoned lead mine at Mingerødgård Farm.

Quick link: Minge Mine, Tune, Sarpsborg, Viken, Norway (mindat.org)

 

I had also examined Kari's baptism and her parent's marriage on 24 January 1790 (https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7494/38036/11). 

 

One person who posts on Ancestry.com and has a large overlap with my ancestors also supports this particular Kari Johannesdatter Minge, but he does not list any additional sources. My primary concern is that an age of 10 years on the 1801 Census is at least two years younger than the two validated sources where her age was specified.  So this is a good suggestion that I will keep in mind.  Thank you.

 

Thank you for finding the 1801 Census for 0033 Langbraate.  I assume that "1st ægteskab" in this case (Gulbran and Joran) would refer to the wife's first marriage, while Neils Olsen is a foster child (pleiebarn), so the surname Olsen in his case could be coincidence. I will follow this up.

 

Although my 3GGM Kari Johannesdatter is not shown as either widowed or divorced, her marriage to Arne Gabrielsen was probably her first.  However, since she was 30 years old, it may have been a second or third marriage.  This is also something that may shed light on her birth.

 

Blessings,

 

Ray

Endret Juli 24, 2022 av Ray Sarlin

[Matthias Kolberg]

56 minutes ago, Ray Sarlin said:

Although my 3GGM Kari Johannesdatter is not shown as either widowed or divorced, her marriage to Arne Gabrielsen was probably her first.  However, since she was 30 years old, it may have been a second or third marriage.  This is also something that may shed light on her birth.

The marriage record specifically states that Kari was a servant maid,

”tjenestepige“, that is previously unmarried.

 

Interestingly, I see that Jøran Olsdatter of Langbraate and what I belive could be her stepfather, Johannes Nielsen from Thunøe (Tune), baptized an illegitimate son, Ole, on 30 January 1803, No. 17:

Våler prestekontor Kirkebøker, SAO/A-11083/F/Fa/L0004: Parish register (official) no. I 4, 1771-1815, p. 54
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061025010540

According to the local history book page 123, Johannes Nilsen sold Langbraate in 1804.

From: ”Våler bygdebok. 2 : Gårdshistorie for Svinndal“ by Einar J. Pedersen, 1992

 

I have not been able to trace him, or his wife Kristine Gulbrandsdatter, after that.

But possibly Johannes died as a poor man of unknown age at neighboring Bjerketvedt on 12 Sept 1835, No. 17:

Våler prestekontor Kirkebøker, SAO/A-11083/F/Fa/L0005: Parish register (official) no. I 5, 1815-1839, p. 368-369
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061025020533
 

Endret Juli 24, 2022 av Matthias Kolberg

[Ray Sarlin]

Hi again, Matthias.

 

Thank you so much for this interesting information. Unfortunately, the birth year for Kari of 1791, while close to her baptism in March 1790, is even further away from the dates given on her marriage and death records. Questions will remain until the gap of 30 years from birth to marriage is bridged.

 

I have a general question about Scandinavian marriages in the 17th and 18th centuries. Kari Johannesdr's grandaughter Emma Eriksen (1852-1940)) was born in Norway and migrated to the USA in 1870 with her parents where she met Nils Andersen (1849-1918) from Lilla Skärmnäs, Brunskog, Värmland who had migrated with his parents in 1871. The Swedish family lineage is defined back to at least 1650.  I have noticed many cases where there is a wide variance in the ages of a married couple.  In some cases, the wife is significantly older (>3 years) than the husband. Is there any significant to the age disparity in marriage other than, for example, the care of minor children on the death of one parent?

 

Also, from the Gårdshistorie Johannes Nilsen only owned Langbraate from 1800 to 1804.  Presumably he had been born and grown up there.  Was it common for farms to change hands so quickly, or did farms usually stay in one family and be passed from generation to generation?  I ask because my Finnish maternal grandfather died without an adult male heir and the farm passed into the hands of my grandmother's sister's husband who lost the farm through alcoholism.

 

Thank you again, Matthias.

 

Blessings,

 

Ray

 

 

[Matthias Kolberg]

First to the matter of age in the church records: Most people had only a rough idea of how old they were in this period of Norwegian history. As long as you were confirmed, age was of little importance in every day life. Some clergymen (not all) made an effort to check actual birth dates in their old records, if they were at hand. In cases where people moved from one parish to another, however, there was practically no way of checking these dates.

Therefore, a discrepancy of a couple of years is more the rule than not. At old age, discrepancies of five to ten years, or even more, is not unheard of.

 

When it comes to age differences between spouses, one must remember that marriages were often arranged for practical reasons in those days. You can sometimes find young men who married older widows, in order to secure a farm where they could work.

 

In your last question, your presumtion was that Johannes was born on Langbraate, however, I have not found anything to back this. He bought the farm in 1800 from Jokum Gulbrandsen according to the Gårdshisorie (Jokum may possibly be Kristines brother, I have not checked). In 1790, in the wedding record, Johannes was said to come from Minge in Tune (which is not far away, though). 
Johannes sold Langbraate for a substantial amount of money in 1804 (899 riksdaler), and we can assume he bought the farm for a similar amount in 1800, so he must have been quite well off.
You often find farms, and even lease/cotter farms(husmannsplass), go from father to son, but this was not always the case. Many families moved from farm to farm after only a few years interval.

 

 

Endret Juli 24, 2022 av Matthias Kolberg

[Ray Sarlin]

Thank you again, Matthias.  This is very clear.  Your point about the farm ownership is good.  Another answer is that it may have been owned earlier by Christina Gulbrandsdr's first husband, Ole Tallaksen Minge born 1734 in Minge, Tune, Østfold.

 

Baptized 7 November 1734 in Tune.  Source:  Church books: Tune clergy office Church books, SAO/A-2007/F/Fa/L0001: Ministerial book no. 1, 1720-1758, p. 44-45 - Scanned archives - The National Archives (digitalarkivet.no) Item 46

 

Married to Christina Gulbrandsdr. 14 July 1774 in Tune.  Source: Church books: Tune clergy office Church books, SAO/A-2007/F/Fa/L0002: Ministerial book no. 2, 1758-1781, p. 96-97 - Scanned archives - The National Archives (digitalarkivet.no) Page 97, upper right entry

 

Died 29 June 1788 in Minge.  Source: Church books: Tune clergy office Church books, SAO/A-2007/F/Fa/L0003: Ministerial book no. 3, 1781-1796, p. 226-227 - Scanned archives - The National Archives (digitalarkivet.no) Page 226, Col. 1

 

His father Tallak Minge died in Minge on 21 February 1762.

 

Johannes Nilsen married Christina Gulbrandsdr. on 14 January 1790 in Tune.  Source: Church books: Tune clergy office Church books, SAO/A-2007/F/Fa/L0003: Ministerial book no. 3, 1781-1796, p. 184-185 - Scanned archives - The National Archives (digitalarkivet.no) Page 184, Col. 1

 

So you are probably correct that Jokum Gulbrandsen was Christina's brother.  He may have received the farm from Christina's first husband Ole Tallaksen.

 

This discussion has been very helpful.

 

Blessings,

 

Ray