Grønberg in Vestby, Akershus

[Peter Hanson]

I have a Catharina Elisabeth Hansdatter from Grønberg, who married Hans Petersen/Eliasen in Oslo in 1797.  Her father was Hans Christophersen Grønberg. I have located his Jul 1727 baptismal record in Såner/Vestby local parish book (https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7534/165), along with his four siblings. The first four records do not indicate the mother's name, but the last brother's record seems to imply his mother was Marte Jensdatter (Anders at https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7534/257). All records only indicate the father to be Christopher Grønberg, so I do not know his patronymic name; there was one marriage record of a Christopher Olsen married to Anne Fransdatter in 1724 (https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7534/134) which could be the correct timing prior to the first daughter in 1725. Otherwise the baptism records typically had godparents/witnesses from the nearby Knalstad, Pepperstad, and Skog farms. I strongly suspect Christopher's father to be Ole Toresen since that name, followed by Grønberg, is common on most of the children's baptisms. I have another branch from Skedsmo and a long time ago was able to find a "history" of the farm which noted ownership names over several periods....anyone know where I could find similar for the Grønberg farm?

[Peter Hanson]

I searched for Grønberg in the forum archives and see that I asked about this family back in 2012. However, I wasn't asking the same specific question so I will leave my post asking about info on the farm.

 

There were previous discussions about Hans Christophersen's skifte, and I do know the listed children's names. However, can someone let me know if the document gives any mention of who the mother to the children would have been? Thanks!

 

SAO, Oslo skifterett, H/Ha/L0013a: Skifteprotokoll, 1795-1806, s. 373b-374a
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/sk20081217310384

 

[Peter Hanson]

In addition to my question if the wife of Hans is noted in the skifte (record link noted above), I am curious if it notes what his occupation would have been (if other than Farmer).

[Matthias Kolberg]

 

On 1/31/2024 at 9:44 PM, Peter Hanson said:

I have a Catharina Elisabeth Hansdatter from Grønberg, who married Hans Petersen/Eliasen in Oslo in 1797.

Catharina Elisabeth Hansdatter Grønberg married Elias Pedersen in 1797.

Bottom right corner:

Oslo domkirke Kirkebøker, SAO/A-10752/F/Fa/L0005: Parish register (official) no. 5, 1787-1806, p. 98-99
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061005020054

 

Hans Grønneberg is listed as widower in the «skifte». His diseased wife’s name, and his profession is not revealed, as far as I can see.

 

But his seventh child, Catharina, is now said to be married to Anders Feldhammer in Lørenskoven. 
 

She married Anders Borgersen Fieldhammer under Haneborg on October 3, 1799
Skedsmo prestekontor Kirkebøker, SAO/A-10033a/F/Fa/L0006: Parish register (official) no. I 6, 1767-1807
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061101050133

They can be found on Haneborg in the 1801 census,

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01058224001941

 

Endret Februar 3 av Matthias Kolberg

[Peter Hanson]

Thank you, Matthias. I was wrong in saying she married Hans. Hans was her and Elias' son. He went by Hans Eliasen when young (until his mom married twice more), but used Hans Pettersen when older (except one daughter's records used the former name for her father).  Anyway, I spent the last two nights looking through Vestby records and found several that included Hans Christophersen (or various farm names), but other than Chritopher none matched the children's names in the skifte. Anyway, I will keep searching for a "history" of Gronneberg.

[Matthias Kolberg]

Here is Hans Christopher Gronberg living in Christiania (Oslo) with his daughter Marthe Willumsen in the 1801 census.

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01058232001222

He is here 73 years old and without occupation (“Uden næringswej”)

[Matthias Kolberg]

I noticed that the oldest son, Friderich Grønneberg, was living in Vordinborg, Denmark.

 

I searched for the family there, and I think I have found all of Hans Christophersens children born in Copenhagen between 1757 (Fridrich Christian) and 1770 (Cathrine Elisabeth)

The mother is Anne Cathrine Torgersdatter

 

https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&q.anyDate.from=1750&q.anyDate.to=1775&q.fatherGivenName=Hans&q.fatherSurname=Christ* gr*berg&q.motherGivenName=Anne cath*&q.motherSurname=Torge*&q.recordCountry=Denmark

Endret Februar 3 av Matthias Kolberg

[Matthias Kolberg]

The baptism of Catharine Elisabeth on 22 April 1770 in the Garnison Church of Copenhagen

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17114961#150064,24853769

[Matthias Kolberg]

Friderich Christians baptism 22 October 1757 in Trinitatis Church of Copenhagen

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=157744#157744,26471894

Hans Christophersen, Garder til Hest (mounted guard)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Horse_Guards_(Denmark)

 

 

Endret Februar 3 av Matthias Kolberg

[Peter Hanson]

Oh wow! Thanks so much. What made you look there?

Hans married ? and had Catharina Elizabeth, who married Elias Pedersen as you know. They had Hans, who married Mari Nilsdatter. Her grandfather was born in Frestrup (south Denmark) to Christian Nielsen whose father was a Lieutenant in Danish Army.

So, I do know the Norway-Denmark union, but was it common for "Norwegians" to join the Danish horse guard...or were they combined anyway?

[Peter Hanson]

Matthias, I missed your earlier post. I see you noticed where he was in Denmark and that led you to that area. Thanks for the extra research! (I only know a few Dano-Nor words, and not great with the script, so I only muddle through records)

[Peter Hanson]

sorry to keep posting on my own thread, but figured I'd share the Vestby baptism records that I THOUGHT might be fitting before Matthias found better things. I simply looked for Hans Christophersen (or a farm name), children's names who matched the skifte (only Christopher was found), and reference to Grønneberg.

possible marriage: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7535/32

Maren - https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7535/36

Joran - https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7535/42

Christopher Nielsen (mother was Maren, sister to Hans C, and think Hans was a witness) - https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7535/57

Christopher Hansen - https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7535/105

Anna Sophia (another name on skifte) - https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7535/106

another Christopher - https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7535/120

Maren, daughter of Hans Fagenholt (same farm as in others) - https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7535/133

and a few more children of a Hans Bjornistad who had Gronneberg witnesess....

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7535/162

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7535/168

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7535/179

 

anyway, I am going to search through the Danish records closer, but wanted to note these previous thoughts...

 

(I think I am not awake yet...I see Matthias already said he found ALL the children. This posting of old thoughts is meaningless...but I can only see where to edit rather than delete. Sorry for taking up space)

Endret Februar 3 av Peter Hanson
oops

[Matthias Kolberg]

On 2/3/2024 at 11:17 AM, Matthias Kolberg said:

The baptism of Catharine Elisabeth on 22 April 1770 in the Garnison Church of Copenhagen

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17114961#150064,24853769

Here is an attempted transcription:

 

d. 22de (April 1770). Faderen Hans Christophersen, aft. Moderen Anna Catharina Torgersdr. Barnet Catharina Elisabeth

Test. Mr Søren Klokker, Mr Jeremias Klocker, Mr Joh Ernst Hempel, Me Elise Margr. Orm, Jfr Cathr. Hempel 

Endret Februar 4 av Matthias Kolberg

[Matthias Kolberg]

On 2/3/2024 at 4:04 PM, Peter Hanson said:

I see Matthias already said he found ALL the children.

One of the children from the «skifte» is still missing, No 4 Christopher Grønneberg.

He should be the youngest of the four boys.

 

The children I found in Copenhagen in the previous post were  

 

Friderich Christian, 22 October 1757 

Albrecht Christian, 10 February 1763

Twins, Johan and Martha, 27 August 1765

Anna Sophia, 1 March 1768

and Catharina Elisabeth, 22 April 1770

 

I have later also found another Marthe, baptized on 19 February 1761

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYYJ-D2Q

however, she most likely died in infancy, or at least before her sister Martha was born in 1765.

 

I would expect that Christopher was born around 1772, based on the birth dates of the other children, but I have so far not found his baptism.

 

Endret Februar 4 av Matthias Kolberg

[Peter Hanson]

thanks for the clarification. I think I found Christopher in the same Danish church as the "other" children (not Friedrich Christian)...it was around 1755. The difference was that it did not note Gronberg, and the mother was Anne Torersdatter. I assumed maybe just a misspelling of Torgersdatter by the transcriber. However, I was searching on my phone last night and had issues zooming in on the record. I plan to check today to see if he'd be too early (also seemed unlikely he was not listed first in the skifte if not the oldest).

[Matthias Kolberg]

Yes, Christopher born in 1753 and baptized October 22 is definitively a possibility.

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17114961#150069,24855251
 

Christopher’s father is listed as Hans Christophersen of “Obrist Hobens Comp(agnie) Garde til Hest” (the royal horse guard)

And according to the naming traditions, Hans Christophersen’s first male child should be named Christopher.

 

But it is strange that he is listed fourth in the probate record, and not first. Maybe it is because his whereabouts were unknown.

It is also possible that the first Christopher died, and that a second Christopher is the youngest brother.

Endret Februar 4 av Matthias Kolberg

[Peter Hanson]

Thank you for locating it! Familysearch is working oddly for me. I put in Han* Christo* and An* To* as parents for any children in Denmark between 1745-1780 and it does not locate your latest Marthe or Christopher...so I'm using the direct links you've sent.

[Matthias Kolberg]

The mother’s patronymic is sometimes written Tho*

[Peter Hanson]

 

This 1755 one for Jøran still strikes me as interesting. Hans Christophersen's sister was Maren (https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7534/142). She married a Niels and remained on the Grønneberg farm. A Hans Grønneberg was witness to their son Christopher's baptism in 1756 (https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7535/57). A Hans Christophersen had daughter Jøran baptized in 1755 (https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7535/42) and Nils and Maren Grønneberg were witnesses. I wonder if my Hans that was in Copenhagen in 1753 (Chistopher) and 1757 (Friedrich) was back in Vestby during this timeframe.

[Matthias Kolberg]

I found this military record from the 1st Sønnafjeldske dragonregiment Livkompaniet, were a Wagtmester Hans Christophersen was dismissed as Lieutenant on 1st October 1754.

 

Kommanderende general (KG I) med Det norske krigsdirektorium, RA/EA-5419/E/Ea/L0475: 1. Sønnafjelske dragonregiment, 1663-1759, p. 387
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru20111020611047
 

 

The dragoon regiment is a regiment of mounted infantry soldiers, and the liv (life) company is a guard unit.
 

 

Could the reason for his dismissal be that he was offered a new position in the Kings horse guard in Copenhagen?

 

Endret Februar 5 av Matthias Kolberg

[Peter Hanson]

Interesting! So it seems he was Norwegian, and was born and raised in Vestby...and according to this, was in the Norwegian regiment at one time. Was it "common" for the Kings guard to recruit from both Danish and Norwegian soldiers? (I just finished browsing through parish entries in Vestby and didn't find his marriage to Anne Cathrine Torgersdtr. Next, I'll look for her in Danish records...and wonder if she was Danish-born.

[Matthias Kolberg]

20 hours ago, Peter Hanson said:

Was it "common" for the Kings guard to recruit from both Danish and Norwegian soldiers?

I do not have any statistics to show to, but in my research I have encountered Norwegian soldiers in the King’s guard in Copenhagen several times. One of them being the father of the Danish/Norwegian painter Johannes Flintoe; Abraham Nielsen.

The King of Denmark was also King of Norway in title.

[Peter Hanson]

On 2/3/2024 at 5:54 AM, Matthias Kolberg said:

Friderich Christians baptism 22 October 1757 in Trinitatis Church of Copenhagen

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=157744#157744,26471894

Hans Christophersen, Garder til Hest (mounted guard)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Horse_Guards_(Denmark)

 

 

Matthias, can you tell me what is noted after Anna's name and before Friedrich's. I wonder if reference to where she came from.

[Matthias Kolberg]

Ao (anno) 1757 d. 22 Octobr havde Hans Christophersen, Garder til Hest, og Hustru Anne Cathrine Torgesdaatter i Borregaden et Barn til Daaben kaldet Friderich Christian

 

Borregaden is most likely Borgergaden, a street in Copenhagen a few blocks away from the royal palace

[Peter Hanson]

thank you. I thought it was something like that, and when I tried to google-translate I ended up with "residential street"....so figured it wasn't a town, but wanted to make sure deciphered it correctly. I tried to find anything on Anna's death record to see if noted where she was from. No luck there. You helped me get more info I had before, so thanks again!